Working on a layout

Wouldn't you have a problem reaching your corners, assuming the platform butts up

into the corners of the room? 

     Hoppy

The around the room/walls approach is to enable the use of large radius curves.

Will you want to run large scale steamers?  Same for 18" or 21" passenger cars.

O72 will only allow them on the outer loop and they won't look good hanging over.

Is the 12.5' x 18' the interior wall dimensions?

Now, to answer your question about the use of interior of reverse loops - that depends on what you see for your railroad. My first reaction is to move the yard in there. It's awkward where it's located and too short for parking complete trains.

The space in there can be whatever you need it to be. An industrial area to deliver cars, a city/town with a trolley, a port and so on.

I dropped the layout in a 12.5' x 18' room and set the track at 40". 3D's attached.

There is a lot to more to consider with this approach. Which way do you like more- the table or around the walls ?

I would move the yard to the left side between the loops or in front of the loop.  Where it is now you have to reach over the mains to place or rerail the cars.  You will likely get longer sidings.

Jan

Here's a version with the yard moved. I couldn't get SCARM to join the tracks circled in Red, but I'm confident they'd connect when the track is laid, especially with some Atlas flextrack in the mix.

 I wish, I would thought that track layout. Very nice.

I like

I like it too!!  

For comparison I attached a copy of my track plan, which was created by a fellow forum member a few years ago.  You will note a couple of similarities, but I do not have the full around the room connection.

Aflyer

DoubleDAZ posted:

Here's a version with the yard moved. I couldn't get SCARM to join the tracks circled in Red, but I'm confident they'd connect when the track is laid, especially with some Atlas flextrack in the mix.

 

 

Jan posted:

I would move the yard to the left side between the loops or in front of the loop.  Where it is now you have to reach over the mains to place or rerail the cars.  You will likely get longer sidings.

Jan

Jan I would like to thank you for the suggestion of moving the yard to the left. Great idea. And Dave I want to thank you for actually doing it. I just love that layout. Can you tell me how you were able to download my scarm layout and make changes too it? I haven't been able to figure out how to download your. Thank all of you for yor suggestions and help.

DaleHardy,

To download a SCARM file, simply right click the file (ends in .scarm) and choose "Save Link As."  A Windows Explorer box will open on your screen allowing you to choose the location where you wish to save the file on your computer.  Once it's there, simply double click on it and SCARM will open that file for you to look at or work on as you choose.

Chuck

Dale,

Sorry I didn't see this until now, but I hope you were able to follow Chuck's instructions to download the SCARM file.

DaleHardy posted:

DoubleDAZ posted:

Here's a version with the yard moved. I couldn't get SCARM to join the tracks circled in Red, but I'm confident they'd connect when the track is laid, especially with some Atlas flextrack in the mix.

 

 

 

I like this layout could you possible draw this up using Ross track with 0-72 and 0-84 curves. Would it still fit in 14x18?  Is it open in the middle?  Duck under or Lift Bridge in top right corner when looking at it? A turntable in one of the loops might be nice. I don't have scarm, right now all I have is rr track for scale traxx and atlas track. 

Mike

PRR1950 posted:

DaleHardy,

To download a SCARM file, simply right click the file (ends in .scarm) and choose "Save Link As."  A Windows Explorer box will open on your screen allowing you to choose the location where you wish to save the file on your computer.  Once it's there, simply double click on it and SCARM will open that file for you to look at or work on as you choose.

Chuck

Thanks Chuck. That worked.

DoubleDAZ posted:

Dale,

Sorry I didn't see this until now, but I hope you were able to follow Chuck's instructions to download the SCARM file.

Thanks Dave. Chucks idea worked fine. Once again I appreciate your work.

PRR1950 posted:

DaleHardy,

To download a SCARM file, simply right click the file (ends in .scarm) and choose "Save Link As."  A Windows Explorer box will open on your screen allowing you to choose the location where you wish to save the file on your computer.  Once it's there, simply double click on it and SCARM will open that file for you to look at or work on as you choose.

Chuck

Thanks Chuck. That worked.

Michael Pellegrino posted:

DaleHardy posted:

DoubleDAZ posted:

Here's a version with the yard moved. I couldn't get SCARM to join the tracks circled in Red, but I'm confident they'd connect when the track is laid, especially with some Atlas flextrack in the mix.

 

 

 

I like this layout could you possible draw this up using Ross track with 0-72 and 0-84 curves. Would it still fit in 14x18?  Is it open in the middle?  Duck under or Lift Bridge in top right corner when looking at it? A turntable in one of the loops might be nice. I don't have scarm, right now all I have is rr track for scale traxx and atlas track. 

