York April and October 2023

Nope, but it doesn't change my plans to go to York.

I can't understand how 1 manufacturer/dealer not being there makes the difference of going or not going to York.

This should be moved to the York forum.

  Lionel will be at the Rocky Mountain Train show April 1st and 2nd. Come out and enjoy a plate of Rocky Mountain Oysters !

Don’t think you will see them next month, maybe in October 2023.
Still won’t change my plans on attending York.  

@Billyboy posted:

Is anybody aware if Lionel plans to show at either of these meets ?

Don't know but it doesn't change my plans to go to York.

Stu

I will still go, but I have to say, it's pretty sad that they can't bother to come to what is billed as the largest TCA event. The dealer hall is getting pretty sparce... The last 3 the member halls have out shined the dealer halls. Lots of missing dealers and manufacturers.

@CHOO-CHOO MIKE posted:

  Lionel will be at the Rocky Mountain Train show April 1st and 2nd. ...

@Berg posted:

I will still go, but I have to say, it's pretty sad that they can't bother to come to what is billed as the largest TCA event. The dealer hall is getting pretty sparce... The last 3 the member halls have out shined the dealer halls. Lots of missing dealers and manufacturers.

Lionel's presence has no bearing on my attendance or enjoyment of York.  However, their absence says to me that they take the buyers of their high dollar items for granted.  IMO, a manufacturer's presence at an event like York is about more building awareness and goodwill than short term profits.  I drive farther to get to York than Lionel does, and yet they're planning to go 2000 miles west...  Not a good look.

The LCCA will be there in the ORANGE HALL ROW KK-7. We will have lots of club product and Lionel.

SAL GAMBINO/PRESIDENT

@clem k posted:

I does one preregister for York ?  I have not got anything in the mail.

The mailing of meet notices seems very unreliable lately.  I didn't get one, but I preregistered at the meet in October (that's the easiest way).

Googling it led me to https://www.yorkregistration.org/

@Mallard4468 posted:

Lionel's presence has no bearing on my attendance or enjoyment of York.  However, their absence says to me that they take the buyers of their high dollar items for granted.  IMO, a manufacturer's presence at an event like York is about more building awareness and goodwill than short term profits.  I drive farther to get to York than Lionel does, and yet they're planning to go 2000 miles west...  Not a good look.

Maybe Lionel is tired of York.

Is it Lionel that doesn't want to go to York or York not wanting Lionel?

How come Lionel always gets the blame here?  I see a lot of dealers and some other manufacturers not attending but that doesn't seem to draw the ire of this group like Lionel.  I'm sure they have their reasons for not attending and as others have pointed out it doesn't change my going or not.  The only way it affects me is if I need to see if I can get a Legacy meeting going.

Lionel is nice to see but they aren’t selling anything.   A bigger loss was Scenic Express  attending after they moved out west.   They had tons of great stuff for sale.

@MartyE posted:

Is it Lionel that doesn't want to go to York or York not wanting Lionel?

How come Lionel always gets the blame here?  I see a lot of dealers and some other manufacturers not attending but that doesn't seem to draw the ire of this group like Lionel.  I'm sure they have their reasons for not attending and as others have pointed out it doesn't change my going or not.  The only way it affects me is if I need to see if I can get a Legacy meeting going.

Less dealers due to BUILT TO ORDER, dealers don't have the excess inventory they once had.

@Arthur posted:

Less dealers due to BUILT TO ORDER, dealers don't have the excess inventory they once had.

Why would that be?  If the dealer orders 20 locomotives, whether BTO or not, what difference does that make?  Mr. Muffin, TW, Pat's and others are always ordering excess above what they have orders for.  They basically are just adding to the numbers built.  All that it means is Lionel doesn't have an excess sitting at the warehouse.

Lionel is tired of people complaing about spending thousands for inferior products that don’t provide details we pay for.

