Would You Not Buy An Engine Based On The Age of The Electronics?

I'd stay away from new, unless you had an airtight return option; might be tough getting it fixed from a parts and warranty standpoint.  I'd feel more comfortable w/ used, paying used price(s), of course.

No, I would not be dissuaded from purchasing a locomotive because of its age. Some of my best running locomotives are from the early days of the "electronics age"  - MTH, Weaver, K-Line, Atlas, Lionel and Weaver included and they run fine. I've needed to have a few things repaired over time but they were taken care of and all is well.

 

This statement will probably raise some eyebrows on this forum but I'm particularly fond of MTH locomotives equipped with the original Protosounds system. They just keep running and running and running. In summary, unlike some accounts I've read on this site, reliability of electronic equipped motive power has not been a problem for me.     

 

Bob   

The MTH 5V PS2 is the one that you'll have a hard time getting repaired.  You can tell the 5v vs the 3v by the battery charging port underneath the engine. The 5v has a round port while the 3v has more of a square port.

 

Sunrise

The only engines I would hesitate buying would be PS1 engines, because of the possibility that the chip(s) is/are scrambled due to a low battery.  But if the seller says it's good or you can verify that it runs prior to purchasing, then the battery in the PS1 can be replaced with a BCR.  If buying from a LHS or at a show I'd get them to run it first.  All the Greenberg shows I've been to in the last 5 years or so have had test tracks where someone will test run your engines.

 

Electronics in general usually suffer from what is called "Infant Mortality":

 

One characteristic of modern semiconductor electronic equipment is something called infant mortality. The failure rate of new electronic equipment is generally very low. However, if the equipment is going to fail, it is likely to do so within the first few hundred hours of operation. Failure within this time period is called an infant mortality failure and is usually caused by a flaw in a semiconductor or other electronic component. Simply having the equipment power turned on is often enough to cause this type of failure to occur. If the equipment does not fail in the first few hundred hours of operation, then it will probably provide many years of trouble free operation.

Read here:

http://www.cvarc.org/tech/burnin.html

 

I've 3 PS2 engines that are pre-2005 and all work well with original batteries still in them.  I do have a RailKing RS3 with Locosound that, below 50 degrees, has to warm up before I can change direction.  I found that out when I had my layout in the garage.  After the heater warmed the room enough the engine ran fine.  Since I've moved the layout to the upstairs in my house I have not had a problem.

 

But there's always a possibility.  If the previous owner had had lousy trackwork resulting in numerous derailments, I'd suspect some possible electronics failure is inevitable.  I read comments on the forum about folks having trouble with their engines and wonder what REALLY happened.  I knew a guy that was always complaining about his boat.  I found out later that he just couldn't leave things alone and was always fooling with the engine, go figure

Yes but not because I am afraid that they will break down, but because of features. I would not buy a PS1 locomotive because it is not command control, and I would not buy anything Lionel below RS 4.0 because of the sound quality.

 

I bought a 1996 Lionel TMCC GP9 at a show once.  No issues with the electronics and the sounds are great.

I don't buy PS1 anymore.  Too many problems.  

 

Newer electronics? I have had some problems with new locos, but not the electronics.

I have no problem trying to fix electronics in older locomotives.

Any PS-1 locos I buy promptly get their guts removed and replaced with TMCC.

Remember when two new brushes, a set of reverse fingers and drum along with a drop of oil and some grease and you were in business. 

The title of this post would fit the tune of of AQUARIUS from the group hair!

Yes, I do.

 

Nice to see you post Jim.

 

Fred

I have often thought that a growing group, including myself, will not buy older brand new trains because they don't have the software and features. I know there is tons of older stock out there, that's how the hobby always worked. I can walk in my LHS and buy brand new unopened box items that are over 5 years old and more. 

 

Having some 2012 Legacy engines with sequence control I now will only buy 2012 and above Legacy. I will only buy PS3 MTH engines. 

 

Of course I will still buy rolling stock from all periods. I will also buy pre and post war engines. As electronics go I only want the latest releases. 

