Williams

Baggage car from the five car Pullman set.  REA logos were added.

Observation car from the five car Pullman set has been repainted.

Like everything in O Scale (1:48), it varies.  Jerry Williams offered the first ready to run 'scale' length passenger cars many moons ago.  At 17 1/2 inches long, the first heavyweight set had one Pullman observation car and three Pullman coaches with one REA baggage car. White box with black graphics.  So nice, a new MTH baggage car sure resembles Jerry's first baggage car.  His freight cars are a tad small, others in this group know the lineage of them.  His engines were known for their pulling power and reliability and were lacking in details.  I think he had a couple of articulated engines, they were sweet.  John

Some are scale, some are 'semi-scale'....they are known for simple electronics and reliability.  They are controlled by a traditional transformer.   I have 7 and have NO complaints

I forgot to "rank" them in the O scale hierarchy, as you requested.  This is subjective, as I rank them as my favorites!!

they are no frills runners as John says.....reliable, well built trains.....I have a bunch of Williams....solid performers, they make scale and semiscale. I was scared the quality of Williams was gonna go down the tubes when Bachmann took over but they have not....I have some Williams berks and some Williams by Bachmann berks......no difference to me....Bachmann has done a good job with the Williams line IMO...

Quality is generally good, but I have an N&W 746 knockoff that a drive wheel spun. And of course it's the leading set, and they are pretty much impossible to remove and fix.

Jim

I have the Williams scale GG-1, it's actually a decent looking unit.  I upgraded it to TMCC & sound and added decent lighting.

To me anyway there is 3 time frames for Williams trains. The beginning where he had a sound system one might consider  lot better than the true blast II they went to. The original had the sounds of motor and a simple crew talk as you started out. I have a southern set F-3 ( I think) Then you have the True blast period ( which I did not like as it had a preset of crossing ( horn/whistle) you had no control of the horn/whistle. And then now which I have not experience but have not heard any bad about it yet. It too is suppose to have engine sounds but what else I'm not sure.  

I also have 4 scale Williams ( true blast period) GG1's The Williams B&O freight set, Williams steam girls set. As state Williams are very reliable trains. Most are in the semi scale size but they also offer some in scale. The ones now that Bachmann is putting out I'm not sure on the size. 

I have a Williams scale GG1 and it is a great runner!  I bought it new just before the time Williams was sold to Bachman.  It pulls very well and is super reliable!  I also have a Williams scale brass camelback ( purchased new on E bay )  and it too is a great runner and strong puller!  

My purchases of  Williams by Bachman locomotives, most are scale..... B&O Hudson, 2 FM Trainmasters, the 44 tonner ( Lionel version ) , F3 AA,  Baldwin Locomotive Works R 16 sharks, Pennsy Also PA 1 AA,  D&H PA 1 ABA ( with 2 powered A units ).  In my experience 4 of these locomotives were mechanically defective out of the box and immediately had to go back to the retailer for replacement.  I'm just stating my experience and don't mean to bash WbB.  From my perspective ... if  WbB stepped up their quality control game, they would have one of the greatest products in the hobby as per their price point.  

The F3 AA units were my most recent purchase and I made sure the dealer tested them first before I brought them home.  They worked fine right out of the box and continue to work fine on my railroad today.  

At the Williams and WbB price point, superbly well detailed locomotives are not to be expected.  I find these locomotives to be detailed well enough for my  needs.  As many on this forum have done ( as Gunnrunner John has mentioned ) Williams and WbB locomotives are easily upgradable to TMCC/Legacy and or Protosound 3.0   One day I hope to have some of my Williams and WbB locos upgraded. 

I also have several scale original Williams passenger cars and they continue to be very good quality and very reliable.  

I recommend WbB, however, if at all possible make sure to test their locos before bringing them home. ( as a matter of fact test any manufacture's loco before leaving the retailer )  Doing this may save you lots of frustration.  

trumptrain posted:

 if  WbB stepped up their quality control game, they would have one of the greatest products in the hobby as per their price point. 

I'm not entirely sure about that.  The Williams MSRP is absurd for many of their products, you can buy command equipped stuff in the same ballpark.  The saving grace is the frequent blowout sales that people have on the Williams line.  Their original MSRP on the scale GG-1 was $424.99!  I see them "on sale" for $299.99, still a bit pricey for a conventional unit.  I bought this one at York several years back NIB, $120 at a Williams Trainworld blowout sale.  That made it a tempting purchase.

That Trainland blowout of the Williams scale GG1 was unbelievable.  I would have purchased at least one but my layout is more traditional size and even if they would negotiate my curves I think they would have looked out of place.

are williams trains typically scale size(1:48) or is it buyer beware. How do williams trains rank in o scale hierarchy?

Well Some are and some are not. The Williams FA-1, U33C, RS3, GP30, Gp38, F7 and 44T,  are scale sized. The Scale GG1 are scale sized. The E7's are short in length. The NW2 postwar repro and SD45 are too wide in the body for scale.

Careful of the Lionel Repros, they are NOT scale sized. 18" passenger cars are NOT scale length sized but the 20' Superliners are scale sized [ if you can get over the minimum detailing] but the Trainmaster is scale sized.

In Hierarchy, they are more toys than serious collector material with exception of the Samhongsa years and the brass steam engines.

Williams trains are bulletproof

bill pierce posted:

Williams trains are bulletproof

Well....

I'm looking for a motor now for a Williams brass GS4, the original shorted and took out the Cruise Commander.  No bullets were involved, but then none were needed.

The older Williams stuff sometimes had "brand-X" unmarked motors, this is one that's a case in point.  Not a single mark on it anywhere to tell me who the manufacturer is.  This is not the first time I've had issues with similar motors in older Williams stuff.

Best bang for the buck in the hobby....great runners and great graphics....

"The Williams MSRP is absurd for many of their products, you can buy command equipped stuff in the same ballpark. "

Absolutely correct - and their die-cast steamers are among the worst runners out there - unless you want to go 200 mph - plus I have seen some real durability issues with them. The exception is their relatively recent generic 4-6-0, which is geared better than most $1000 locos. I have one, upgraded - didn't even need the Cruise.

One must be aware that Williams has had a long and varied life, re-inventing itself more than once. It once sold some of the best bargains in scale brass steamers ever offered (Samhongsa-built), back in the late '80's - mid 90's (themselves preceded by some poor-quality brass - not the same builder), then had the brass Masterpiece Series - superb detailing - then went into mostly toy-ish things, as it is today...yet even some of the modern things are 1:48, nicely-done models - I have a few - but worth it only if on sale, as mentioned above.

"Williams" can mean almost anything you'd like - from Standard Gauge repros to scale 2-6-6-4's to awkward sub-scale steamers to nice scale Alco FA1/FB1's to sub-scale Alco FA2's. Always fun with them. Just be careful.