York Comparison

I've been to York, Timonium, Allentown, and various Greenberg shows, though not the Monroeville location.  Timonium didn't have that much O-scale in the times I've been there, but I have to say I got some good deals, maybe because it was so scarce there.  I haven't been to the Big E, but the feedback I get is O-scale is not the big dog there, so I still lean to York and Allentown.  Also, the Big E is way farther, so I have to consider a six hour drive one-way in the planning.  York is less than two hours, and Allentown is less than an hour.

I went to the Big E show several years ago and was reasonably unimpressed with the selection of O-gauge and Standard Gauge.  I did pick up some modeling supplies.  I live in the north western part of NJ and it's not worth the drive for me.  We did stay over and ended up going to the Sprinfield Armory musuem and the NBA hall of fame.  Those were worth the side trips.

Allentown was always my second favorite to York.  I don't bother with Greenberg shows as the 1 or 2 that I went to years ago had almost no O-gauge.

Wow, Andy!  That was a bit of work!

I have only been to York and the Monroeville Greenberg show.  I went to York twice before covid, and of course it is better by far.  However, having to figure in 5 hours drive each way (as opposed to 1-1/4 hour), toll, hotel, meals; I don't have any money left for trains.    I wouldn't mind going to Allentown someday, but given it is farther than York, I haven't gone.

While Springfield might not have as much O scale for sale, it has dozens and dozens of operating layouts in all scales and sizes. For some people, seeing other actual layouts serve as entertainment and encouragement to work on our own layouts. For those people who just go to shows to buy O scale trains, though, then they probably consider the layouts a hinderance to getting around.

Personally, I do want to get to York sometime. But, at Springfield I like how once I run out of money I still can spend hours walking around Springfield and still watch all of the layouts operate.

I've been to many York shows (all of them between 1992 and 2020), and a bunch of Big E shows, Allentown shows and Greenberg (Edison and Phoenixville). IMO, nothing compares to York if you want to purchase O gauge trains. It has (had?) lots of dealers and an awful lot of members who wish to "shrink the herd". You get some of that in Allentown and the Big E but nowhere near as much. Plus, York spreads over several days and provides for more and better social interaction. The Big E does a bit of that but Allentown and Greenberg have very little of that. IMO, York is far and away the best. I'd rank the Big E a distant second. Allentown and Greenberg are further behind (again, just my opinion) but you could love either or both of them if you get that "great deal".

Gerry

Ben, like you I like looking at layouts.  Andy the OP knows that from me hanging around his club layout at the Greenberg show and other lesser venues.  I also like seeing folks I know.

I went to York twice in my life. First time with my young family back in the mid 1990s, then in Oct. 2022. Best thing in the mid 1990s was visiting the Choo Choo Barn in Strasburg where I was blown away by their magnificent store layout and bought my 1st set of Kramer Products O Scale metal baseball figures that I treasure. At the Oct 2022 York show, my favorite thing was meeting in person several of you folks on the OGR Online Forum. My train purchases were modest at both York shows, which is what I wanted.

I have been to the Big E 3 times in the past 4 years. Its major attraction for me was the scenery materials,  marine model railroads items (boats and barges), Artissta figures and the show's location (its much closer to me than York).

Because I felt I have way more than enough trains, my main purpose for attending these shows was not to buy more trains. I enjoyed both York and the Big E for the different reasons mentioned above, but I'm more inclined to go to the Big E rather than York in the future. Arnold

Interesting to note that York's 2436 tables last spring at 6 feet per table represents about 2 and 3/4 miles of tables plus the distance between rows and between halls. Hard to believe now that I used to make at least 2 laps through all the halls each day of the meet in my youth!!!

Considering that the goal at that time for most of us was to see the maximum amount of O gauge trains for sale, there was no comparison with any other meet. The standing joke was that many of the other meets would fit in just  the restrooms at York!!!

Now that many are also interested, or perhaps more interested, in operating layouts, manufacturer booths, displays, etc., the dynamic has changed, and many may prefer one of the other meets. But, for the "old-timers", York will always be in a class by itself.

Jim

Nice work, Andy!

I have been to numerous Yorks, once to the First Frost, and a couple of times to Timonium.  I've also attended a few Greenberg shows in Monroeville over the years.  I've never attended the Big E.

