Hello all Im new to lionel and have been using the new CW80 that work here in the uk on 50hz.I only run conventional and was wondering if the old PW ZW will run on 50hz thanks in advance
vince
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YES! They work fine. Used several for years. MTH Z-4000 works fine also.
Vince,
Yes, a PW ZW will run fine on our 50Hz after it is stepped down to 110V. It may get a tad warmer than if it is on 60Hz but I wouldn't worry. I have seen them run here for 8 hours solid at the Lionel show in Ilkley for many years now.
I run my AF 30B's which are the closest cousin to the ZW and also had no problems.
Regards,
Neil
Thats great thanks a lot for the information
As long as you don't plug it in to a 220 VAC 50hz socket, it should work with no issues at 110/120 VAC 50Hz since it's just two coils. In fact, it may even run slightly cooler, but I doubt you would be able to notice. The primary runs on 110/120 VAC side that steps the voltage down to the secondary at a safer 18 / 20 VAC output. There is no electronics involved in the transformer that cares about the frequency. Post War locomotives should behave completely fine.
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Hi Vince,
Welcome to the forum.
The old PW ZW will work ok on 50Hz. However you may find it gets a bit warmer than when it is running on 60Hz.
This may be more noticeable if you are powering a lot of trains or the ZW is on for a long period of time, such as at a show.
I have heard some great story's about the modifications some of the guys in the Lionel Collectors Club UK had to make to PW ZW's. These included drilling cooling holes in the cases and directing desk fans on them while running show layouts!
They can't get over how cool my example runs on 60Hz.
Regards
Nick
For a given power level, you need more iron in a transformer core when the frequency is reduced. The 60Hz ZW is get significantly warmer when run on 50 Hz, hence the extra holes and fans.
If you use a 60Hz transformer on 50Hz, the magnetism in the core has higher peaks on each half of the sinewave, and this causes some of the extra heat. The current to magnetize the core is also higher, and that also adds heat.
"Economy" transformers often have the least iron necessary for the rated operating frequency. When they run at a lower frequency, the iron will actually go into magnetic saturation. When this happens, the current in the primary coil spikes, overheating the transformer to destruction.
The ZW apparently has some "reserve" iron, but running at 110V will be better than 120V to minimize heat. The ZW was designed in the days when 115V was the norm, as indicated by the ZW's label.
Lionel had transformers for 25Hz, 50Hz, and 60Hz, as well as 115V and 220-250V. The RX transformer was designed for 25Hz and higher. Operating at a higher frequency doesn't change performance much, but there are some differences.
(25Hz was common in the Northeast because the original Niagara Falls power plants produced 25Hz power. See wikipedia for details. I was born in Buffalo, but after the days of 25Hz for residential use.)
For what is is worth: The Lionel Service Manual states that most Lionel transformers are for 110-125 volts, 60 cycles only.
It specifically states that the VW and V are both OK on 50 cycles.
As Dale notes, the RWM was specifically made for 110-125 volts, 50 cycles.
There was also an Rwm250, made for 220-250 volts, 50 cycles.
All this is just from the manual. I have no experience with using transformers with 50 cycle power.
Originally Posted by C W Burfle:
For what is is worth: The Lionel Service Manual states that most Lionel transformers are for 110-125 volts, 60 cycles only.
It specifically states that the VW and V are both OK on 50 cycles.
As Dale notes, the RWM was specifically made for 110-125 volts, 50 cycles.
There was also an Rwm250, made for 220-250 volts, 50 cycles.
All this is just from the manual. I have no experience with using transformers with 50 cycle power.
I think it is safe to say that those of us that are this side of the pond have tossed the manual aside and just got on with what we have researched and proven ourselves for many a year. It is a fact that Lionel and Flyer 110V/60Hz transformers will and do work over here. We are fully aware that they do run a bit warmer as Nick and myself have stated. Nick has invested in a setup that allows him to run 110V/60Hz and proven that there is a difference in heat produced from the two frequencies, which we all knew about anyway but it is actually nice to have the comparison first hand. We have run these transformers for up to 8 hours at shows and although some people have made some mods to improve air circulation we have proven that they are more than capable of doing what we ask from them. Regards, Neil
Thank you all for all your help now I know I can buy a ZW and know it will work.The little CW80's are running great now lionel have altered them for 50hz but really like the looks and power of the ZW .Thanks again for all your input
vince