Jim, I remember it like it was yesterday...it was. Lol. I still like to tinker with the old stuff. I was looking over my post war parts inventory, amazing how much you can accumulate. The new stuff I have very few parts for, I'm learning about the electronics but it will take me some time. I wish there was an online course for it that starts with 101 electronics. I read some of the posts from the electronic gurus and I just don't understand a lot of it. 

I've bought a few brand new in the box MTH engines from years past. Most recently, a 2006 dash 8 about a month ago... Fired up right out of the box. Sure, I guess the risk is always there, but if the price is right, it's worth it.

Parts are the key to repairs. Without them you can do nothing. With them you can accomplish a lot. Today, I don't know if the companies stock a huge inventory. For repairs, its a MUST. I believe if our trains were made here in America, there would be plenty of parts for repairs.

of course nothing new coming from China manufacturers, in any field; they don't produce spare parts. "Why peoples will repair our products when we have new one to sell ". 

Good to hear some replies. 

 

I should clarify that I'm not talking about buying PS1 locomotives, PS2 in my case. I thought I made it clear in my original post but perhaps I didn't. I'm really talking about 2007/2008 and newer. Regardless, it seems that no one would really have any objections to buying "older" PS2 locomotives. 

 

Good to hear. It eases my concerns a bit. 

 

For the record, I also have some older PS2 engines, 2005, 2006 range. I bought them new, with the 3 volt boards. One, a Rugged Rails F3 (the really short one), came in a B&O Freight RTR Set is either close to or has exceeded 4K trouble free miles. Another, a Railking Scale PRR AS-616, a former Premier line engine, has a few less miles, and had a few minor issues down the road but has been more or less trouble free. 

Only one of my engines had to go back for repairs, and as Bob noted, it was not long out of the box, infant mortality.

All in all, I've not had much in the way of problems with my trains, new or used.

And I'm still running some PS-1 Galloping Geese. I just love the sound sequences in them.

And they sound GREAT! I suspect it's the space for a decent size speaker making the most difference.

In any case, it depends how much you may really want the engine. I had been looking for an MTH Erie Triplex for many years and found a new one at York that Vinny was offering for sale. I purchased it and walked down the aisle a few feet and gave it to TAS (when they were still in business) to convert, as FLASH does, to TMCC.

 

I was very happy to have found the engine and I really did not care what electronic version was installed in it.

I'm prone to going with the latest electronics although that can be a risk.

 

Bob C.

Regardless, it seems that no one would really have any objections to buying "older" PS2 locomotives.

I think that's the key.

 

The RK NW2 with PS2 I have was bought just before uncle Jimmy Sutter retired, but it was an early offering from MTH.  It was actually hard to find because I wanted one in Seaboard colors and Jim had the only one I could find.  As it turned out, Barry Broskowitz had one on the sale board shortly after I bought mine...timing is everything.  I my case I don't have very good timing but I'm still happy to be one of uncle Jimmy's last customers.

If the electronics were available at a reasonable price would chance it, if I like the locomotive.

I have never bought an engine and returned it for my money back. I know some of the top repair guys, if they had to make a living off my repairs, they would starve .Thank goodness for them, though.

 

Rod

Electronics can be quite tough - or not.

 

I have locos over 20 years old with electronics that run flawlessly. My first TMCC loco,

the sub-scale N&W Warhorse 4-8-4 (mine is now a closer-to-scale K-2 4-8-2) has been

totally faithful. It runs rather poorly, however; but because of the gearing/Pullmor, not the TMCC.

This is really old stuff, but I wouldn't buy the mighty Sound of Steam.  I know some people like it, but I had a bad one and that was enough for me.

Alan

I have some first run TMCC stuff from the 90's as well as a couple of old PS/2 locomotives, they've been no problem at all.  While I'd rather have the later electronics, older stuff doesn't stop me from buying if it's priced right.

SJC, I STILL buy MTH PS1 and have had NO problems. Sometimes PS1 have saved the day at some of our shows if you know what I mean.

 

...keep the rails polished...

