Y6b derailing on Ross O-72 Tinplate turnouts

Sam,
make sure those points are tucked inside the stock rail , they shouldn't stick out any at all . If you have to take a pair of needle nose and gently bend the tips towards the stock rail so they're flush when thrown.
Sounds like one point is going over enough but the other one isn't if you know what I mean.
Hope this helps.

David

And maybe evaluate the machine connection that holds the point to the rail, see if it is strong enough for the job.

 

Some engines are "Pickers" while others are mashers. =)

I have had the same problem with the same locomotive on Fastrack switches. The front pilot wheels are a little too narrow gauge. My solution was to attach 1/4 oz. sticky weights made for pinewood derby cars on top of them which helped quite a bit. I think I ended up using 2 weights. I hope this helps you!

Andy J.
Member TCA & TTOS

I have encountered this problem from time to time over the years.   The solution was almost always to file or grind the end of the point rail to "sharpen" it so that the wheel flange does not catch any more.  

 

I recently had to do this on a couple of new fastrack switches, because this one particular engine's wheel flange kept catching on the point rail end,causing the wheel to "jump" and make a popping sound.  While it did not derail, the sound bothered me.  A minute with a small file smoothed the rail end and problem solved.  

 

I hope this simple technique works for you. 

Hi, I have the MTH Y6b Rail King engine and I had the same problem with a Ross O-72 switch. All my other engines would make the switch, that sits at the top of a long grade but that articulated unit would not make it. The pilot truck would go through ok but then the first drive assembly would go off in the wrong direction.

 

What I found was because of the position of the switch that was installed on the approach grade. When I built the piers height naturally I wonted to keep the grade as low as possible so I thought I could get away with half inch grade from one end of the switch to the other if I kept it level left to right and well supported. Yea right!

It did work for all my diesel and smaller steamers but the Y6b did not like it at all.

 

What I had to do was level the switch and a three foot approch to it on the top side of the viaduct. This forced me to live with a three foot section of track that has a 10 percent grade to it. There is no way I was going to rebuild the whole twenty feet of the viaduct deck.

 

The DCS engines have no problem negotiating that grade, though I do have to be careful when useing a TMCC or conventional engine when going down.

 

I doubt if your problem is due to the issue I had but I thought it would fun to share with all the need for a balanced and level switch as well as the approaches to it.

 

Have Fun,

Mario E.

I had a similar issue with a 3rd Rail Y3b on a curved switch.   The blind driver was catching and therefore pushing the points over.  The issue was the point rails were slightly higher then the rail head.   I used a dremel to grind down the points rail so that it wasn't above the rail head.   Problem solved.

 

 

All my switches are on flat level in all directions surface. 

 

I tried tying up the front pilot truck off the rails to see if the pilot wheels were culpert. nope, the first driver set derailed.  Backing up the rear drivers derailed.

 

I removed all pickup rollers and slid the engine through and drivers derail.  I can feel the driver bump, snag,  or catch right where the points meet the frog rails, but there is just a very very slight discontinuity, not enough that it should cause a problem..

 

I examined the driver flanges thinking they were worn knife sharp but their profile looks like my other steamer and diesel flanges to the naked eye and magnifying glass.

 

I am going to slide a micrometer through the switch and see if it pinches somewhere.

 

Rapidly running out of ideas.  Same thing happens when engine goes through the mirror image switches at other siding end.

 

Maybe the super will have to issue a general order forbidding the Y6b from entering siding 1.

Well Dremeling the curve points didn't help as I reshaped the point as much as I dared and even very sligtly bent the tip inwards hoping to get tighter fit.  I super glued some narrow plastic strips on inside approach to point hoping they would help push the wheels over but the driver flange stil manages to cut right between the pivot and stock rails.  Although I stated previously that flanges looked OK a second look and micrometer shows they are almost razor sharp rather than round blunt like other engines. 

 

Are ther other MTH Y6b owners (30-1163-1) who could verify if the driver flanges are razor thin sharp or they are rounded blunt.  Are all Y6b flanges like this so they can negotiate curves and O-31 switches?  If mine are misshaped, I guess I could see if MTH or an ASC could put on new drivers.  Or maybe I am just out of luck stuck duck.

