Williams Crown Edition locomotives

I have two of them.  A NYC Niagara and a Southern Pacific Daylight. I think they are pretty much to scale....Paul

They are scale.  All their brass steam locomotives and their diesel engines except for the Golden Memories are scale.  The Golden Memories are reproductions of the classic Lionel Post War engines. 

I believe that they also produced a copy of Lionel's diecast NYC 763(?) steam locomotive.

Please, correct me as some of my info maybe inaccurate or their are omissions.

Jan

I had the Niagara, scale dimensions, good runner and had sprung drivers!

Clem

Thank you all.  appreciated!

Helmut, I have 5 Williams/Samhongsa brass engines, all are great runners (and battery-powered by the way!).

I have 2 USRA 2-8-2s, 2 USRA 4-6-2s, and 1 N&W Class J 4-8-4 (#611).

If you go to the Freerails forum I think I may have photos of all of them in the Gallery.

You can generally find them at good prices on Ebay, the first 2-8-2 I bought was under $190 delivered, the N&W J was probably the most expensive at around $450.

The N&W J was the only one that had some paint issues, blistering on the nose cone, but from what I've read a number of folks had the same issue.  I suspect the old style light bulb was putting off too much heat.  It's a separate piece so it would be easy to take off and repaint.

The only other thing you need to be mindful of is the rubber traction tires will most likely need replacing, all were made back in the early 90s I think.

Bob D,

Thx.  Yes as you know I intend to do BPRC as well.  The model in question is a Southern Hudson in green, stated model CS110W but I cannot find anything about it (my google fu might be bad on this one).  I will check your photos out.

I have had these models recommended to me since they do not have super intricate detail (but couldm be added) and are basic so I would not be wasting money and time ripping out electronics for BPRC systems.

My favorite is my Williams N&W  class A #1218. A  huge loco that runs great and is just super impressive......scale for sure!

Here is a Williams NYC Niagara running outdoors

Nice - that is exactly what I am planning - Outdoor O layout.

I love the crown editions .  They are a great value. Last one I bought was a pacific for 150 brand new at york. My favorite is the J which is a great model. John

hlfritz posted:

Hello,

can anyone tell me if all of the Crown Edition locomotives are actual O scale, or were they also produced in traditional/semi-scale models?

Thx.

Here you see a Williams UP Challenger next to a Weaver UP FEF; both scale size.

The FEF runs first, the Challenger next.

Regards

Fred

Taken all together, and as a very general statement, I find that the Samhongsa-built Williams (and Weaver) brass steamers to be my favorites of any line of locomotives. Decent detail (easily enhanced), great runners, simple, reliable, sprung drivers (track better and run less "stiff-legged", good, adult gearing, easy to upgrade and repair.

I just wish that they (Wms/Weaver) had offered a USRA Heavy Mountain. No one has, in 3RO.

Yes, they were all 1:48 scale.

AMCDave posted:

My favorite is my Williams N&W  class A #1218. A  huge loco that runs great and is just super impressive......scale for sure!

When was the A Class produced Dave? I had most of the first models in our hobby shop back then but don't remember the A.  Was it a later edition made when they produced the 'Masterpiece Series' with the beautiful Hudson?

Can you post a photo please?   Thanks

I bought mine about 2 years ago 2nd hand. I'll check and see if there is a date. It is a later produced loco as it has the HEAVY box with a top and bottom, slick glossy paper. The loco sits up in soft foam unlike early units in the slide out box, loco on it's side in ridged white foam. 

I have 7 Crown Edition F-7 engines, very easy to work on if needed. They all run very well and look like they are full scale size.

Can't say that the Crown Edition were produced in anything but scale size.

Lee Fritz

I recently bought a Williams Crown line edition Class A in Pennsylvania paint. I cannot find any info on anywhere apparently less than 100 were made including the N&W paint. I had it upgraded to PS.3 and it's easily my favorite engine

Jan posted:

...All their brass steam locomotives...are scale. 

Jan

This is correct.  I purchased several of the hand-made, Williams  brass locomotives when they were originally issued. In fact, the locos were purchased from Nicholas Smith Trains.  As I recall, the locos used LGB smoke fluid, but, my recollection may be wrong.