@MartyE posted:

Why would that be?  If the dealer orders 20 locomotives, whether BTO or not, what difference does that make?  Mr. Muffin, TW, Pat's and others are always ordering excess above what they have orders for.  They basically are just adding to the numbers built.  All that it means is Lionel doesn't have an excess sitting at the warehouse.

Not enough excess stock to make the trip to York worthwhile, can easily sell what they have on-line. That's why no more Trainland, Charles Ro, etc.

"Lionel is tired of people complaing about spending thousands for inferior products that don’t provide details we pay for."

You must be buying the wrong Lionel products .  Mine are much less expensive than yours and somehow really quite nice.  My details are fine too.

You guys have it wrong. The reason Lionel & Trainworld are not going to York is, they don't want to spend the money it cost them to go. They have to come with 3 or 4 people, put them up in a hotel for several days, and feed them.

I'm perfectly happy looking for 1970 to 1985 Lionel in the member halls and in the front section of the  Orange hall.  York started as member to member meet and seems to be heading back to those roots.   I can meet and chat with the manufacturers at the West Springfield, MA. show.   

@Arthur posted:

Not enough excess stock to make the trip to York worthwhile, can easily sell what they have on-line. That's why no more Trainland, Charles Ro, etc.

This makes no sense. They buy what they think they can sell. I don’t really see this changing at the retailer level.

Are you implying before BTO they just bought a ton of stuff but now that it’s BTO they buy less?  If they bought 20 engines before, why wouldn’t they buy 20 now on top of the preorders which were always done anyways.

BTO does only one thing, keeps Lionel’s warehouse void of excess stock.

@eddie g posted:

You guys have it wrong. The reason Lionel & Trainworld are not going to York is, they don't want to spend the money it cost them to go. They have to come with 3 or 4 people, put them up in a hotel for several days, and feed them.

Eddie:

That may be, but if it is, why are they going to other meets and shows?

Pat

I think we had this debate last spring and last fall about Lionel and York.  

@Lyinel posted:

I think we had this debate last spring and last fall about Lionel and York.  

Almost every discussion about York is lather...rinse...repeat...

Irish Rifle, Also the prices for their tables at York are a lot higher than at other shows.

@eddie g posted:

Irish Rifle, Also the prices for their tables at York are a lot higher than at other shows.

Eddie:

True, but they are seeing far more customers and potential customers at York than at the other meets and shows... .

Pat

I’ve been told Lionel had a falling out with the Eastern TCA.  Don’t know it it’s true, don’t really care.  I’m more concerned of all the dealers that don’t go.

I miss Lionel, Ro, Scenic Express, et al who no longer populate the Orange Hall. I’m sure they have their reasons and I’m not second guessing them (I’m assuming it’s a pure business decision on their end). But, I do miss them at the show and it’s not as enjoyable for me (personally) without them.  

If Lionel isn’t there it makes no difference to me. What I miss is vendors like Scenic Express and all the other dealers that really sell items. I go to see friends and look for items other than just locomotives and rolling stock. Not going in April but probably be there in October.

Just kinda seems like every show is getting less and less product, and more and more empty tables. The October show was like the beginning of the Christmas season for me, and with Lionel and MTH gone and the larger dealers bailing, not so much anymore. Just a shame.

@Berg posted:

Just kinda seems like every show is getting less and less product, and more and more empty tables. The October show was like the beginning of the Christmas season for me, and with Lionel and MTH gone and the larger dealers bailing, not so much anymore. Just a shame.

There are a number of reasons for this: inflation and the economy more generally; Covid-19, declining member attendance, internet sales, changes in ownership of certain dealers, relocation of businesses, etc. BTW, both MTH and ATLAS O attended the October 2022 York Meet.

Certain large dealers like CharlesRo and Nicholas Smith decided not to attend any more shows. In the case of RO, the passing of Charlie Sr. had a lot to do with their decision and Chris' sale of Nicholas Smith had a lot to do with their decision.  Jim moved Scenic Express from Pennsylvania to Colorado, so the economics for attending York Meets changed dramatically for him. Scenic Express did attend the Amherst Show in January, but that is a much larger show and caters to all scales, not just O.

