Williams, What do You Think is Going On!

hello guys and gals.........

I was bit concerned when the NW-2 and GP-9's were not listed online 2013 catalog so I purchased the Williams NW-2 switcher 3 weeks ago for 109.95 from PATSTRAINS and it is a GREAT running engine !!! I was impressed how heavy it is for a SMALL engine with double can motors, metal gears, 8 wheel drive and 4 traction tires and heavy thick die-cast frame. I love that little guy !!!!

the woman who loves the S.F.5011,623

Tiffany

I see opportunity to get a brand new engine,  EMD- SD 90, (Alaskan RR) Item 21818

for the advertised, 109.99,  just to have something new for handsome price, @ Trainworld

Mr. Miller , have you added this engine to your Alaskan collection ?

thanks

Could be a change over is in process or could be like Lionel that they were caught with an abundance of after Christmas stock and is just dumping it to clean out the warehouse.

Yes, thanks for asking.  Already have that one and most all the other Alaska RR. units made by WBB, MTH (largest number), and Lionel.  I'm up to my ears in Alaska units, with a couple of more still on pre-order.  Would like to see a bit more Alaska steam, however.  

As for what's going on with these clearances:  I think it's just part of an industry-wide retrenching, of sorts.  Thinning existing stock a bit and gearing up to adapt to adjustments in the hobby overall.

Well.....I am not sure what the bottom line is as far as their intentions. A while back I started a post about things missing from the 2013 catalog.

IMHO I think Bachman is just resetting WbB to their way of doing things. Overall i am confidant they will continue good solid product with not too many frills. Even if they try and become a MTH in price and gadgets there is enough product out there to keep my buying.

I think we're going to be seeing some great new models in the Williams line from Bachmann. Even if some of the aforementioned items such as the GP9 and NW2 are not included in the current catalog, there appears - at least to me - sufficient supplies of them in the dealer and train show networks to last for a very long time.

Pictured below is Bachmann's HO model of a GE 45 ton diesel with side rods:

Just imagine how nice an O scale model would be. Sit tight; I'm confident good things are coming.

Bob

With the resources Bachman has at their disposal due to their sheer size, this may be an intentional or unintentional shot across the bows of Lionel and MTH with the acquisition of Williams....... as many of us have commented here the need for conventional alternatives to the more pricey and often finicky or irreparable electronic offerings........ The prices on this stock certainly cut the competitors off at the knees and it may be an enticement to compel those who have not bought this brand to do so.

I don't view what they are doing as "dumping" exactly, any more than I view the price-reductions offered by car dealers at the end of a model year as dumping. They certain are changing the products (sound, etc)., so they probably do want to move the old inventory more than they did in the past. 

While this might be a "shot across the bow" I think it could very well be that Bachmann thinks it has to copy them more: move a bit upmarket in terms of features, sound and breadth of product offerings so they compete more on equal terms (and prices).   Time will tell, but I am intrigued and hopeful by the thought that they might transform themselves this way.

I guess I see it a little differently. Shortly after Bachmann acquired Williams they raised prices to non competitive levels that were met with resistance from buyers. Inventory has built up and now prices had to be reduced to the street prices offered in the pre Bachmann days. Not unlike what RMT has done.

Pete

It will be interesting to see which scenario plays out. It could be a unloading of inventory to clear the way for what is to come. At least for volume discounters, but for some reason I think this is counter-intuitive, but who am I to question a gift horse in the mouth? It would be interesting to hear what this new sound system sounds, like although as good as my experience with Williams has been, I have no dying need to complicate my roster. It will be interesting to see what the warranty terms are on the new sound equipped engines and how it compares to the other's offerings. Heaven help those who prefer software control options, if they go the way of the others and we have a third control system and potentially have to add more complex spaghetti wiring to the layout. Ill keep my fingers crossed that this doesn't happen for the sake of others as well as the hobby as some would get stuck with the equivalence of another Betamax debacle. A superior system for it's time going the way of the Dodo. But then again, vinyl is coming back for the new generation. I thought the Williams buy out could be an opportunity for O standards.

I drank too much Kool Aid that morning. 

As an analogy, in terms of audio systems I have are a turntable, CD and cassette tape player as I do not want to reinvest buying everything twice to get a compatible format. 

