Williams

Williams engines are like a crowbar.  Not a lot of detail, very strong and do not feel hot after running for an hour.   John

Conventional

All Williams products are conventional only from the factory. IIRC the Williams RS3 is former K-Line tooling. It is a scale loco to the best of my knowledge and actually better detailed then most of the earlier Williams products. Sadly it and most of the Williams products are not currently in production. Parts are very hard to come by for their products. Something to keep in mind should a problem arise with it in the future.

Thanks guys for the quick responses. I appreciate it.

@rattler21 posted:

...very strong and do not feel hot after running for an hour.

Just an hour? I run Williams diesels & electrics all day long without a worry.

Merlin, get yourself a TMCC set up and add a powermaster. Then you can run in conventional mode using a cab1 controller.

@Mike D posted:

Sadly it and most of the Williams products are not currently in production.

Since when is Williams not in production?  Doesn't WBB field a big roster?  All of the major retail sources, particularly sponsors to this forum, are currently selling them.

Mike

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Since when is Williams not in production?  Doesn't WBB field a big roster?  All of the major retail sources, particularly sponsors to this forum, are currently selling them.

Mike

Good questions. My assumption has been the WBB isn't producing much new stock, but I don't know that for a fact. Just haven't seen many new models and inventory seems more and more scarce.

These are great products that are easily upgraded with a cruise commander.

But not inexpensively, especially with recent ERR price increases.

Mike

@Mike D posted:

Sadly it and most of the Williams products are not currently in production. Parts are very hard to come by for their products. Something to keep in mind should a problem arise with it in the future.

I have a few Williams engines and they run good if they hold together.  I have had the truck frames of a FM and an Amtrak diesel disintegrate in my hands.  After a year of searching York and other part sources I gave up. Repair and replacement parts are very hard if not impossible to find regardless of what else is said on this thread.  The two major parts sources in Harrisburg and Frederick are now gone.

I don't buy Williams, K line, or MTH motive power without considering the prospect of having to throw it away or use it as a dummy.

If you are looking at the Williams engine for its roadname then go for it but if you are just looking for a nice RS-3 then a  K-Line engine will fit the bill. Many can be had for well under 150 bucks with TMCC. It would cost that much just to add TMCC to a Williams engine.

Pete

I have several Williams and WbB locos. They are all conventional runners. The tru-blast or TB-2 is simply a sound set with prime mover, horn, and bell sounds.
The older ones are jack-rabbits on start too. I rewire the motors in series to slow them down.

None of mine are falling apart or showing any signs of zinc pest.

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Since when is Williams not in production?  Doesn't WBB field a big roster?  All of the major retail sources, particularly sponsors to this forum, are currently selling them.

Mike

Bachmann hasn't released anything I have seen since the Eggliner thing a few years ago. Many of the Williams products on the Bachmann web-site are listed as discontinued. A few retailers have some items left in stock, notably Mario's. There are no retailers that carry a significant amount of any Williams products. No one like JusTrains or MaPa Junction with the full line anymore. Nothing I have seen suggests that the items currently listed on any retailers web-sites are new production items. Nothing suggests that they are NOS either, but Bachmann isn't putting anything out (including a catalog) that would indicate they have made anything in the Williams line in a while. The parts situation is terrible, with most items having been long since out of stock. The parts  are being cannibalized from new product as with everything coming out of China these days and no parts would equate no new product as far as I am concerned. If anyone has evidence that Bachmann is still making anything from the Williams line, please share that information with us.

I have several Williams, and they all run well except for one.   I bought one of their large sized 44 Tonners last year (not one of the small 44 ton scale models), and it was pretty big and heavy,  and only came with one motor.  It can't haul more than 5 light cars, or it starts to slow down dramatically after 2 or 3 minutes of running.

So, if you get a large size diesel, be sure to get one with two can motors.  The two I have like this are great.  The Trueblast sound system, though it only has 3 sounds, is loud and clear.

Mannyrock.

I have never had an issue personally with metal disintegrating on any of my Williams locomotives, but I have seen some that have had that issue. 

Most of my Williams is prior to the Bachmann purchase and I have slowly been selling it off as my collecting interests have changed.  However, they are good solid reliable runners.  Never had any complaints.  Basic trains you put on the track and just apply power to run.

