Will the "Modern Era" ever end?

Well, we have been in the Modern era for 43 years, but we were in the prewar era for 41 years, so it has not been that incredibly long. However, technology has changed so much during the last 43 years, so I agree that something needs to be done to end the modern era, but who makes that decision? TCA? LCCA? Lionel?

 

And where do we do the change? My choice would be 2000, since it's the new millennium.

I guess I agree with you, the 1970 engines were far different than the 2000 engines.

Perhaps the arrival of TMCC in 95ish should be a start of a new era, at least for Lionel

The "Command Control Era" 

 

The fact that the trains themselves have undergone drastic changes in the 43 years from 1970 to now was indeed why I wondered no new eras had been conjured up yet. I also thought about how the Prewar Era lasted a similar 41 years but again, not counting the introduction of the scale Hudson the trains themselves remained mostly the same through that era.

The command control era may be too exclusive. Even the conventional engines benefited by higher detail and realistic sounds

I was half-joking when I said that, but I do like the system of defining eras by ownership of the company. MPC Era, Wellspring Era, Kugn Era, etc. The trains themselves did seem to undergo significant changes with each change of ownership.

If we are considering the hobby of 3 rail trains as a whole it would matter little who owns Lionel to be fair to MTH, Atlas, Weaver and Williams. You will notice that many already refer to the 'pre-Bachmann' Williams trains.

 

It would follow that someday there might be MTH trains called 'The post-Wolf' era.

 

I like the suggestion of 2000 or possibly the 'Command Control' era.

I suppose I should have mentioned I am indeed only referring to Lionel with these "eras" as defined in most Lionel reference literature.

In light of dramatic changes in the hobby over the past 20 years or so, I would prefer to see the eras designated by terms more broad (and encompassing) than those applied to a single firm.

 

Prewar works fine for the distant past, prior to WWII, as does postwar for the period up to the end of the original Lionel Corp.  But the period(s) from 1970 on, if they merit any special divisions at all, should probably be more carefully defined to be more inclusive and representative of the hobby's evolution rather than the evolutionary timeline of a single firm.

 

But eras, to the extent they exist, are generally defined by the publishers of reference material initially, and adopted by the collecting community over time.

 

It is generally true, though, that the so-called "modern era" is now too broad in terms of the four-plus decades covered, and not particularly useful. 

 

Just my opinion. 

Computerized era - while there is still conventional the manufacturing and the electronics are more heavily computerized than the 70 & 80's stuff.

 

Jim

I would suggest we call the new modern era as the Digital Era that started in 1995 with TMCC and 2002 with MTH DCS PS2.

Rather than computerized or digital, I would suggest Technology Era which would cover the advent of digital sounds and command control as well as the trend for integrating and evolving the way we run trains with other technologies like tablets and smart phones, etc.

 

Of course, that kind of makes the designation of "Modern Era" less appropriate for the stuff made in the 70's, 80's and early 90's based on the definition of "modern."  Perhaps it need re-assigned, as well.  Maybe "Post Lionel" as it is after the original Lionel ceased train production, and it is during this time that new manufacturers like MTH and others stepped up to compete and in doing so, improve the O gauge world.

 

I guess only time will really tell.

 

Andy

How about the RA# era or Disposable era?  Sorry couldn't resist.

 

Sunrise

Well here's the thing, guys, the current stuff will always be the "Modern Era."  If anything is going to get renamed, it's going to be to cordon off some period of time between "postwar" and now.  If I had to pick something, I'd call it the "Pre-MTH era," because the competition between MTH and Lionel was the real game-changer.

Let's cut to the chase.  At the end of the day it's the credit card era like we've never seen before.

How about the 'Chinese Era' .....

Or perhaps the 'Offshore Era' 

For many years anything made in 1970 or after has been considered to be Modern Era. I now see an increasing number of people defining the Modern Era as 1987 to present.

To my mind the modern era will always be 1970 and beyond, but there are subsets of the Modern era, such as "MPC","LTI",and "LLC"

 

http://local.trainz.com/eras/modern.html

Defining toy train production by "era" really only had relevance back when collecting dominated this segment of the hobby and when production was being thoroughly researched and documented.  Truth is, that is no longer the case today so there really is no need to even try to assign the concept of era to anything beyond prewar, postwar, and perhaps MPC.

