Williams Hudson Question

Hard to say. I have a 5207 and looking at a 5205 they appear to be the same including the scale tender. Just be aware they have a low (numerically) gear ratio and not very good low speed operation.

Pete

will a modern transformer such as a z-1000 or a CW-80 run them better than a post war zw?

@671/681 posted:

will a modern transformer such as a z-1000 or a CW-80 run them better than a post war zw?

Neither is equipped with fancy electronics,….none of your above mentioned transformers would be better than the other,,……in stock form the ZW would be fine,..

Pat

I'd normally say skip the Williams and find a MTH Premier PS1 NYC Hudson. They have a much better drive train and could be found cheap (less than $300). Unfortunately now prices have gone through the roof. So if you're on a budget the Williams is probably the best bet. If you're fine with Pullmor motors the Lionel Hudson is better than the Williams version, if you can find a Lionel one for cheap.

Just wondering, why do many members dislike these locos?  Are they that fast or are slower speeds possible?  I have a Williams EP5 that does start quick and runs fast with my zw but if I run with z1000 or cw80 It starts reasonably and will run at slower speeds.  Could the Hudsons run the same way?  I see them at decent prices compared to lionel and MTH thats why I'm interested.

@671/681 posted:

Just wondering, why do many members dislike these locos?  Are they that fast or are slower speeds possible?  I have a Williams EP5 that does start quick and runs fast with my zw but if I run with z1000 or cw80 It starts reasonably and will run at slower speeds.  Could the Hudsons run the same way?  I see them at decent prices compared to lionel and MTH thats why I'm interested.

The gear ratio is horrible,….if you like running at whip lash speeds, then this is the locomotive for you,…for those of us that posted replies on this thread, the ability to cruise and cruise with good torque are a must…..stock, they’re not ideal for us….it depends on how you enjoy your trains,…..but for the record, no, they’re not bad at all,….just some of us enjoy different styles of how we operate ,…..I don’t dislike them for a bit,….they’re well made, and robust, it just takes a lot more modifications to make them up to our desired operating status,…if you’re a conventional runner, you’d probably love it as is,…

Pat

Like Pat, I don’t dislike them either and actually prefer them over all the Pullmor Hudsons save the 700E. The DC motor is a plus as are the through spoke wheels. Shop around, they show up for under 200 bucks occasionally.

Pete

Thanks guys for the info.  Yes I am a conventional operator so whatever one I get should satisfy me.  I'm going to retire in three weeks so this is going to be a present to myself.

@671/681 posted:

Thanks guys for the info.  Yes I am a conventional operator so whatever one I get should satisfy me.  I'm going to retire in three weeks so this is going to be a present to myself.

Oh cool,..heck yeah,…don’t let us deter you, they’re well built and run fine conventional…..one trick I’ve learned with them in conventional operation, stick as many cars as you dare behind them, the weight keeps them in check!…..congratulations on your upcoming retirement!….I’m only 13 months from joining you!!….counting the days,…

Pat

Harmonyards

You have 13 months to decide what you want to buy for yourself for your retirement

Which Hudsons are these? Mine is a BS03

I have a scale Hudson and I think it is fine. The valve gear and non-existant brake gear are definitely missed but they are beefy and run well. Some complain about slow speed operation and I haven't experienced any issues at any given speed. It will pull lots of scale cars with no problem. My Premier FEF is much nicer in overall detail and I can get parts for it, but it is over twice the price. So for the price point it's a decent scale loco.

As far as the 5205 and 5207 are concerned it appears that they were offered in two road numbers. This loco is prototypical for NYC, so I would imagine that two road numbers would be desired by NYC modelers.

@NYC Fan posted:

Which Hudsons are these? Mine is a BS03

Williams Masterpiece brass. Made about the same time as their Dreyfuss by the same outfit that made Lionel’s Smithsonian Hudson. The diecast Hudson the OP is looking at came about 15 years after that one.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Williams Masterpiece brass. Made about the same time as their Dreyfuss by the same outfit that made Lionel’s Smithsonian Hudson. The diecast Hudson the OP is looking at came about 15 years after that one.

