Would You Buy A Tinplate Standard Gauge Diesel Streamliner?

Very attractive, however the abilities to form sheet metal into complex curves may outweigh a competitive cost. The shape of these diesel locomotives would seem to lend themselves to die-cast bodies.

CJ Meyers posted:

Very attractive, however the abilities to form sheet metal into complex curves may outweigh a competitive cost. The shape of these diesel locomotives would seem to lend themselves to die-cast bodies.

CJ,

You may be right.  I'd be happy if they made a die-cast Standard Gauge Milwaukee Road diesel streamliner similar to what JAD did with its die-cast Hiawatha Atlantic.  Tinplate or die-cast, either would work for me. 

Making an F3 or an F6 has the advantage of potentially being done in a variety of railroad paint schemes thus potentially increasing sales at minimum additional development costs.  If produced, what railroad diesel streamliner would you be interested in buying?

Bob Nelson

Original Marx made sheet metal diesels (ALCO F's), so it is doable. I asked the Flynns back when they were still in production if they had ever thought about expanding into Standard gauge but they said there wasn't enough market to go around.

Still, a nice idea to wish for.

The Marx O #21 was all tin and close to scale in size. It shows that it can be done. Unique Art did it also, but compromised and used plastic for the upper cowl section. An increase of about 30% of any of these would make a quite attractive unit. I'd love to see it happen, but no one seems to want to bother with lithography.  Also provided is a photo of a diesel that WAS in the mock up stage.

Steve

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

The Marx O #21 was all tin and close to scale in size. It shows that it can be done. Unique Art did it also, but compromised and used plastic for the upper cowl section. An increase of about 30% of any of these would make a quite attractive unit. I'd love to see it happen, but no one seems to want to bother with lithography.  Also provided is a photo of a diesel that WAS in the mock up stage.

Steve

Steve,

Who is/was "Ameritrains" and did they make the mock up of the Olympian Hiawatha?  Also, was the mock up in O or Standard gauge?

Bob Nelson

I don't think I would.

Maerklin offered a very nice tinplate F7 in the Maxi Gauge 1 line. So it can be done.

There is also a huge 1970's Japanese pressed steel battery diesel that pops up at flea markets from time to time. It appears that it could be a good starting point for a scratch built standard gauge. I'd love to try it.

navy.seal posted:

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

The Marx O #21 was all tin and close to scale in size. It shows that it can be done. Unique Art did it also, but compromised and used plastic for the upper cowl section. An increase of about 30% of any of these would make a quite attractive unit. I'd love to see it happen, but no one seems to want to bother with lithography.  Also provided is a photo of a diesel that WAS in the mock up stage.

Steve

Steve,

Who is/was "Ameritrains" and did they make the mock up of the Olympian Hiawatha?  Also, was the mock up in O or Standard gauge?

Bob Nelson

Bob, Marx Trains became Ameritrains. The prototype was probably done by Jim Flynn. It is 027.

Steve

Hello Standard Gauge diesel fans 

The Standard Gauge world is unique .... most folks into Standard Gauge think  Lionel , Flyer and Ives ... that group is divided into original folks .....and repro folks ...the repro folks seem to be happy to buy 400 e's in a rainbow of colors and the manufactures are happy to cater to that market .

Non Lionel , Flyer , Ives  standard gauge collectors  are a much much smaller group  hence the one man shops and cottage industry that has been around for the last 55 + years ...but only turning out very limited runs .. low numbers not much money to be made ...labor of love to make .   This is the Modern Era Standard Gauge group filled with a wide variety of manufactures with a huge number of pieces made in ( most cases)  very small production runs ..or one at a time. 

Lionel learned a hard lesson producing the Hiawatha in Standard Gauge in 2001..their first newly designed Standard Gauge piece since the 385 in 1933.....they found out Standard Gauge collectors  like the old stuff and not too keen on newly designed models ... the Hiawatha is lovely wonderful a master piece ...but the market for it was quickly flooded and price were slashed to move stock.

A standard gauge diesel falls into the same trap ... there is a very small market for them because it does not fit into the stereotype of a "Standard Gauge Train".

DeHanes produced a beautiful  F unit .... with limited success and production ..later offering it in 1 gauge to find a larger market ..till the mass producers flooded the market with cheaper product.