Mike

 

I am thinking of using either a lift gate or a swing gate in the top right corner and was also thinking of a turntable.

Dave,

Make the entry to the yard where the the red dot is.  This will gain you some extra length to the sidings.

Jan

Jan posted:

Dave,

Make the entry to the yard where the the red dot is.  This will gain you some extra length to the sidings.

Jan

It's not my layout, all I did was move the yard like someone suggested to show Dale what it would look like. He has the SCARM file, so I assume he'll try his own variations. If it were my layout, I'd definitely change it to enter the yard from both ends.

DaleHardy posted:

I am thinking of using either a lift gate or a swing gate in the top right corner and was also thinking of a turntable.

Just so you know, turntables need quite a bit of space. 

Michael Pellegrino posted:

I like this layout could you possible draw this up using Ross track with 0-72 and 0-84 curves. Would it still fit in 14x18?  Is it open in the middle?  Duck under or Lift Bridge in top right corner when looking at it? A turntable in one of the loops might be nice. I don't have scarm, right now all I have is rr track for scale traxx and atlas track. 

Mike

Give me some time and I'll see what I can do. This is 12.5' x 18', so we'll see. As for the other things, I have no idea what Dale plans to do, but it's his plan, not mine.

And don't forget, SCARM is free, so you really should download it and learn it, especially if you don't plan to upgrade RR-Track with added track libraries. Even though I now intend to use ScaleTrax on my layout, I upgraded so I could compare other track configurations, mostly curve sizes. I still use RR-Track as my go-to software though, but I usually re-renter my final design in SCARM too for the different 3D view. In fact, I'm about to start doing that today, but I'll convert this to Ross first. BTW, why Ross track and not GarGraves with Ross switches? I don't recall reading about an all-Ross layout, not that there's anything wrong with it.

DoubleDAZ posted:

Michael Pellegrino posted:

I like this layout could you possible draw this up using Ross track with 0-72 and 0-84 curves. Would it still fit in 14x18?  Is it open in the middle?  Duck under or Lift Bridge in top right corner when looking at it? A turntable in one of the loops might be nice. I don't have scarm, right now all I have is rr track for scale traxx and atlas track. 

Mike

Give me some time and I'll see what I can do. This is 12.5' x 18', so we'll see. As for the other things, I have no idea what Dale plans to do, but it's his plan, not mine. 

And don't forget, SCARM is free, so you really should download it and learn it, especially if you don't plan to upgrade RR-Track with added track libraries. Even though I now intend to use ScaleTrax on my layout, I upgraded so I could compare other track configurations, mostly curve sizes. I still use RR-Track as my go-to software though, but I usually re-renter my final design in SCARM too for the different 3D view. In fact, I'm about to start doing that today, but I'll convert this to Ross first. BTW, why Ross track and not GarGraves with Ross switches? I don't recall reading about an all-Ross layout, not that there's anything wrong with it.

Dave

I will try to download scarm.  Everyone says ross switches are the best so why not try ross track. They have plenty of curve choices and switches. The price is affordable, I hear how good Steve is to everybody. I do like the way the track looks. Those the reasons why I thank you for giving it a try.  

Mike

DaleHardy posted:

PRR1950 posted:

DaleHardy,

To download a SCARM file, simply right click the file (ends in .scarm) and choose "Save Link As."  A Windows Explorer box will open on your screen allowing you to choose the location where you wish to save the file on your computer.  Once it's there, simply double click on it and SCARM will open that file for you to look at or work on as you choose.

Chuck

Thanks Chuck. That worked.

Thank you I will try to download it.

Mike

Mike, here's what I was able to put together. The switch to Ross threw all the measurements off and just replacing tracks 1-4-1 simply didn't work. I tried several combinations to try to replicate the yard. I think the biggest problem was the size of the switches. And there are several places where I couldn't make things join, but Ross doesn't have any little pieces, so some cutting might be involved. I didn't try curved switches, wyes, 3-ways, etc.

Anyway, this should give you something to work with in SCARM, but don't hesitate to ask for whatever you can't figure out and I'll try to accommodate. You might want to start your own thread though so the different versions will be separate.

DoubleDAZ posted:

Mike, here's what I was able to put together. The switch to Ross threw all the measurements off and just replacing tracks 1-4-1 simply didn't work. I tried several combinations to try to replicate the yard. I think the biggest problem was the size of the switches. And there are several places where I couldn't make things join, but Ross doesn't have any little pieces, so some cutting might be involved. I didn't try curved switches, wyes, 3-ways, etc.

