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Greetings All, 

 

This is my first post here, although I have done much reading of other posts and learned a lot.

 

My first question involves a recent purchase of a Williams E7 A-A locomotive and a consistent derailing issue involving the FasTrack O-36 manual switches I use on my 4'x8' layout (there are 4 total).  The Williams E7 is a very long unit (18") and it has 6-wheel trucks with the leading wheels unpowered and the middle wheels unflanged.

 

At any speed above Slow (>1/4 throttle) and the switch set to take the engine off the straight track (either left or right), the leading wheels will jump the switch rails and go straight every time, causing a derailment.  I also have a dummy A unit with the same trucks (unpowered, of course) that will do the same thing also if it is being pushed in the lead through these switches.

 

When the switches are set to go straight then there are no problems.  I have a 0-8-0 starter engine (PA Flyer set), a 4-6-2 Pacific, and a PRR 6-8-6 S-2 Turbine that all navigate my O-36 switches without any trouble, although the E7 dwarfs them all.  Williams advertises that this unit will operate on O-31 curves so I should have a little breathing room.

 

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

 

Jon651

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Sometimes, especially lately, Williams' wheels are not spaced/gauged exactly right. If they are too wide, that's an easy one. You can put them in a vise and squeeze a little bit. If they are too narrow, you will need a wheel puller.

 

In any case, six wheel trucks are inherently not as happy with turnouts as four wheel trucks are.

 

But most of the trouble I have had with diesels and switches were solved by gauging the wheels properly.

Jon651,

    I hate to tell you this, but that particular Williams E7 AA will not run thru your 036 switches repeatedly, although it will take the 036 curves it does not run thru the 036 Lionel FasTrack turn outs.  The one we tested would however run thru the 072 switches.  If you have the room re-engineer your layout to accommodate your engine.  As RoyBoy indicated some do have a small truck problem, however most times it really will not change the over all repetative switch problem. 

PCRR/Dave

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply.  I finally had a day off work with nobody else home so I was able to spend a little extra time with my trains and did some work to resolve this problem.

 

First, I measured the wheel width/gauge on my troublesome Williams E7 against my other engines and several cars.  As it turns out, the E7 is pretty much smack in the middle of the variances I found - not too narrow and not too wide.

 

Next, I postulated that there was an excessive amount of side-to-side play in the leading wheel+axle set on the trucks (over 1/8" - much more than any others I had).  I filled the gap with a few 1/4" e-clips on the axles between the wheels and the mount to reduce the side play without binding the wheels.  Unfortunately, that was a dead-end.  I also looked at the truck pivot point as a problem area (not in the middle, actually behind the middle axle) but that led nowhere as well.

 

I then removed the leading truck from the E7 dummy unit and ran it around my layout behind my Lionel 4-6-2 Pacific.  Even without the body the truck routinely derailed while being both pulled and pushed thru the O-36 FasTrack switches.  At least now I was able to determine the cause...

 

The E7's six-wheeled trucks are very long, and Williams chose to install a flanged wheel set on the leading axle (unpowered), an un-flanged wheel set on the middle axle (powered), and a flanged wheel set on the rear axle (powered).  This puts the flanged wheels at the furthest distance apart.  Just pushing this truck thru an O-36 curve reveals that it is tight; I don't know how it would get thru an O-31 that Williams advertised.  There is so much lateral binding on a curve that the leading outboard wheel is literally pushed up and over the outside switch rail.

 

Unfortunately, the O-36 switches are just as much to blame.  Each switch rail comes to knife edge and rests against the main rail depending on which way the switch is set.  In this case, Lionel produced these switch rails with a taper along the top edge as well so the switch rail does not come to the same height as the main rail it rests against when it is thrown over.  Combine this with the excessive lateral forces caused by the flanged wheel sets being so far apart and it is a forgone conclusion that the outboard wheel will ride up and over the switch rail causing a derailment at any speed above dead slow.

 

Sorry for the long-winded explanation, but I think I may have a solution.

 

In order to reduce the amount of lateral binding on an O-36 curve, I propose to move the unflanged wheels from the middle axle to the trailing axle, and move the flanged wheels from the trailing axle to the middle (with the reverse set up for the rear truck).  This will put the flanged wheels much closer together and allow the E7 to negotiate the curve with less lateral binding.  With luck, this will also help keep the leading wheels from riding up and over the switch rails.

 

The final result would be that the first two axles on the front truck would have flanged wheels and the last axle would have unflanged wheels.  On the rear truck it would be the opposite. The only other option is to swap the wheels between the first and second axles leaving the front axle with unflanged wheels, but I believe this may cause it's own problems through the switches.

 

Unfortunately I do not have the necessary tools to perform this work (wheel puller and a press) and since I'm new to the hobby I've not made any connections locally as of yet.  I'm hoping that someone out there can try it out on one of their units and let us all know if it works.

 

Cheers - Jon651

Well I'm feeling mildly vindicated at this point.  I just got a good look at pictures of an MTH E-6 online, also with 6-wheel trucks and noticed that MTH decided to put the flanged wheels on the first and second axles with the blind wheels on the third, exactly like I suggested.  Unfortunately I was not able to ask the owner any questions about traveling thru FasTrack O-36 switches so I guess the jury is still out, but there appears that there might be some hope yet.

 

Now if I can only find either the courage to try the wheel swap myself or find someone with experience willing to help I just might give it a try.

 

Cheers - Jon651

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