 

Finally does anyone at Ross ever answer the phone or is it just an dead end answer machine?  Sent several e-mails about this problem to Steve Ross.  Zip answers. 

My solution was to micrometer the web and cut a plastic strip to that width and super glue it to the web.  I then micrometer from the rail base to top of rail and increased a couple of tenth inches more to dimension then cut a strip that extended from point end to end of switch.  After super gluing and letting it set for 24 hrs, I Dremeled and fine sandpapered the tall plastic down to rail top and tapered the ends.

 

The points can "hide" behind the plastic.  The Y6b wheels hit the plastic that forces the wheels over so they roll onto the points rather than picking and splitting the points.

 

Here are pictures of the surgery.  Of course if Ross had done this right this would not be necessary.

 

 

rrman, Have you contacted Ross about this problem?

They have very good support for the products.

Yes phoned (to answer machine) and sent e-mails.  Like that iconic Simon & Garfunkle song, all I have  heard is "Sounds of Silence" from Ross.

I have to think I am wasting my time, but here goes. I will  qualify my question to you with the following: I have a looooot of Ross switches, including curved switches and 3 Y6's, 3 A's, several Y3's. So my question is:I note in the pics that you have innumerable screws holding the switch down to the table, is it possible that you have too many screws which may cause a wrapping of the switch; perhaps some screws are screwed in a bit further than others? just a thought.

 

These are tinplate switch and not the Gargrave rail style switches.  All those screws are the way the switch was made which seems an odd design, unless they are trying to emulated rail spikes.  I have not tampered with the screws and I made sure the surfaces were level before placing the switch to prevent problems if there was distortion.

Thanks for suggestion.

David,

I will check out the flange vs the screw head heights.  Never thought about those screwheads.  Thank goodness for digital readout micrometers!!

Hi Dave,

Checked tonight. From top of rail to top pf screw head is 0.239".  From driver flange edge to driver flat is 0.075". So there is about a 0.164" gap between flange edge and screw head top.

 

Apparently, the MTH Y6b driver mechanism has to straighten out and be centered sufficently before hitting the next switch curve, otherwise if it continues in a turn, that flange continues rubbing along the outside curve, hits the point, digging right between it and stock rail, splitting switch and derailing. 

 

At least that is how I see it as I have slid the engine back and forth through the switch.  If I keep my fingers on the driver mechanism forcing it away from outer switch rail then engine runs through without splitting the switch.

 

On my old KLines, they notched out the rail such that the points slid into a cavity so a rubbing flange would not pick the points, but hit the curve point and continued into the turn.
 

I have a Railking USRA Mallet which is very similar to a Y6b, may even have the same wheels and drive mechanism. Its flanges are quite sharp.

Sam,

Sounds like you have something there. I guess the only solution in your case is to try a current production Ross switch there. I have the MTH Imperial Big Boy and the same 0-72 switches and have had no trouble.
I just went out and inspected one of my switches and here are some things I would check.
Check the tension with the switch thrown . Is it tight? Mine have spring loaded under the table switch machines and it's very hard to get my finger nail of my index finger between the switch point and the stock rail to move the points.
In both positions are the points even or slightly below the stock rail?
If for some odd reason they set "high" the wheel can pick the switch anything that allows it a little leverage it'll turn into a lot
In both positions feel right at where the points hit the stock rail both on top and inside. Are they smooth is there a burr? Mine are very smooth and almost "tuck" inside the stock rail

One last thing that I just thought of remembering my switch trouble shooting.
A train guru once said when trouble shooting switches that more often than not that something out of sink on the left side of a switch would transmit to a "Noticeable" problem on the right side of the switch and vice versa.

Would it or could it be possible the the front roller is hitting the switch point that's NOT resting against the stock rail and by doing so forcing a gap just long enough for the front wheel to pick the switch?
Those switch points are insulated so you wouldn't see any arching and if you didn't see it at exactly the right moment you'd miss it.
Hope this helps
David