Anyway, this should give you something to work with in SCARM, but don't hesitate to ask for whatever you can't figure out and I'll try to accommodate. You might want to start your own thread though so the different versions will be separate.

 

Thank you Dave

Mike

Please  don't forget about Integrated Signals Systems.com  

They have some really nice Railroad Signals for Layout.

Thanks,John

Dale,

I did another rendering with the yard relocated.

DoubleDAZ posted:

Dale,

I did another rendering with the yard relocated.

 

Dave I like it the longer yard it is nice. Are still using the same switches from the previous rendering? And 0-64 n the inside loops? I love how layout plans morph it is great 

Mike

DoubleDAZ posted:

Dale,

I did another rendering with the yard relocated.

 

Thanks Dave. They just keep getting better. Perhaps I could use the top have for some factories and warehouses and the upper circle for a small residential area.

Michael Pellegrino posted: 

Dave I like it the longer yard it is nice. Are still using the same switches from the previous rendering? And 0-64 n the inside loops? I love how layout plans morph it is great 

Mike

All I did to my original 12x18 version was move the yard. The outside oval was/is O72, the inside O64 and the loops/switches/yard O54.

In your case, I used O84/O72/O64 and had to change to the #4 switches on the left side. I'm sure I could have gotten things to work with other sizes, but I had no idea what your requirements were, so I put something together quickly just to show how things could fit. I'm more than happy to help someone put "their" ideas into SCARM or RR-Track, but I don't have the vision to design a layout for someone else.

In the case of these designs, other than 12.5x18 and 14x18 there were no other specs given, just a basic sketch with some large ovals and a couple of loops.  Someone suggested the yard and I had some time, so I added it, but I made no judgement about the layout itself. If it were my layout, I'd have elevated tracks that weave back and forth across each other rather than 2 ovals side by side all the way around. Dual mains look nice, but they don't need to do so around the whole layout, at least not for me. I like to see trains pass each other going in opposite directions, go over/under each other, weave in and out, change elevations, go through tunnels, etc. Basically, I'm talking the desert Southwest between Tucson and El Paso that we see several times a year in our travels to/from the East Coast. Others like turntables, yards and sidings with lots of switching action. Others like urban running like subways or elevated trains. And that could be the case for this layout. I don't think I followed the original thread, so I don't know what the goal is other than an around-the-room alternative to a table layout.

I also don't have any idea what the budget is, so it's hard to recommend changes. Heck, these layouts, especially yours since you seem to want to use Ross track (not sure why), could probably benefit from some Ross double-crossovers, wyes, curved switches, etc., but all that costs money and I don't recommend those unless someone is stuck for a solution and hasn't considered them. I don't mind trying to help solve a problem, but I just don't have the experience to "butt in" with my ideas for what I'd do with the space. Shoot, I'm sure someone with more experience designing yards can come up with something better than I did.

DaleHardy posted:

Thanks Dave. They just keep getting better. Perhaps I could use the top have for some factories and warehouses and the upper circle for a small residential area.

Absolutely. I see I forgot to take out the switch and clean up the loop. I can do that for you if you need me to.

Here's a tip when working in SCARM or RR-Track, use layers. I've currently got 30 some layers in my design and that's after I've merged some because I'm done making changes to those areas. I've got 5 layers for one level, 3 of which are alternate track designs. I see some people make changes and save them using another file name and then have trouble keeping track of all the versions. I simply use Level 3-1, Level 3-2, Level 3-3, and so on. That way I don't have multiple files to manage. I do have 3 files, but each is a completely different design for the space and only the current one is in my active folder. Both programs let you turn layers off/on, so I can quickly compare the 3 sets of track for Level 3 without having to keep track of 3 files.

DoubleDAZ posted:

DaleHardy posted:

Thanks Dave. They just keep getting better. Perhaps I could use the top have for some factories and warehouses and the upper circle for a small residential area.

Absolutely. I see I forgot to take out the switch and clean up the loop. I can do that for you if you need me to.

Here's a tip when working in SCARM or RR-Track, use layers. I've currently got 30 some layers in my design and that's after I've merged some because I'm done making changes to those areas. I've got 5 layers for one level, 3 of which are alternate track designs. I see some people make changes and save them using another file name and then have trouble keeping track of all the versions. I simply use Level 3-1, Level 3-2, Level 3-3, and so on. That way I don't have multiple files to manage. I do have 3 files, but each is a completely different design for the space and only the current one is in my active folder. Both programs let you turn layers off/on, so I can quickly compare the 3 sets of track for Level 3 without having to keep track of 3 files.

Dave I can take out the switch. Thanks. I will look into using different levels. I also read your reply about elevated tracks and trains passing each other. I would love to have that type of layout. Money id not an issue. I just dont think I could design it and even if I could I don't believe I have the skill to build the bench work or do all the necessRy electricxl work.