Right of Way Industries, and, Williams, with the Crown Edition brass engines really led the charge to the scale trend in O gauge railroading.  (There is an interesting series of posts on another thread about a meeting between Right of Way, and Lionel execs, including Richard Kuhn, about the development of RailSounds, and the later issued, scale sized, Lionel Reading T-1)

The Williams brass steam locos required a total rebuild of my layout to incorporate the 6 foot diameter track.  At that time, one of the only alternatives was hand-bending, and cutting GarGraves flexible track, since GarGraves had not as yet introduced their sectional track.  Based on a tip from Elmer at Wild Bill's, I used my water heater as a template to bend the track!!! 

As a final note, the Williams Crown Edition engines that I owned did not have the detail of many the later issued, and, currently available 3rd Rail locos.  The Crown Edition locos are still gorgeous IMHO, and, easier to handle because of the lack of extensive detail parts that can be damaged in handling.

hlfritz posted:

Nice - that is exactly what I am planning - Outdoor O layout.

I have not run anything outdoors but I would recommend stainless steel track so the track won't rust. Also I would bring in the trains when not running them especially overnight as a small animal may get into one of your trains or damage it.

Gargraves makes stainless steel track and I think Atlas might make a track for outdoor use as well.

Lee Fritz

H+ years ago.comotives, a group of hobbyists(?) that called themselves the Brass Club purchased some of these engines and super-detailed them and then resold them. 

I have never seen one and only know of one that came up for auction on ebay which was probably 15+ years ago.  There was a thread on the forum about them at that time, but it has been lost after several forum upgrades.  When you think about it, it makes sense that they would be rare.  If you had a great runner with all that extra detail, would you sell it?

I anyone has any of these engines I would love to see some pictures of them. 

Jan

Dever posted:

I recently bought a Williams Crown line edition Class A in Pennsylvania paint. I cannot find any info on anywhere apparently less than 100 were made including the N&W paint. I had it upgraded to PS.3 and it's easily my favorite engine

I have the Williams Class A......you are correct it might be the best loco they did....mine runs great and looks fantastic.   I got mine delivered under $400.

I have two from the early days. The Southern Pacific Daylight and the Niagara. The Daylight I put a QSI sound system in the Niagara I didn't. Both are excellent runners and both have sprung drivers. On both I added brake shoes to the drivers................Paul

Dave - Dever

How about some photos of those Class A's?   Thanks.

I'm  sure that at least one  Williams Southern Hudson (HD27-5) is semi-scale.On the other hand, the

earlier Crown Line PS4 is scale, albeit not prototypical inasmuch as the prominent feedwater heater on the

boiler front was not included.

lewrail

Here are some pictrues of my Class A.  A real beast!

Jan posted:

They are scale.  All their brass steam locomotives and their diesel engines except for the Golden Memories are scale.  The Golden Memories are reproductions of the classic Lionel Post War engines.

In fact the 'Golden Memories' engines are scale.  They are 1:1 scale to their prototype.

Earl

This should be a link to the Williams Golden Memories catalog from 2011, at, P. 52 of the Williams by Bachman Catalog:

       http://www.williamstrains.com/2011/2011_williams.pdf

Here's the text from the lead-in to the Golden Memories part of the Catalog:

"The Williams by BachmannTM Golden Memories series is comprised of replicas of the most memorable O Gauge trains of the postwar period. These models are sure to bring back memories of a bygone age when model trains were built to last. They have all of the premium features of the originals, including die-cast frames, wire mesh vents, and steel-rimmed drivers on the steam locomotives. In addition, the mechanisms and electronics are time-tested designs that incorporate modern maintenance-free can motors, metal gears, and trouble-free electronics that are backed by a limited lifetime warranty.

The Williams by BachmannTM Golden Memories series makes it possible for you to own iconic trains at an affordable price with the knowledge they will be passed down for generations to come."

RLaHaie posted:

Here are some pictrues of my Class A.  A real beast!

Where did you get the spare water tender? I can't seem to find one anywhere

Here is few pics of mine

The aux water tender is from MTH.  It was marketed with the Y6b.  Looks great with the class a as well as the J.