Bob Thon of Robert Lines has produced a shovel  nose E unit casting which he made as 1 gauge but could be modified to Standard Gauge 

A Gentlemen in the LA made molds of F units ...sold the molds to Bob Thon  who made a run of castings  but did not find a ready market to sell to 

Glenn Toy Trains made a F unit .... ok it's a bit on the short side ... 

Forney  produced a  GP 7 ? type diesel ...

So there are quite a number of diesels out there already ...just have to track one down...

Cheers Carey 

that would be great,they could use the cars from the lti Milwaukee Hiawatha  

I think if the Hiawatha and Commodore Vanderbilt were made ten years later they would have been much bigger sellers. They were ahead of there time.

true and they were released back to back,,,,$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ back then,i have heard they "lost" the dies,,who knows with lionel being around the block several time since then its possible,,sad if true

Probably not. For the $$ it would cost I would try to acquire some old originals that I would like to have.

in 1:26, even an AB or AA diesel pair would be over 5½ feet long.  add five (minimum) 80' passengers cars and you're looking at over 20' of  train.  not many people have the room for something like this.  cut the scale down to 1:32 and the gauge to 45mm and you can run them outdoors, ...where trains belong.

cheers...gary

I do not think so.
For me standard gauge is more nostalgic and should be left to steamers and electrics and I like the old stuff.
If one shows up on the secondary market for a good price, who knows.

I could not imagine having a large collection of standard gauge. I would have no place to display it. 

I am looking for one set for the Christmas tree, and that would be a Lionel State Car set and I think I would be good. 

Carey,

Is the above streamliner Standard Gauge and, if it is, who made it?

Bob Nelson

Those State cars by Lionel are big !!  I have three that I have scrounged and fixed up-not restored.

Hello Bob 

The  Santa Fe  E unit is made by Bob Thon of Roberts Lines in NY .... he designed the casting and trucks ..it is currently available in 1 gauge ....

Best to contact Bob and try and buy the castings and build your own power truck for standard gauge ..or see if Bob would build one in standard gauge for you .   This is big engine !

Cheers Carey 

verlandflyer posted:

in 1:26, even an AB or AA diesel pair would be over 5½ feet long.  add five (minimum) 80' passengers cars and you're looking at over 20' of  train.  not many people have the room for something like this.  cut the scale down to 1:32 and the gauge to 45mm and you can run them outdoors, ...where trains belong.

cheers...gary

Gary,

I appreciate your views.  However, though it might have been nice to have a single scale used by manufacturers, as you obviously know that's not what happened.  Rather, manufacturers produced trains and accessories in a variety of scales resulting in a variety of non-prototypical engines and cars.  After all, they were intended to be "toys" not scale railroads and at least to me their different scales is part of their charm.  

In addition, I would love to have an early 1930s era Milwaukee Road EMD streamliner diesel to use in place of the Milwaukee Road Baltic (Hudson) locomotive sold with Lionel's Standard Gauge Hiawatha set.  The early diesel could use the same Hiawatha cars and could easily be a shorter consist than Lionel's original steam engine train.     

Lastly, to date Standard Gauge trains have not been designed for use outdoors.  That's what G gauge trains are for.  If space is a problem, join SGMA, build a few modules, and enjoy running your Standard Gauge trains on a SGMA layout at train shows.  That's what I did and I'm having a ball. 

Bob Nelson

Carey Williams posted:

Hello Bob 

 

The  Santa Fe  E unit is made by Bob Thon of Roberts Lines in NY .... he designed the casting and trucks ..it is currently available in 1 gauge ....

Best to contact Bob and try and buy the castings and build your own power truck for standard gauge ..or see if Bob would build one in standard gauge for you .   This is big engine !

Cheers Carey 

   

Carey,

Thanks for the info.  I will definitely be contacting Bob Thon to ask him if he could make me a Standard Gauge Milwaukee Road DL 109.

Bob Nelson

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

navy.seal posted:

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

The Marx O #21 was all tin and close to scale in size. It shows that it can be done. Unique Art did it also, but compromised and used plastic for the upper cowl section. An increase of about 30% of any of these would make a quite attractive unit. I'd love to see it happen, but no one seems to want to bother with lithography.  Also provided is a photo of a diesel that WAS in the mock up stage.