This is an interesting question and thread.

 

I think the term "modern" in any context like this is a moving target with a fuzzy interpretation going back in time.  Only something made this year is truly 100% modern something older is not entirely and eventually, not at all. 

 

Having thought about this a lot in my work and having to have a non-BS way of defining it, we came up with the following: "modern" means that period during which features and performance in the market or fro the technology did not significantly (2 Stddevs) overlap with what was available before.  For example, "economy" cars today get between about 44 and 100+ mpg.  There was a time when "economy" meant maybe 34 to 46 - the best then is equal to the worst now, sort of, somewhere around there is the transition in my mind to "not modern." When I do this at work we do statistical analysis of sales, etc., and adjust, as I say, to 2 stddevs point.

 

With respect to toy trains, that is about 10-12 years, I think.  I have some TMCC and PS1 locos from around then that run as smoothly and sound as good as the lower end of what is offered today. 

Well put.

I'm sure some modern era Lionel collectors are still out there,  I would think today given the enormous amount of product available, most folks who do collect it contain it to smaller segments of the market.

Joe

 

If the so-called Modern Era is getting out of hand, needs some bifurcation...or better..., how about "Post Y2K" era?  It might be a rather hobby-benign point-in-time divide for price guide categorization, anyway.

 

Established divides...Pre-war, Post-war...being more traumatically oriented, heralding an event that the world can readily relate to but having absolutely nothing to do with the hobby itself, we could also follow on with a "Post-9/11" era, I suppose.

 

But neither of the above seem to embrace the major technology and marketing shifts of the hobby associated with Pre- and Post-War designations. 

 

"Modern" is, indeed, a rather nebulous term for product categorization purposes.  It's certainly losing any value () to this hobby the longer it survives. 

 

Maybe we could put some pizazz into the open-ended term!...You know, something that the younger generations...our future...could relate to.  How about something based on what Buzz Lightyear famously proclaimed: "To infinity,...and beyond!!"??

 

After all, this hobby segment...O3R...is most certainly A Toy Story!

 

Isn't it?

 

KD

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>>Established divides...Pre-war, Post-war...being more traumatically oriented, heralding an event that the world can readily relate to but having absolutely nothing to do with the hobby itself, we could also follow on with a "Post-9/11" era, I suppose.<<

 

Not that it matters today but if you're talking Lionel specific, not modern era trains in general, I would guess the very best divide would be to use the two natural finite era's in Lionels production timeline. . 1970-2001 when Lionel the iconic manufacturer produced all its trains in America and post 2001 when Lionel subcontracted all its production and became just another American marketing blip.

Joe 

Regardless of what semi-official terms are adopted by the fanbase at large, 1970-1995 will always be a distinct and defining timeframe for the hobby in my mind. The advent of alternative control methods meant that expectations, equipment, pricing, and design approach all changed dramatically.

Moving from variable to constant track voltage fundamentally changed what one can do/accomplish on a layout. For me, the "modern era" will be 1995-present until some other dramatic change comes along, e.g. a change in ownership or new control system (telepathy?)

The “Modern Era” ended in 2000.

 

The underlying trends of the incorporation of advanced electronics (command control systems such as TMCC and DCC) into model trains, the drive for more prototypically correct modeling detail, and (above all) the shift of manufacturing to Asia had their near simultaneous origins in the mid 1990’s. In order to economically accommodate the first two market drivers, the industry had to utilize lower cost manufacturing facilities overseas. The troika of desired product attributes and an efficient means of executing them became overwhelmingly dominant in the industry by 2001.

 

Because one has not a cataclysmic event (world war, or the complete financial collapse of Gilbert and Lionel) to mark a period, the confluence of three very significant manufacturing and marketing factors in conjunction with the change of Millennium provides a convenient historical dividing line. Marking the époque in this manner also has the virtue of not being specific to a single manufacturer, but rather to trends and practices in the industry as a whole.

 

For now, feel free to call the period we are in the “Post-Modern Era” if you desire a label. Sometime in the future – it may be a quarter century - the collecting community, which is the portion of the hobby that is interested in provenance, originality, manufacturing, and marketing history will likely arrive at a revised name for the 1970 – 2000 period, as well as the one we are in now.