I love going to York and think it is the best, by far, of all those shows I've experienced.  I was completely underwhelmed by the First Frost (lots of schlock) and have never returned.  Timonium, as stated previously, doesn't have much O, but it is a scale show and sometimes there are a few neat things there.  Greenberg is OK and I've actually picked up some 3-rail items there once upon a time.

George

I didn't know what "schlock" was, so I looked it up on google. now I know.

I didn’t know what “schlock” meant either Eddie.  Now I know too!

@Mark Boyce posted:

I didn’t know what “schlock” meant either Eddie.  Now I know too!

Hey, I'm just keeping it real. 

You expanded our vocabulary, George. 😄

Comparing the York Train Meet to the Amherst Train Show is an apples to oranges comparison. As many have pointed out, York Meets are almost exclusively focused on O gauge, with a smattering of S gauge, and there are dealer and member halls. There are also a few  operating O gauge and one or two S gauge layouts. York Meets are also 3-days long, and are held in April and October. Amherst Train Shows include all gauges, with HO and N gauge being the dominant gauges. It is a two-day Show and is run once a year, in late January. There are a few O Gauge train dealers that attend Amherst Train Shows, but there are far more at a York Meet. There are also a huge number of operating layouts at the Amherst Train Show, but the vast majority are HO, N and Z gauge.

In recent years, one significant advantage that an Amherst Train Show has had is that Lionel always attends. I frequently have a bunch of questions for Ryan, and I find those discussions very helpful. Lionel attended both York Meets for many years, then pivoted to attending only the October Meet, and, most recently, ceased attending both York Meets. Hopefully, that will change at some point in the future.

Both York Meets and Amherst Train Shows are terrific. I typically attend both York Meets and the Amherst Train Show each year. Living in CT, it is far easier for me to get to an Amherst Train Show, as it is about a 90 minute drive. Traveling to and from a York Train Meet is a bear for me, as it typically takes 4 - 4 1/2 hours each way. York Meets are also far more costly for me, as I buy much more, and there are hotel and meal costs as well. I can cover the entire Amherst Train Show in one day, so I have no hotel costs, and I typically buy a lot less, primarily scenery materials.

Pat

None of the shows are as good as they were pre covid, just the nature of things.  There’s a new show in town at the Big E.  The large scale show held in April.  While still small it was well received with a lot of interest from vendors.  In fact they couldn’t accommodate them all.  So they expect to double in size next year. Yes the Amherst show is lacking in O gauge and I’m hopping this new show will fit the bill. Time will tell, at least it’s only a twenty minute drive for me.

Only have been to the Big E, and yes gunrunnerjohn o gauge is not the big dog there I doubt that it would be worth the trip, although it is an impressive show otherwise. As I am o gauge I dream of York, and will have to attend sometime.

@scottyhubcaps posted:

As I am o gauge I dream of York, and will have to attend sometime.

A worthwhile dream.   Personally, I love the social aspects of York, I see lots of people that I correspond with and/or do work for all year.  I never fail to meet some people that I have never met in person before, that's always a great feeling.

Gee JOHN just meeting up with you and spending sometime each YORK is worth the price of admission alone….see you again in October….👍👍

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

A worthwhile dream.   Personally, I love the social aspects of York, I see lots of people that I correspond with and/or do work for all year.  I never fail to meet some people that I have never met in person before, that's always a great feeling.

@laz1957 posted:

Gee JOHN just meeting up with you and spending sometime each YORK is worth the price of admission alone….see you again in October….👍👍

Indeed!  For my money, meeting up with so many forum friends is the real reason I want to go back to York.  I just need to stay healthy and save my pennies!  😄

@Andy Hummell posted:

Mount Hope – 600+ tables.  This number is per their advertising, as no floor maps are currently available.  Also, the event center where this takes place is undergoing an expansion, so this event may grow in the future.

Nice compilation, Andy.

http://cjtrains.com/shows/

Note that the Fall Mt. Hope scheduled for November 4, 2023 has been canceled. The promoter has also released a statement that the shows would likely not continue due to health issues, however they do still plan on continuing the show in Massillon.

TRW

yes absolutely gunrunnerjohn to see all the people associated with the hobby like yourself, and YouTubers that give you inspiration would be very satisfying.thats how I got back into it again.

IMO, you folks got it right when you say what you most like about York is the social aspects of meeting up with people.

That was the primary reason I went in October 2022, and will be the primary reason I will go again, down the road.

To me there is no comparison. I LOVE ALL OF THE SHOWS, MEETS AND GATHERINGS!