RMT has been doing what Williams is doing but on steroids.

    It may be that they are in their fourth fiscal quarter like so many other companies. This would be 2012 Q4 for those companies that we are in right now. 2013 Q1 would begin on April 1. 

    These companies want to reduce any inventories significantly by March 31 so they can show more revenue for the fiscal year and close out their books looking good. Then on April 1 they can begin anew with new production, new inventories, new models, etc.

    If there is a new sound system coming out, then they would want to move out old models in the current fiscal year, clean out the warehouse and get ready for the new models.

John Knapp

Erie, not Eerie

Originally posted by Lee Willis:

While this might be a "shot across the bow" I think it could very well be that Bachmann thinks it has to copy them more: move a bit upmarket in terms of features, sound and breadth of product offerings so they compete more on equal terms (and prices).   Time will tell, but I am intrigued and hopeful by the thought that they might transform themselves this way.

I agree and hopefully WBB will see that Higher Scale detail locomotives with minimal electronics- Diesel roar horn & bell and bullet-proof reverse is the way to go!

I like their Scale Fa-1, BLW Sharks and E7's[ for which I have in my collection] and I am looking forward to a PRR Gp30. I would even applaud a revamped line of Scale Sd45's, F7's, 44 Tonners, U33C's, & F45's

Electroliner,

In terms of sound, the GP30 isn't bad. Volume is lower than what most are used to from Lionel and MTH.  Had mine at a club layout, sound was a bit overwhelmed by other sounds systems and train/wheel noise.  At home, with less other sound systems/noise going on, it sounds good. 

I like Williams, but they run so fast. Is there any way to slow the engines down just a  little?

I like Williams, but they run so fast. Is there any way to slow the engines down just a  little?

Yes Do a Search on "Wiring Williams motors in Series" and you will have a nice runner!

Maybe it has something to do with cash flow.

I agree that it would be tremendously popular if WBB came out with an O scale 45 tonner with the detail of their HO or On30 line.  These little switchers can and were run practically everywhere.  It would also be nice if they offered a painted/unlabeled version with a small sheet of various industrial name decals that the buyer can choose from and apply.

As much as I enjoy a strong sounding engine - especially starting up and moving out, I've also come to appreciate turning the sounds down or off once everything starts running.  I would guess that the sound level produced by the "typical" O gauge engine is greater than 1/48 that of its respective prototype.  So many of us prefer to see scale details and sounds that are accurate to the prototype.  IMO, it would be interesting to know or obtain a perspective of 1:48 prototype sound.  As mentioned, I'm guessing that we would need to turn the volume down a notch or two in order to be truly faithful to the prototype.

FWIW, in the past 4 years I've acquired 4 new WBB (F3 and FA1 (x3)) and 4 slightly used (GG1, E7 (x2), and Sharks) and find that I run these conventional engines more than the other two command engines purchased in the same time period and those remaining PS2/TMCC engines that I had in the stable.

As for the reason behind the recent WBB blowouts, I thought they did a simalar "sale" at this time of year last year and the year before.  So it might be related to their financial reporting.  With their new sound system coming to market, WBB could be looking to get as much of its older True Blast 2 products out of their pipeline to reduce the possibility that the newer sound system and engine details would make those older products undesirable and unable to convert to sales in a timely matter.  An orderly liquidation of product generally gets a higher return than a true fast/blowout liquidation of products.

This is certain: WBB is either going to make more or will replace them

.

I would buy several of the 45-tonners in O, but am not going to hold my breath waiting for them.

Have you tried using a different transformer? The Troller Company used to make a model TAC 2001, had two voltage selections to run O gauge trains on; zero to 9 volts and zero to 18 volts AC.
This way you don't blow the warrenty by messing with the electronics.

Lee Fritz

It's a conspiracy.

You will have to wait patiently until some time in April for any new announcements by Williams/Bachmann corp. The Ask The Bachmann has that reply on the Bachmann website.

Bachmann won't say what until it is officially released at York PA Trainshow in April.

Lee Fritz

Jim, it's not a conspiracy but I do think it's got something to do with the government cloud seeding. Have you noticed all those vapor trails? Don

Where is Moulder and Scully?