 

I believe that Joe has it, in the main, correct.

 

Bob

I think that JC642.

 

I think it is important to note when the manufacturing went overseas.  That fuzzy period when Lionel, Weaver had some manufacturing in the USA, but companies like MTH started overseas production driving other manufactures to subcontract production overseas.  That was a milestone.

 

Maybe we should refer to the period of time since the advent of TMCC/Legacy/DCS as the "post modern era"?

as Allen suggested, viewing this in a much broader scope.......

 

Post collector era?

 

Pre-Apocalypse era?

 

Self Absorbed era?

 

Post consumer era?  tt

How about from 1995 or 2000 forward  we call it the "Digital era"

Well, I view the "early digital era" as about 1996 to 2005 or so.  There is a distinct improvement once Legacy and PS2 came out - around 2006 with the first Legacy maybe, but particularly with Legacy since about 2010 or so, just much much better, so I view that as "modern" and much better - which as I said earlier, in my book modern is always a moving target -- the period ending now.

Bob is correct.

 

Call it whatever you care to at the present time, but an accepted definition of any more recent eras beyond postwar and (perhaps) MPC will not be made until those who document the history of the hobby come to some agreement on labels.  That will most certainly not be decided by participants on an online forum, but rather by those who take the time and effort to properly, accurately, and comprehensively research and record production.

 

At this point in time, nobody, to the best of my knowledge, has undertaken that formidable effort, and I really don't see anyone willing and able to do so in the near future.

 

The prewar Lionel era, on the other hand, continues to receive a great deal of academic-oriented scrutiny from Bruce Greenberg and a study group of knowledgeable collectors working with him, and I can assure prewar collectors and enthusiasts that what comes out of that effort will be of significant benefit to their area of interest.  Several of his findings have already appeared in the TCA Quarterly, with, I'm sure, far more to come.  THAT is the way research into this segment of the hobby needs to be done, regardless of era.

EXACTLY, as I stated in a prior post, there is very little thorough research/knowledge of toy trains produced after 1969.  Yes, there have been a few MONEY GRABS by a couple authors, consisting in some cases of books of train numbers and random photos, but nothing equal in quality to the Greenberg Books.  At this point way too much has been produced by all the manufacxturers, and too many people have passed on to provide a valid first-person account...VERY SAD!!!

>>How about from 1995 or 2000 forward  we call it the "Digital era"<<

 

The electronic age of Lionel began way back in time with the advancement in E units. It has progressed to where it is today by way of natural evolution.

Nothing digital in trains today warrants the definition of change as much as the sheer dropoff in collecting Lionel that took off with the demise of Lionel the American train manufacturer in 2001.   Lionel had officially entered the throw away generation of offshore production .   

For good or bad, the dynamics of that change in 2001 still resonates today in way how most folks view their train purchases.

Collectors in 2001 correctly assumed quick train obsolence loomed large. Collecting the endless flow of ever improving, oversupplied imported trains seemed pointless.

Joe   

 

Whomever is lumping everything into just a Modern era is not paying attention.

 

The new cars and Locomotives being built since 1985 by Lionel Trains Inc. have been mostly true O Scale proportions. A smaller number of newly designed cars and locomotives have been traditional in proportions. 

 

Traditional Era 

 

Scale Era

 

 

Andrew

For Lionel, I don't think the label modern era as a sort of generic term works. I would say at this point, ownership of the name is a more accurate filing system. Each era was fairly distinct in terms of products, innovations, marketing etc. 

Bruce

Great discussion everyone.

 

After reading all the above, while I still somewhat like the system of defining era by ownership, I find myself agreeing more and more with the concept of drawing a single line on the advent of command control and offshore production. As someone else said earlier, these were the most significant events for Lionel since 1970 and all of them took place in a tidy space of between 1995 and 2001. Modern and Post-Modern does have a nice ring to it. We could also be in an "Import Era".

Considering how many times I have had to return new items using USPS, I would suggest calling the current age: Post Modern

I don't see the need. It's like airliners. There was the prop age then the jet age. Well we've had jets for so long there's no reason to call it the jet age anymore. Don

Thinking about it a little more, perhaps we could call it the "scale", "true scale" or scale/digital" era since these are the two defining characteristics of O gauge trains today be it 2 or 3 rail.