I enjoy seeing all scales of trains operating and can get ideas from the many different layouts I see.  Train shows are one of my happy places.

Hi York, is my favorite and eat at Round the Clock diner always finds many things and get to keep in touch with my friends and see as many vendors as possible, always stop at MTH they usually have some parts with them like traction tires and various other things! my next favorite is Allentown always have a great show good food and purchase some great deals passenger car set and run in to many friends at breakfast!

Alan

This will be my first York, really looking forward to meeting a lot of the folks on here.  Being from Colorado and recently Florida, I don't even know what the Big E is?

@Dougklink posted:

This will be my first York, really looking forward to meeting a lot of the folks on here.  Being from Colorado and recently Florida, I don't even know what the Big E is?

The Big E is a multi gauge model train show in Springfield Massachussets that usually takes place in mid to late January each year. The show is very big, maybe the biggest model train show, it has lots of layouts in various gauges on display, and it has lots of scenery materials to purchase and scenery displays. It also has model train items to buy in all gauges.

I went to the Big E 2 years ago with a local train buddy, and we both went crazy with marine model railroad items, mainly boats and barges.

Some of the marine related items I bought appear in the video and photos below of my own layout:

If your main interest in attending a train show is to purchase O Gauge trains, then the York show is better for you. Arnold

@Dougklink posted:

This will be my first York, really looking forward to meeting a lot of the folks on here.  Being from Colorado and recently Florida, I don't even know what the Big E is?

It’s actually called the Amherst train show which is held at the Big E fair grounds In West Springfield mass.  Big E is short for Eastern States Exposition, which is the biggest fair in New England.

@PaperTRW posted:

Nice compilation, Andy.

http://cjtrains.com/shows/

Note that the Fall Mt. Hope scheduled for November 4, 2023 has been canceled. The promoter has also released a statement that the shows would likely not continue due to health issues, however they do still plan on continuing the show in Massillon.

TRW

That is a real shame.  The Mount Hope shows were big enough that it was worthwhile for some of my fellow Pgh. Hi-Railers and I to skip the first day of the November Monroeville Greenberg shows (the Fall shows were almost always scheduled for the same weekend).  Hopefully a new promoter will step up and take over.  We started going to these when they were at their previous venue, and they always had long lines waiting to get in, even when the weather was bad -- I remember a few near-zero temperature days, a few rainy days, and even a small blizzard.

Andy

@Andy Hummell posted:

That is a real shame.  The Mount Hope shows were big enough that it was worthwhile for some of my fellow Pgh. Hi-Railers and I to skip the first day of the November Monroeville Greenberg shows (the Fall shows were almost always scheduled for the same weekend).  Hopefully a new promoter will step up and take over.  We started going to these when they were at their previous venue, and they always had long lines waiting to get in, even when the weather was bad -- I remember a few near-zero temperature days, a few rainy days, and even a small blizzard.

Andy

I drove over from Butler to a show at the Canfield Fairgrounds right as Covid restrictions were letting up.  There wasn’t so much I was interested in, but it was good to get out.  It was snowy and the parking lot was a sheet of ice.  I had to walk very gingerly.  😄 I have wanted to go to New Hope and Massillon since then, but two back surgeries nixed that idea.  Hopefully I’ll get to Massillon someday.

I am hoping to go to the Fort Pitt TCA meet in Cheswick September 30th as a trial run.  If I do well, I should be at the Greenberg show in November after a couple year hiatus!  😊 👍🏻

@Andy Hummell posted:

That is a real shame.  The Mount Hope shows were big enough that it was worthwhile for some of my fellow Pgh. Hi-Railers and I to skip the first day of the November Monroeville Greenberg shows (the Fall shows were almost always scheduled for the same weekend).  Hopefully a new promoter will step up and take over.  We started going to these when they were at their previous venue, and they always had long lines waiting to get in, even when the weather was bad -- I remember a few near-zero temperature days, a few rainy days, and even a small blizzard.

Andy

I have been selling at Mt Hope the last few years.  It was always a decent show.  I've seen Andy and Dave stroll by a few times.  I'll miss this show.

@Mark Boyce posted:

I drove over from Butler to a show at the Canfield Fairgrounds right as Covid restrictions were letting up.  There wasn’t so much I was interested in, but it was good to get out.  It was snowy and the parking lot was a sheet of ice.  I had to walk very gingerly.