Stockyard Express was not at the October York Meet because Clyde has just had a medical procedure. As we all know from a prior Forum topic, there was some kind of a dispute between Lionel and the Eastern Division that stopped Lionel from attending the October York Meet. (Lionel had previously decided not to attend the April York Meets.) Hopefully, they will resolve their issues. TrainWorld was at the October York Meet, but left the Meet very early. I'm not sure what their plans are for the future.

That said, there are still plenty of excellent train dealers at the York Meets such as Grzyboski's, Just Trains, Stockyard Express, Mr. Muffin, Nassau Hobby, the Train Shop at Brentwood Antiques, Trainz, Henning's and Ralph's. More generally, there have been approximately 140-150 vendors in the Orange Hall, including the train dealers, at recent York Meets.

Pat 

@irish rifle posted:

There are a number of reasons for this: inflation and the economy more generally; Covid-19, declining member attendance, internet sales, changes in ownership of certain dealers, relocation of businesses, etc. BTW, both MTH and ATLAS O attended the October 2022 York Meet.

Certain large dealers like CharlesRo and Nicholas Smith decided not to attend any more shows. In the case of RO, the passing of Charlie Sr. had a lot to do with their decision and Chris' sale of Nicholas Smith had a lot to do with their decision.  Jim moved Scenic Express from Pennsylvania to Colorado, so the economics for attending York Meets changed dramatically for him. Scenic Express did attend the Amherst Show in January, but that is a much larger show and caters to all scales, not just O.

Stockyard Express was not at the October York Meet because Clyde has just had a medical procedure. As we all know from a prior Forum topic, there was some kind of a dispute between Lionel and the Eastern Division that stopped Lionel from attending the October York Meet. (Lionel had previously decided not to attend the April York Meets.) Hopefully, they will resolve their issues. TrainWorld was at the October York Meet, but left the Meet very early. I'm not sure what their plans are for the future.

That said, there are still plenty of excellent train dealers at the York Meets such as Grzyboski's, Just Trains, Stockyard Express, Mr. Muffin, Nassau Hobby, the Train Shop at Brentwood Antiques, Trainz, Henning's and Ralph's. More generally, there have been approximately 140-150 vendors in the Orange Hall, including the train dealers, at recent York Meets.

Pat

Chris did not sell Nicholas Smith.  Joey just left to do other things and they have a new manager and staff running the place.

Scenic Express, attended the Amherst show last Jan.  That's as far east as you can get from Colorado  without stepping in @eddie g living room.  IF Scenic is willing to travel to that show, figure they would be willing to do York again.

Scenic Express was my first stop in the Orange Hall. I do hope they return to York.  

Gary, you are funny.

@Sean's Train Depot posted:

Chris did not sell Nicholas Smith.  Joey just left to do other things and they have a new manager and staff running the place.

Sean:

Thanks for the correction. Much appreciated. The fact remains however that Nicholas Smith is no longer attending the York Meets, which was the point I was attempting to make.

Pat

The reality is it's more cost effective to do the Zooms and other social media events.  Lionel is a pretty small company and they probably have to do the social media stuff, to reach maximal numbers of hobbyists and dealers. They are going to be pretty selective about which events they attend in person.   Reaching out to the unconverted will be a priority rather than preaching to the choir, so to speak, is my guess.

I'm sure they'd come to York at least in October if they could resolve whatever disagreements they have with the Eastern Division leadership.  Probably a temporary glitch but the future is social media, not solely or primarily in person events.  Their future as a company is with 15 and 25 year olds, not us older folks, who already have imbibed the mystic fluids .

@Arthur posted:

Less dealers due to BUILT TO ORDER, dealers don't have the excess inventory they once had.

I'm not understanding WHY there would be fewer dealers due to Lionel's BTO program.  Humm.  I think this hypothersis isn't going anywhere....

BTW, MTH started it's own "BTO" program way back in 2005-2007 era ... MAYBE THAT caused fewer dealers???  (Nah.)