@Mike D posted:

Bachmann hasn't released anything I have seen since the Eggliner thing a few years ago. Many of the Williams products on the Bachmann web-site are listed as discontinued. A few retailers have some items left in stock, notably Mario's. There are no retailers that carry a significant amount of any Williams products. No one like JusTrains or MaPa Junction with the full line anymore. Nothing I have seen suggests that the items currently listed on any retailers web-sites are new production items. Nothing suggests that they are NOS either, but Bachmann isn't putting anything out (including a catalog) that would indicate they have made anything in the Williams line in a while. The parts situation is terrible, with most items having been long since out of stock. The parts  are being cannibalized from new product as with everything coming out of China these days and no parts would equate no new product as far as I am concerned. If anyone has evidence that Bachmann is still making anything from the Williams line, please share that information with us.

Mike,

This thread is not just about new releases, it's about Williams over the years.

Why does Williams, or any one on their behalf, have to "prove" that they have product currently in production?  Are you concerned that they've secretly gone out of business?

I'd worry about Atlas first.

Mike

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Mike,

This thread is not just about new releases, it's about Williams over the years.

Why does Williams, or any one on their behalf, have to "prove" that they have product currently in production?  Are you concerned that they've secretly gone out of business?

I'd worry about Atlas first.

Mike

Actually it is specifically about the RS3.

I only mentioned the situation with Williams/Bachmann to inform the OP that getting parts may be difficult or impossible in order to help him make an informed decision before he buys it. Many factors come into play for some folks when looking to make a purchase. I am trying to be helpful, not necessarily dissuade him from buying it. Maybe you and others don't care and just drop a few hundred bucks on a loco and throw it away in a couple of years when it breaks and go buy another. I would think that most people don't operate that way, myself included.

You have apparently taken some offense at my response and I don't understand why. No one has to prove anything to me or anyone else. You took us down this road. I put information out there based on what I am seeing in the real world. If someone has better or more accurate information, sharing it with everyone keeps the community better informed. I am sorry if that bothers you.

Mike,

I only mentioned this because you seem to be focused on Williams' potential shortcomings, when all the other manufacturers have them as well.  I mentioned Atlas for instance.  They have parts problems, and few new items in our hands.

Parts are increasingly problematic for all of them, not just Williams.  MTH has had a mess for years; hopefully Mike R. is straightening this out.

Lionel currently takes years to get parts posted for it's new stuff.  In fact, as an example, since it's introduction in 2010 the ZW-L has only had one viable replacement part listed -- the line cord.  Since the ZW-L is currently going for north of $900.00, would you buy one if it can't be fixed?

Concerns are not restricted to Williams.  They're everywhere.

Mike

An interesting discussion between Mike and Mike.  Both make good points.

Maybe it is because I just got back into this hobby when the pandemic started, but reading the litany of posts every day of brand new expensive locos, with complicated electrical components simply not working right, or one year old locos who suddenly have an operating problem, I resigned myself to the fact that I can only really buy grade B type NIB, dual engine, models, with conventional operation and only a few sounds.

I am looking for the most trouble free, reliable, simple locomotives of the O gauge world, that are on sale, because I personally don't have the time, patience or desire to diagnose problems, take things apart, research a replacement part, try to find that replacement part, and then try to figure out how to install it.  And on top of that, I read more and more about replacement parts that are no longer available.

For me, all of that has nothing to do with running and enjoying model trains.  By way of example, I don't buy new cars or trucks so that I can have them arrive defective, or break soon after, and then spend my time trying to take the bad part out and replace it myself.  I just wanna drive my truck, . . .not work on it.

I have nothing at all against folks who enjoy doing this, but I kinda just don't get it.

This state of affairs makes me somebody who is forced to buy locos in the $150 to $225 category, knowing that if it breaks in any material respect in 36 months, it is going in the trash.   This really cuts against my grain, because I generally buy high quality Japanese cars and trucks,  and keep them for 15 to 20 years.   The parts are always available, and the service people know exactly how to fix them.  And, I really don't have to take them to the repair shop except about once every 6 years.

So, with respect to the original question by the OP, if the Williams RS3 has dual can engines, buy it, test it thoroughly when it arrives, send it back immediately for a full refund if there is any problem with it, and if not, then keep it and enjoy it for as long as it lasts.  I think that most folks will tell you that they are pretty rugged. :-)

Mannyrock

Williams engines have been one of my major choices for conversion to a wireless system for test purposes as part of my association with several of the aftermarket companies. I used the Williams Rock Island RS-3 as the platform for initial testing of the BlueRail bluetooth/DCC decoder system and it is still running great today. This conversion was described in detail in the OGRR magazine Run 314 (October 2020).

I really like the k-line rs-3s so I would buy one of these without any reservations.  