As more engines are produced with electronics the status of those electronics becomes important when buying a used engine. Bad electronics in a used engine would not stop me from buying it if the price reflected the fact that the electronics were shot. New replacement electronics can be had at resonable prices and they are not hard to install. Of cource if you are the one selling the engine the status of the electronics could be a killer.

 

Al

I backed out after PS1. I could see where this was going. The trains themselves became secondary to the play value of the gadgetry that controls them, which is not my cup of tea. Too indirect. While we have enough variety of soon to be outmoded or obsolete electronics to rival the Pentagon, our choices and \or variety of road power are pretty narrow in that everything is practically mainline heavy type stuff that while it leaves little to the imagination as to what it can do. I can do that at no cost and I actually use a throttle handle. I would rather buy more engines than electronics but most of the models I relate to as having "been there, done that." whether it's FA, PA, Geep or whatnot. Theres no right or wrong to it. As far as quality, longevity, etc, it's a roll of the dice. I can take any engine now in my roster and fix it very inexpensively. Motor brushes and light bulbs are the most common maintenance headaches and those are rare.

I don't buy any locos or operating accessories from anyone but an authorized dealer, the item must be young enough to still be under the manufacturer's waranty, and I always get a receipt and keep them all in a shoebox.

I buy whatever appeals to me. The worst thing that can happen is you have to fix or get it fixed. Now that I have been playing with installing TMCC in some older and newer units I feel that worst that can happen it I get to do another upgrade project. Usually by now the older defective electronics have been sorted out, not always, but usually. Yes, I have a PS 1 loco and last year our club had those running for many hours when some of the "newer" units seemed to act up or tire. I think that each unit has its own charm and if you like what it does then what electronics it has are of no consequence.

I bought an older Lionel steam engine at one of the big auction houses. They stated the engine had been in storage all the time and the box was sealed. All was true. Only problem the sound system didn't work. You just don't know where or how things are stored. Don

Yes, I guess it's safe to say that I tend to avoid the older technologies.  With MTH, for example, all of my purchases from this point on will be PS3.  I have a great many PS2 locomotives (no longer have any original ProtoSounds units) and will certainly hold onto them since they all represent roads I am focused on, but from this point on everything will need to be PS3.

Unlike automobiles, modern electric train boards use the cheapest quality electronic components available. They can best be described as "just good enough" to function but it would be a stretch to say that the electonics was designed and built to last a long time.  It would not be terrible if replacement boards were available but more times than not there is no availablity.  The only company selling replacement boards ( for their stuff only) is Williams. Try to get a replacemnt board for a Lionel or MTH piece thats 5 years or older and you'll see what I mean. People say that I am stuck in the stone age as I only run conventional trains BUT the problems are small, infrequent and are easily and cheaply repaired. While I enjoy and embrace technological advances like the can motors, I love reliability more.

I'm not sure what you're talking about as far as Lionel TMCC, I have spares for the R2LC, and the RailSounds boards, and they're readily available.  I've had no problem keeping 40 some command locomotives running, and the problems have been surprisingly few.  For MTH PS2 with the 5V boards, that sometimes is a problem, as it seem you have to replace the whole shooting match if anything fails.

I just purchased at York two PS2 locomotives

Sorry hit the send button to quick... One was from 2001 and the other 2006... Both railking and both NOS ....no problems with either both loaded on the DCS remote and ran fine.

Your question brings up a couple of points. 

 

One, engines with older electronics are hard if not impossible to get parts for and repair. 

 

Two, engines with electronics will not hold their value very well, over time so enjoy them now.

 

I will buy engines with old "electrics" like 2035, 2056 etc.  I can find parts and repair.  But they do not sound as good and lack other bell and whistles.

 

My other hobby is vintage stereo.  The older transistor 1970 receivers can usually still be repaired and parts are available.  Newer ones with integrated circuits and digital displays often can not be repaired after only few years.

 

Charlie

I actually came across this situation at York. There was a steam beauty that cought my eye, a good deal, but old MTH electronics. I have a lot of stuff, actually wouldn't know where to put it, I like what I have now. So I can be very picky, and the older electronics wouldn't break my wallet.