DaleHardy posted:

Dave I can take out the switch. Thanks. I will look into using different levels. I also read your reply about elevated tracks and trains passing each other. I would love to have that type of layout. Money id not an issue. I just dont think I could design it and even if I could I don't believe I have the skill to build the bench work or do all the necessRy electricxl work.

Don't sell yourself short. I've only done some HO/N mockups in the '70s, but I'm confident I can do this with some guidance from the good folks here. I get glossy-eyed looking at these large layouts with all the L-girders/risers and that's partly why I'm using a hybrid system with tabletop sections to make elevation changes. And don't forget that Woodland Scenics makes foam sections that make grades pretty easy when using tabletop benchwork. It doesn't have to be as complicated as some of these threads make it.

DoubleDAZ posted:

Michael Pellegrino posted: 

Dave I like it the longer yard it is nice. Are still using the same switches from the previous rendering? And 0-64 n the inside loops? I love how layout plans morph it is great 

Mike

All I did to my original 12x18 version was move the yard. The outside oval was/is O72, the inside O64 and the loops/switches/yard O54.

In your case, I used O84/O72/O64 and had to change to the #4 switches on the left side. I'm sure I could have gotten things to work with other sizes, but I had no idea what your requirements were, so I put something together quickly just to show how things could fit. I'm more than happy to help someone put "their" ideas into SCARM or RR-Track, but I don't have the vision to design a layout for someone else.

In the case of these designs, other than 12.5x18 and 14x18 there were no other specs given, just a basic sketch with some large ovals and a couple of loops.  Someone suggested the yard and I had some time, so I added it, but I made no judgement about the layout itself. If it were my layout, I'd have elevated tracks that weave back and forth across each other rather than 2 ovals side by side all the way around. Dual mains look nice, but they don't need to do so around the whole layout, at least not for me. I like to see trains pass each other going in opposite directions, go over/under each other, weave in and out, change elevations, go through tunnels, etc. Basically, I'm talking the desert Southwest between Tucson and El Paso that we see several times a year in our travels to/from the East Coast. Others like turntables, yards and sidings with lots of switching action. Others like urban running like subways or elevated trains. And that could be the case for this layout. I don't think I followed the original thread, so I don't know what the goal is other than an around-the-room alternative to a table layout.

I also don't have any idea what the budget is, so it's hard to recommend changes. Heck, these layouts, especially yours since you seem to want to use Ross track (not sure why), could probably benefit from some Ross double-crossovers, wyes, curved switches, etc., but all that costs money and I don't recommend those unless someone is stuck for a solution and hasn't considered them. I don't mind trying to help solve a problem, but I just don't have the experience to "butt in" with my ideas for what I'd do with the space. Shoot, I'm sure someone with more experience designing yards can come up with something better than I did.

DoubleDaz,

The scarm software is great. I was able to get the hang of it pretty quickly and the layout we started has morphed into a different layout.   I just want to say thank you for everything.  The reason for the Ross track was everybody loves their switches, and every who says Steve is good with customer service, the different amount of curves and switches, the track is readily available and a good price and it looks good. Again thank you for everything when I finally decide the layout plan ( my 12 yr old son keeps adding things hahaha) I will send you a copy to see what you think.

Mike

Michael Pellegrino posted:

DoubleDaz,

The scarm software is great. I was able to get the hang of it pretty quickly and the layout we started has morphed into a different layout.   I just want to say thank you for everything.  The reason for the Ross track was everybody loves their switches, and every who says Steve is good with customer service, the different amount of curves and switches, the track is readily available and a good price and it looks good. Again thank you for everything when I finally decide the layout plan ( my 12 yr old son keeps adding things hahaha) I will send you a copy to see what you think.

Mike

Happy you were able to get the hang of SCARM, looking forward to seeing what you ultimately come up with. I realize not everyone is computer savvy, but I think it's more satisfying when one can "morph" their own layout with help from others vs relying on someone else to do it. I've lost count of how many variations I've tried and I can't imagine having someone else do that for me. Just make sure you post your design before you start building, so folks can take a look and offer suggestions.

I figured you planned to use Ross switches, was just a little surprised that you were using their track too. I can't remember ever seeing a layout here using Ross track (though I'm sure there is one), most seem to use GarGraves or Atlas track with the Ross switches. I'm not sure why that is other than maybe the available track sizes the others offer or the flextrack or maybe price. I'm a novice, so I'm not trying to dissuade you, was just curious. I'm leaning toward ScaleTrax and that isn't used here either.