williams PA-1

If you buy a used one, make sure it has flywheels. The early ones didn't. They are very nice engines and pull well. Remember they are passenger engines so you will need at the very least 15 inch cars. 18 inch would be better. Don

One other thing. K-line made some very nice PAs that I think are larger than the Railking but not as large as the scale size Williams. They might fit your needs well. Don

Dave...these are very close to scale.  The belly tank is undersized and may not be correct in specific prototypical situations but the locomotives are so close to scale overall that running passenger cars shorter than the locomotives may look out of place. 

 

Alan

Short of rolling your own, is there a source of a reasonably scale sized fuel tank?  Thanks, Pat B. 

The belly tank is undersized and may not be correct in specific prototypical situations but the locomotives are so close to scale overall that running passenger cars shorter than the locomotives may look out of place. 

Attached is a relative size comparison of RailKing, Williams and MTH Premier PA-1 engines

The only PA's that i found that were what you would call traditional sized were the RailKing ones. I have those in Lehigh Valley, NYC, and New Haven (all converted to TMCC & Railsounds). They look best with the KLine "Streamliners". The KLine PA's were closer to scale in length and are very hard to find.

jackson

Here's a couple K-line made. Look on E-bay. They are hard to find but they come up fairly often. Don

The oversize porthole side windows are what kills the Williams PA-1. You can't get any scale side grills with scale windows to fix them. As a cost cutting measure, Williams used the large f7 side windows for the pa instead of scaling them down. IF there was a fix for those side windows, the Williams Pa-1 would sell better than it has.

 

IF the oversize williams portholes don't bother you, then go for it, othewise stick with the Lionel/MTH Pa-1's

I know you're asking about PA-1's, however...

 

Pat's trains has a great price on the PRR Sharks

 

http://www.patstrains.com/View_Details/?ID=15626&View_Details=View+Details

 

This link is for the Tuscan Red, they have Brunswick Green as well.

 

These are scale, bigger than the F3's but smaller than the PA-1. Just something for you to consider.

 

Gilly

I saw these Santa Fe Williams units in action at the Kensington, MD train show. I thought they were really nice.

 

I have some that I bought years ago. While not perfect, they are close to scale and are good, trouble free units. Plus, how can you go wrong for $150?

 

http://www.patstrains.com/View...Details=View+Details

 

They are scale sized. Nice truck castings (better than MTH's), the side of the nose is

awkward (transition is not smooth), tanks are too high-pocket, but you could fix or ignore that. Plus, Williams offered them in GM&O, so I have them. 

 

Not as nice as Lionel or MTH, but good enough that I've never bothered to "upgrade"

to the L or M brand. And they're GM&O.

 

If I were you and liked the looks of them, and the price was good, I'd buy them in

a heartbeat. Solid machines.

thanks everyone. i think the williams are the best bet i like the railkings but they are double the price and i don't do much sound i,m working on a set PW streamliners to run behind them i think they'll look good with those aluminum cars.

Dave

I run 15" RK Daylight cars with W PA's.  Not bad looking!

 

Because the PA's are so long, check clearances on O-31 curves.

As 'runners' its hard to beat the Williams diesels of any type. My issue with them is that the trucks are undersized and the fuel tanks are undersized as several have pointed out. The beauty of the PA is its 'massive' hunkered-down look with 'big feet'.  The other brands capture this nicely but the Williams comes up short in appearance. As mentioned, they are almost scale length and really need the RK (16") or 72" cars to look proportional. 

As Don pointed out, the K-Line would probably be your best choice and they do pop up from time to time.

 

 

We have a set of Wms Santa Fe ABAs that I repainted for the D&RG. (photo below) I also used some balsa wood and putty to enlarge the fuel tanks and made them look a lot better by filling in all the 'air' around the undersized trucks..

 

Bottom pic is a scale brass PA with normal proportions

 

http://www.trainworldonline.co...s/diesel-engines/pa/

 

You might want to check with Trainworld if considering a set.If you mention the code word "FREE B" they still might have some with that deal buy the A-A set at $199 and get a free B unit!

 

I have 2 sets the CP and Santa Fe both ABA and they look and run great, not perfectly detailed but for the price a very good buy.

They have the cast on grab irons etc.

 

If you want more detail the Williams FA's are stunning seperate grab irons etc.

 

Also I found a guy that sells the remotor kits for $85 if you needed more power for a B unit.

 

The PA set pulls 8 of the Williams 72 foot passenger cars with a little wheel slip.

Added a bit of weight that helped but going to get the extra powered trucks and 1 unit to each set of ABA so 3 powered units in each set will help and be just the added boost for long heavy trains.

 

(Of course if you do not order the B unit will save dragging around a lot of extra weight

Apart from the oversized portholes and undersized fuel tanks on the Williams PA, the other thing to consider is the Williams model approximates the PAs as configured for the Santa Fe railroad.  Specifically, the Williams PAs have a molded-in rooftop simulated number board above the cab windshields that was unique to the Santa Fe railroad (exception being the D&H but that was because they purchased some of Santa Fe's PAs and retained the number board).  So unless you model the Santa Fe or the D&H, the Williams PAs wouldn't really be accurate due to that top-mounted numberboard.

 

If you look at Sam's Rio Grande PA above you can see the simulated numberboard (the beveled rectangular box atop of and right in center of the windshields).

But then, if that detail doesn't bother you on other road names then obviously that particular discrepancy wouldn't apply. 

I love the detail of the Lionel PA's, be it Rio or S.F.  They also run great too.

Bill,

 

Thanks for putting up my train movie from Kensington.

 

Spiff,

 

That Williams ABA set in the movie has two motors and it had no trouble pulling those 8 18" MTH Premier cars for three hours at that show, the loco was barely warm after I was done running. I got lots of compliments on the set from the crowd too.

 

I am very pleased with the WBB SF PA-1 AA set that I bought from Pat's Trains back in February. I bought the B unit from Western Depot. I added a LED to the headlight and crew figurss to the lead unit. i have $271 in the set. 

Williams Pa , in classic warbonnet , waiting it's early morning assignment

What a beautiful photo!

Scratchbuilder 1-48,

Very nicely detailed! And, what c.sam said, beautiful photograph!

Williams PA-1 with Tmcc/rs.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?f...ge&v=g-jGhv_zIyU