Rolland

hi - i was looking for the thread about the williams challenger and smoke unit, but cant find it - i m from australia and this is the first USA train I ve bought - there is a switch for the smoke unit on/off under the rear bogie of the ingine i have - i m used to ho trains which all run on dc -----  i m finding this one seems muchebetter on AC (it s o gauge and 3 rail) - it's quite a wonderful model ....  i was explaining this a little to my grandson yesterday - he was pleased he knew what dc means - they make the superman comics of course

AMCDave posted:

My favorite is my Williams N&W  class A #1218. A  huge loco that runs great and is just super impressive......scale for sure!

The N&W J and the SP Daylight Crown Editions are beautiful and good runners.

Here's the N&W J:

The 4-6-2 (I have 2, the other is painted for ACL freight scheme):

And my two 2-8-2s:

411 is a SAL Class Q3, modified from the original Williams engine with a scratchbuilt Vanderbilt tender, 492 is a SAL Class Q1, it is original just repainted.

All these run off battery power.  The N&W J weighs in at over 14 pounds!!!

The only issue I have heard of is there's a number of Js out that have a rough paint job on the nose casting, I feel this is from the light bulb they used (best to replace with LED).

I'm proud of what I did to the SAL Q3, but I think my favorites right now are the 2 4-6-2 engines.  Huge drivers and great runners.

Oh, the MAIN issues with these engines is that they'll all probably need new rubber tires, as they were built back last century in the 1990s.

I witnessed some of the Williams Crown Editions that Bob Bartizak has on his "Pennsylvania and Western Railroad". They are equipped with TMCC, and they run like a Fine Tuned Swiss Watch.....................................Fact! 

His layout equipped with TMCC, gave our club members, a whole new perspective of how good TMCC was, as well as, the Old Williams Crown Edition Engines.........!

I have 2 or 3 Crown Editions Engines myself, but have never Sprung for the ERR/TMCC up grade or even fallen to the "Dark Side", for a MTH PS3 Upgrade...

As some others have said, these engines are on sale on goingly, and can be had, very reasonable, and with a good upgrade to Remote Control of choice, will make you guys an extremely good running, as well as, good looking engine for your Pike......

One of our club members installed the newest version of MTH PS3 in a Crown Edition N&W Y6b. JMO mind you, but it sounds as good as, if not better than, any of the Lionel Legacy Steam engines that our club members bring to run.......

The plus side of the "Williams Crown Edition" engines, is you can probably buy at least 3-4 of their top models, and also install the Newest of the Electronics packages, for what you'll give for one of the Lionel/3rd Rail Engines........Top that off, with doing some add on detailing, like a kid did on a "Williams Cab Forward Post", that was done here on the OGR, will put your engine over the top................................JMO

Oh Yeah for any of you guys/Gals who may want to do a Crown Edition Engine, don't for get to check with Gun Runner John and his Super Chuffer, and newest edition of getting 4 chuffs per revolution, without using magnets glued to wheels, and all of that "BS"........................Just Sayin

I just received my Williams Crown Edition PRR T1 over the weekend.  She was extremely well cared for, tiny bit of corrosion I need to figure what to do about and the four traction tires seem to be in great shape.  The tender wheels are impeccable.  I have a few questions:

1)  No instruction manual.  Where can I look to find one?

2)  A plate or sticker on the bottom says 1 of 650.  Is there any significance to this?  Can it be the first?  Pic below and others attached.  

3)  I don't know anything about Williams brass but I suppose I should open it up and make sure the the grease is still okay.  Anything else I should check while it's opened up?

4)  No idea what the sound is like or what low speed running will look like.  How do other Crown Editions run?

Can't run this until my layout is complete.  Lots of options for control upgrades and detailing.

just means it is one of the 650, not the first of the 650.  They run smooth and quiet, at least my K4's and L1 do.  Smoke units are worthless though.  No sounds that I am aware of.  The reverse unit is probably an early QSI product, they were toast in both my K4's when I bought them.  Slow speed is better than  postwar Lionel, but worse than modern command controlled locos.  You could upgrade it to a cruise commander, add sounds, and a better smoke unit if desired.

Several replys have mentioned traction tire replacement. Can someone share the source/size for replacement tires  for a Southern 2-8-2? Thanks!

win86 posted:

Several replys have mentioned traction tire replacement. Can someone share the source/size for replacement tires  for a Southern 2-8-2? Thanks!

MTH DE-0000025 tires are what I use for Williams and Weaver 2-8-2's.

I bought this Williams B6 almost 30 years ago and I can't kill it...I believe this was one of the first Crown Edition offerings.