Dominic, you don't want to know..........Don

Yes. Get a better/modern transformer/power supply. The old postwar motors needed 5-7 volts just to get started, so the postwar transformers usually start arount 5-7 volts. Williams and other can motor locos run fine on as little as 4 volts, so you need to get a powersupply that starts around zero. MTH Z series power supplies start at very low voltage, as does the TPC by Lionel, and others make modern supplies also.

You don't need to mess with the electronics and you don't need to buy another transformer. I bought a Williams U33C at Trainworld's $99 blowout a couple of months ago and using a PW ZW it's the smoothest and quietest running engine that I have. I can get it to creep along verrrrrry slowwwwwly.

I use the diode method described here

www.jcstudiosinc.com/BlogShowT...=488&categoryId=

The old Williams had a lot of clearance sales,I have a bunch of their engines I purchased this way. GP9s were less than $100 each as I remember.

Dale H

hello guys and gals........

My new Williams Santa Fe NW-2 which I purchased 3 weeks ago,after breaking-in for hour in forward and reverse and lubing with red & tacky #2, high quality machine oil for axles, starts moving at 6 volts.  The NW-2 with 3 cars (1 pound each) is going about 35 scale mph with the Z4000 @ 7.5 volts and its not trying fly out the window just yet !!!!!!!!!. My TINY layout is only 4 by 6 and using 0-36 fastrack.  Its a GREAT little engine!!!

the woman who loves the S.F.5011,623

Tiffany

I am not too interested in the old Williams models because they have very few roadnames that fit my themes, and there graphics for the CNW DASH 9 were just an approximation.

I hope that they get the O Scale GP38-2 diesel Loco into production in the original 1970's paint schemes and road numbers for the Grand Trunk Western and the Soo Line.

Andrew

Have no idea what Bachmann's plan for Williams is.  I do know that my B&M F3s will be coming soon from Ro's, I can't wait for it to arrive.  Great price, and I expect it will run for a long time.  For me, WBB is the way go.

Wouldn't it be great if Williams came out with a nice plastic steeple cab. They would sell a ton of them. No one has ever mass produced them. Don

Don, this really isn't anything new for Williams, 20 years ago, maybe a a little less, I would wait for York to buy anything Williams.  I purchased Amtrak FP 45's, and Milwaukee EP5's, powered and dummy, $50 for the pair.  Trainworld would be blowing Williams stuff out like they did last year and the year before.  And in those days Williams was owned by Williams :-)

Bill, believe me I know. I paid over $1200 for my Williams brass cab forward. Two months later they were selling them for $500. Don

I think that WBB is getting ready to come out with a Command Control system, but not to the level of Lionel or MTH. I see an engine with CC couplers and remote control per a hand held unit, much the same as their dump cars.

Another option they could have is AA units that are both powered, but each one could be optioned per a slid switch to be a Master, or a Slave unit. When tethered together the master engine will control the two via it's e-unit.

They could even offer a B unit that is always the master with a ten amp e-unit. When used the two A's would be optioned as slave units that are controlled by the B's ten amp E-unit via the tethers.

All wheels and center rail rollers could be paralleled through the tethers as well.

We could have a A-B-A that could pull the wall down or brake them up for smaller consist just like the real RR's do.

You will see new product announced at York. As for the Inventory Reduction sale we also will have some great specials at York.

Williams has a remote control that works with about 11 operating cars made by WBB. So maybe it can be modified to work with the couplers on the new diesel engines.

If WBB does issue any form of command control, let's hope that it is adaptable to either Lionel's Legacy or MTH's DCS command control. Otherwise there will be one more system to buy!

There was some stir about WBB going to DCC control like with H.O. and G gauge trains, however this was wishful thinking by people on the Bachmann forum and not Bachmann.

Let's wait until the April 'York Trainshow' and see what WBB announces!

Lee Fritz

I don't think that WBB will come out with a GP-38-2. I mentioned about a GP-39 to one of the administrators and his reply was; "There were not enough of the original GP-39's made to warrent recovery costs for us." Honestly I doubt that WBB will do anything other than the main-line models and major railroads for O gauge.

Lee Fritz