Steve

Steve,

Who is/was "Ameritrains" and did they make the mock up of the Olympian Hiawatha?  Also, was the mock up in O or Standard gauge?

Bob Nelson

Bob, Marx Trains became Ameritrains. The prototype was probably done by Jim Flynn. It is 027.

Steve

Steve,

Do you have any contact information for either Ameritrains and/or Jim Flynn you could provide to me?

Bob Nelson

navy.seal posted:

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

navy.seal posted:

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

The Marx O #21 was all tin and close to scale in size. It shows that it can be done. Unique Art did it also, but compromised and used plastic for the upper cowl section. An increase of about 30% of any of these would make a quite attractive unit. I'd love to see it happen, but no one seems to want to bother with lithography.  Also provided is a photo of a diesel that WAS in the mock up stage.

Steve

Steve,

Who is/was "Ameritrains" and did they make the mock up of the Olympian Hiawatha?  Also, was the mock up in O or Standard gauge?

Bob Nelson

Bob, Marx Trains became Ameritrains. The prototype was probably done by Jim Flynn. It is 027.

Steve

Steve,

Do you have any contact information for either Ameritrains and/or Jim Flynn you could provide to me?

Bob Nelson

Bob

I prefer not to give out their e-mail or phone without their permission. The Marx/Ameritrains has been out of business for some time. They do continue to buy and sell collections etc via their E--Bay store. http://stores.ebay.com/JDPLTD?_rdc=1

Steve

navy.seal posted:

 

Carey,

Is the above streamliner Standard Gauge and, if it is, who made it?

Bob Nelson

Bob,

This is Bob Thon's G gauge e-unit. Pretty sure that he has only built them in G. The shell is a little narrow for standard, and you would have to clip off the ladders to fit the wider trucks. I intend to visit Bob sometime this summer to talk about this and the wider F units that he produced. I bought a pair of the F7 shells from him and will attempt to build a good running drive for them. I know that Bob has some unsold stock of the E units, but as I said, probably a long shot for STD.

In the tooling I got from Lee Lines, there is a pattern for the nose of a shovel nose E unit in Standard. Not sure if a part was ever made, I think he intended to build something akin to the EMD 'Train of Tomorrow', using the fluted passenger car sides and roofs as the back of the engine. There are also 6 wheel truck castings and something that looks like the engine blisters for the two engines on top of the roof. I'll take some pictures and provide.

NWSL made a very nice 6 wheel drive in G, could probably be re-axled for STD, but they are not cheap, somewhere around $300 per truck!!

Jim Waterman

> Would You Buy A Tinplate Standard Gauge Diesel Streamliner?

More than one, absolutely.  Looking for anyone who will make Standard Gauge metal engines and cars especially those which would have been running in the 1950s.

Rich

Short answer is yes I would. However there is a bigger question here. If the major mass producers of Std. gauge products built more modern prototypes would they sell? I would go for some modern Std. However I may be in the minority. There lies the quandary the manufacturers cannot produce the tooling without the market being there but the market isn't there is folks don't see the product.

I would,i was so excited when mth said they were going to do a subway set,i even ordered two,sadly ,they backed out,i will never forgive then for that,,,anything else yes,i would love to see box couplers on standard gauge,which would have been a natural progression if standard would have lasted longer in the 30ths 

No

It would be different.

Problems would be on the what scale would a standard scale be? Everything old would be out or just a new scale prototypes for Standard Gauge, hence another class of trains.

I myself would still like the toy look rather than a real scale prototype in standard gauge.

For me knuckle couplers would be out, as I could not lash them up to the Prewar standard gauge cars without altering them on all makes prewar locos and cars that I own (including McCoy).

Just my opinion and would it appeal to a person that has prewar standard gauge trains?

the lti set,hiawatha and the Vanderbilt were scale standard,at least the vandy engine was and the hi,both engine and cars,thats why I would believe box couplers would be better,they worked with an uncoupleing track or would with dcs,just my 2 cents

If money were no object, I'd love to own a DeHanes Santa Fe set. 

Made my. Own.. USA pass cars..just re gauge wheels..those are aluminum.. Aristo are plastic...