Pete

Are the 5205 and 5207 like 773's???

@NYC Fan posted:

Are the 5205 and 5207 like 773's???

In outward appearance, well, sorta,…both the Williams cab numbers sport see through spoke drivers. However, other than that, decoration wise they are pretty much identical to a 773,…

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

In outward appearance, well, sorta,…both the Williams cab numbers sport see through spoke drivers. However, other than that, decoration wise they are pretty much identical to a 773,…

Pat

Thanks Pat. Wasn't sure what they were talking about.

@NYC Fan posted:

Are the 5205 and 5207 like 773's???

The Williams 773 is based on the Lionel 1950 773 with the 2426 tender. The Williams 5207 and 5205 is the same engine but with a scale tender.

Pete

@NYC Fan posted:

Thanks Pat. Wasn't sure what they were talking about.

No problem Skip, ….that BS03 model you pictured in the previous reply is a handsome Devil to be sure,….I’m sure Pete would agree, they are very very nicely detailed J3’s,…..

Pat

Buy this Williams if you can find it.

I put a ERR board in mine ... it calmed it down a little.

Mine has been to therapy. Its beyond calm.

Pete

There is no way to run these Williams Hudsons without the wired connection b/w engine and tender, correct?

@Larry Mullen posted:

There is no way to run these Williams Hudsons without the wired connection b/w engine and tender, correct?

As delivered, you are correct,…because the original Williams reversing board is about as big as an encyclopedia,….no way it’s gonna fit in the boiler shell,…😉

Pat

This what they look like inside. A Lionel E unit might fit, as Pat says the Williams E unit is too big.

Pete

Thanks, Pat.

But it can be done with a new board?  My dad's wiring broke and now there is no replacement.  Would like to know how to get it back up and running.

****I think Norton and I commented at the same time.  I didn't see his response until now (next day).

Norton, that's the calmest Williams Hudson I've ever seen.  What did you do to it to get it to go so slowly and smoothly? And it looks like the original sleuth smoke unit but I've also never seen one smoke like that.

@E-UNIT-79 posted:

Norton, that's the calmest Williams Hudson I've ever seen.  What did you do to it to get it to go so slowly and smoothly? And it looks like the original sleuth smoke unit but I've also never seen one smoke like that.

Both the motor and gearbox have been replaced with a Pittman 8700 motor and Northwest Short line 23:1 gearbox driven by an ERR Cruise Commander. Will have to wait until I can run it on the club layout to see how many cars it will pull at what speed.

Swapping the gearbox with one with a lower gear ratio (higher numerically) is the key. I tried a number of motor swaps but couldn’t get it to run any slower than it did with the original motor.

As for the smoke unit, its stock. I have a few that smoke like that. I found Suethe fluid is the best for these and only use 3-4 drops. It won’t last more than a few minutes but too much fluid will cool it down too much to smoke. Also turn it off when not in use or it will burn up. Its now powered by the R2LC so I can shut it down with the handheld.

Pete

All good stuff!  You’re in good hands with these guys!

A friend’s 5207…

@Norton posted:

Both the motor and gearbox have been replaced with a Pittman 8700 motor and Northwest Short line 23:1 gearbox driven by an ERR

So is the so is the Northwest Short Line gearbox something that can be purchased or did you take it from another locomotive?

I used one of their standard gearboxes. I would suggest a mod .5 or mod .6 idler gearbox for a 5mm axle. I used their mod .6 23:1 gearbox but a mod .5 with a 25:1 ratio should work too.

Here is there website.

https://nwsl.com

Be aware because their gearbox is shorter you will have to either angle the motor or add a belt drive to connect the motor to the gearbox. I got a smaller motor and angled the mount.

Pete

Thank you Pete. I googled nwsl before and I was actually looking at the 6 mod. Thanks for the info and link.