@aussteve posted:

I have a few Williams engines and they run good if they hold together.  I have had the truck frames of a FM and an Amtrak diesel disintegrate in my hands.  After a year of searching York and other part sources I gave up. Repair and replacement parts are very hard if not impossible to find regardless of what else is said on this thread.  The two major parts sources in Harrisburg and Frederick are now gone.

I don't buy Williams, K line, or MTH motive power without considering the prospect of having to throw it away or use it as a dummy.

FM truck frames are easy to come by if you use the Lionel postwar frames, not afraid of drilling one mounting screw hole and not "dead set" on having o.e.m. parts. Its a Williams not a collectable Lionel or MTH!

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Mike,

I only mentioned this because you seem to be focused on Williams' potential shortcomings, when all the other manufacturers have them as well.  I mentioned Atlas for instance.  They have parts problems, and few new items in our hands.

Parts are increasingly problematic for all of them, not just Williams.  MTH has had a mess for years; hopefully Mike R. is straightening this out.

Lionel currently takes years to get parts posted for it's new stuff.  In fact, as an example, since it's introduction in 2010 the ZW-L has only had one viable replacement part listed -- the line cord.  Since the ZW-L is currently going for north of $900.00, would you buy one if it can't be fixed?

Concerns are not restricted to Williams.  They're everywhere.

Mike

And so is the Lionel 21" dome car. Break the dome or receive a broken dome, good luck in finding a replacement part!

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Mike,

I only mentioned this because you seem to be focused on Williams' potential shortcomings, when all the other manufacturers have them as well.  I mentioned Atlas for instance.  They have parts problems, and few new items in our hands.

Parts are increasingly problematic for all of them, not just Williams.  MTH has had a mess for years; hopefully Mike R. is straightening this out.

Lionel currently takes years to get parts posted for it's new stuff.  In fact, as an example, since it's introduction in 2010 the ZW-L has only had one viable replacement part listed -- the line cord.  Since the ZW-L is currently going for north of $900.00, would you buy one if it can't be fixed?

Concerns are not restricted to Williams.  They're everywhere.

Mike

I am not really fixated on Williams per se. I will say that I have lots of Williams stuff and they are the most difficult to find parts for of all the brands I own that are still in business.

I haven't had any major issues with my Lionel stuff, which isn't a lot compared to the stuff I own from other manufacturers, so I can't say anything about their parts situation. The most expensive items I own that are from Lionel are my fleet of six CA-4 cabooses and they have been flawless. As far as the ZW-L is concerned, I am not spending $900.00 on something to make my trains go in a circle even if they have parts available for the next 1000 years and sell the parts for a buck a piece. My $250 AH601 and my $150 AH501 are working just fine for that.

MRC has been very helpful getting parts for both of the aforementioned transformers. Priced right, in stock and shipped quickly.

I don't own much more than some scale boxcars from Atlas, so there again, parts haven't been an issue for me with their products. Most of the Atlas product line is priced beyond what I'm willing to pay for toys, so they will more than likely never be an issue for me.

I own lots of MTH product, both RailKing and Premier. They have been outstanding under the old system with Midge at the helm and under the new system, so I am not going to complain about them because they are really trying and have helped me get everything I needed to maintain my stuff. They even got parts shipped from the factory in China to help me out. Do you know of any others that have done that? I don't.

Brasseur's has tons of K-Line parts and have been great with the many parts requests/acquisitions from them over the years.

Williams under Jerry and Larry were really good about getting me parts. The parts situation under Bachmann is terrible with regards to my needs since they took over the product line. So I am not picking on Bachmann. I am not pleased with the situation there and I will let people know what I feel could be potential problems going forward if I feel it will help someone out. I have purchased a few Williams items in the last couple of years. I know what I am getting into when buying their stuff. I want others to know that as well.

Unfortunately we are all at the mercy of the Chinese way of doing business and parts are one of the areas where we all pay the price for that system. I don't see that changing. I do see some companies doing a better job than others as I outlined above.

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

FM truck frames are easy to come by if you use the Lionel postwar frames, not afraid of drilling one mounting screw hole and not "dead set" on having o.e.m. parts. Its a Williams not a collectable Lionel or MTH!

Been there done that.  Not enough material in the lionel frame to drill the second hole.  Not looking for collectability just functionality.  But yours may be different.

I loved the Williams line prior to the takeover by Bachmann, which has retired almost all of the classic locomotive tooling. Recent additions, especially their 4-6-0, included some nice-running models.

But as Mike D. alluded to, locomotives have been scarce and are often discontinued rather quickly, as evidenced by Trainworld blowout sales. It’s just a fact. Bachmann is not heavily committed to its O gauge line as much as Jerry Williams was. However, the secondary market has plenty of stock available.