A bunch of us were at that show.  All but one of us made it across the ice without going down (fortunately it was our youngest member, and he bounced right back up with nothing injured but his pride).

Andy

As a further follow-up to the Big E show, like York, it's spread out over several buildings (4) in close walking proximity to one another and they typically offer several clinics for those interested. Run by the Amherst Railway Society, it bills itself as the largest train show in North America, which is probably true.

Although O scale may not be the dominant scale, I enjoy the fact that a number of larger vendors like Grzyboski's, Charles Ro, etc. are typically on-hand with a large assortment of product.

You can also buy your entry "bracelets" in advance, which lets you avoid the long ticket lines. Only down side is the late January date which brings with it the possibility of snow.

@Richie C. posted:

As a further follow-up to the Big E show, like York, it's spread out over several buildings (4) in close walking proximity to one another and they typically offer several clinics for those interested. Run by the Amherst Railway Society, it bills itself as the largest train show in North America, which is probably true.

Although O scale may not be the dominant scale, I enjoy the fact that a number of larger vendors like Grzyboski's, Charles Ro, etc. are typically on-hand with a large assortment of product.

You can also buy your entry "bracelets" in advance, which lets you avoid the long ticket lines. Only down side is the late January date which brings with it the possibility of snow.

Richie:

The Amherst Train Show was nearly snowed out for the first time in the history of the Show the year before last. Saturday was essentially a lost day because of a huge snowstorm. Also, many if not most of the vendors cancelled out of the entire Show. My buddies and I were scheduled to go Saturday, but had to change to Sunday. Frankly, the Show was a shell of what it typically is because of the snowstorm.

Pat

@Andy Hummell posted:

A bunch of us were at that show.  All but one of us made it across the ice without going down (fortunately it was our youngest member, and he bounced right back up with nothing injured but his pride).

Andy

I’m sorry I missed seeing you!  We probably passed each other slipping in/out the parking lot.  😄  

Hmm, I hesitated to comment because I don't see the need to make any comparison. Each show actually brings different elements to what we want or for that matter, maybe don't want. It is much like trying to compare Derek Jeter to Ty Cobb. Sure you could try, but then you are touching two different eras of baseball together which just don't compare no matter how you slice it.

Don't get me wrong, it was great of Andy to give the breakdown which shows what each show has to offer in terms of numbers. Bottom line just comes down to the people at the shows, who you see and what you really want.

I've been to York and Allentown only, and I wouldn't try comparing them to each other or any other show that I've been to. Sometimes even if you are hyped for a show before you go, when you get there maybe just maybe it doesn't exactly meet your expectations. Granted, like some on the forum have said, it is a better thing to interact with the folks that you have met on the forum at these shows, and that at the end of the day is really what seems to matter. Sure a new engine is great, but the friendship made in person is a whole lot better, eh?

@irish rifle posted:

Richie:

The Amherst Train Show was nearly snowed out for the first time in the history of the Show the year before last. Saturday was essentially a lost day because of a huge snowstorm. Also, many if not most of the vendors cancelled out of the entire Show. My buddies and I were scheduled to go Saturday, but had to change to Sunday. Frankly, the Show was a shell of what it typically is because of the snowstorm.

Pat

You're right - I think I skipped that show because of Covid and started back again this last year. I remember one year there was so much snow and rain beforehand, the field was like a mud bog and everybody was trying to find a dry patch of land to step on.

Thanks for the great comparison data.  
I’ve heard too many times the tales of other train shows being larger than York.
nice to have the real numbers.

I'd be more tempted to check out the Big E if it weren't held in the middle of winter!  The prospect of getting stuck in a snowstorm or winter traffic jams for that long a ride doesn't do it for me.   I've driven up to Boston from the Phila area enough times in the bad weather that it's lost it's charm.

I missed my chance to attend the Big E when Marty Fitzhenry was alive, he kept asking me to come up and stay over to go to the show, but I never did.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'd be more tempted to check out the Big E if it weren't held in the middle of winter!  The prospect of getting stuck in a snowstorm or winter traffic jams for that long a ride doesn't do it for me.   I've driven up to Boston from the Phila area enough times in the bad weather that it's lost it's charm.

I missed my chance to attend the Big E when Marty Fitzhenry was alive, he kept asking me to come up and stay over to go to the show, but I never did.

I’ll take up the mantle,  you got place to stay if ever desire to come out John.