York, Complain, Complain, Complain!

LOL, great pic scale rail. Made me chuckle.........Paul

It was great for shopping. You could actually stop, look, and deal, without getting pushed along. 

 Funny thing is:

The manufacturers that weren't there announced that they wouldn't be there.

Spring York is the "end of train season " and typically less eventful.

****ed if you do. ****ed if you don't I suppose.

And fewer "crop dusters"!  LOL! What is there not to like?

Trust me, Don, there were still plenty of people there. It's true that attendance throughout the 90s and into the early years of the current century was much higher, but a number of factors account for what it was then and what it is now. York still is the biggest and best toy train meet on the planet, frequented by some of the most devoted and supportive hobbyists.

From what I saw from the Purple hall, Thursday the crowds came and went at different times of the day. Friday crowd kept me busy most of the day and Saturday, well Saturday the number of people seemed to be sparse everywhere from what the people I talked to and my helpers were saying. The few people that came into the Purple hall seemed to be passing though for the most part. Friday was my best day ever for sales and Saturday was by far my worst. 

Don,

I thought complaining was just a symptom of "OlFarts Disease". It is quite evident at my Senior Golf League and not just confined to the train hobby.

Scale Rail,

This year York was an easy flight to BWI + 1 hour drive. 4,500 miles round trip from the Golden State.

Make the pilgrimage at least once if you can.

The complainers follow a consistent pattern.  There's one forum member who is a former member of TCA and loves to bash the way that York is run - I was actually a bit disappointed that he showed up later than usual in the York threads this year, but just like the sun rises in the east, there he was.  There are others who only talk about the ease of buying stuff online - IMO making it all about the "stuff" is shallow, shortsighted, and sad.

Yep.....refer back to the 'shrinking' thread.......   the York equivalent in the model car world is going to be no longer held after the OCT 2019 meet.  There are still two big York events yearly........count your blessings and don't take things for granted. 

 The first time I went to York in 1979 I was a 20 some-year-old kid sitting in the backseat of a station wagon 

 A bunch of the local “old guys” decided to take me along and  basically told me to just sit there and shut up and maybe you’ll learn something 

 The only thing they did for two hours both coming and going was complain about everything -  mostly the prices and the people 

 Nothings changed  😊🚂 

Ah yes, York.  It was up and it was down and it was bad and it was good and it was well attended and it was poorly attended and it was better than its ever been and it was the worst its ever been and it was this and it was that and, in spite of all of this and more, I had my usual great time...so what's keeping October. 

I stood at my tables the entire 3 days. I thought Thursday and Friday foot traffic was the same as always. My sales were down slightly, but I blamed that on Monday being tax day. That said, The show is basically over at 2 on Friday, when the OGR Forum meeting happens. Most attendees leave for home then. You can see a noticeable drop in traffic at that time. Its always been like that, since the three day format began.  As a seller, my head-scratcher happened Saturday when a gentleman was enamored over a prewar 027 locomotive (with 3 passenger cars) I was offering. He says, "I want the engine. How much?" "The set is $115", I say. He says, "I don't want the cars. I saw that same engine alone for $200 in the blue hall, but this one is in better shape." I said, "Well then this is a deal for you!" He replies, "I only want the engine. I'll go get the other one." "You understand I'm selling you a better engine for $115 in essence giving you the three passenger cars for free?" 
"But I DON'T want the cars!" and he leaves empty handed.....  

We don't know the true numbers but I like April York. For business reasons and with fall in full bloom October can be a no go for some. The meet was a little early this year maybe because of a late Easter but us Michigan guys look forward to a nicer breath of spring that only teases us here. April York? only time and the Eastern Div. will tell.

I'm pretty disappointed with the low level of whining this year. Of course letting the hoards of public in has reduced it some.

Especially miss the "I'm not a member of TCA cause i dont believe in dues, and never been to York, but I know its a bad show".

As with most things in life, different things will appeal to different people, so one should do what makes one appreciate life and things before the smiling mortician steps in.......(loosely quoting Lawrence Ferlinghetti, who just recently turned 100!)

aussteve posted:

...Especially miss the "I'm not a member of TCA cause i dont believe in dues, and never been to York, but I know its a bad show".

Go check the "shrinking York" thread for that post.

Jim Battaglia posted:

I stood at my tables the entire 3 days. I thought Thursday and Friday foot traffic was the same as always. My sales were down slightly, but I blamed that on Monday being tax day. That said, The show is basically over at 2 on Friday, when the OGR Forum meeting happens. Most attendees leave for home then. You can see a noticeable drop in traffic at that time. Its always been like that, since the three day format began.  As a seller, my head-scratcher happened Saturday when a gentleman was enamored over a prewar 027 locomotive (with 3 passenger cars) I was offering. He says, "I want the engine. How much?" "The set is $115", I say. He says, "I don't want the cars. I saw that same engine alone for $200 in the blue hall, but this one is in better shape." I said, "Well then this is a deal for you!" He replies, "I only want the engine. I'll go get the other one." "You understand I'm selling you a better engine for $115 in essence giving you the three passenger cars for free?" 
"But I DON'T want the cars!" and he leaves empty handed.....  

I've been this route before at motorcycle swap meets I used to attend a long time ago.  You need to learn to have fun with people like this.

I'da said, "Well, I could let you have the engine by itself for $150".  He'da said "$150?  But you only want $115 for the engine and 3 cars!  I only want the engine.  That doesn't make sense!"

I'da replied "It makes PERFECT sense.  Buy the engine AND the 3 cars, and save yourself some money!"  He probably still would have walked off empty handed, of course.  But you would really have had some fun watching him walk off!

Mixed Freight posted:

I've been this route before at motorcycle swap meets I used to attend a long time ago.  You need to learn to have fun with people like this.

I'da said, "Well, I could let you have the engine by itself for $150".  He'da said "$150?  But you only want $115 for the engine and 3 cars!  I only want the engine.  That doesn't make sense!"

I'da replied "It makes PERFECT sense.  Buy the engine AND the 3 cars, and save yourself some money!"  He probably still would have walked off empty handed, of course.  But you would really have had some fun watching him walk off!

Maybe he was this guy, and he had no where to put the cars for the ride home ?

Or maybe he had limitations from his SWMBO to bring home no more than one train engine, and nothing else (but the purchase was within $$ he could spend). 

While it seems silly from an economic sense to all of us, I can see odd situations that might drive such a behavior.  If you aren't thinking of throwing the part you don't want in the dumpster on your way out, you have to find something to do with them.

-Dave

Jim Battaglia posted:

I stood at my tables the entire 3 days. I thought Thursday and Friday foot traffic was the same as always. My sales were down slightly, but I blamed that on Monday being tax day. That said, The show is basically over at 2 on Friday, when the OGR Forum meeting happens. Most attendees leave for home then. You can see a noticeable drop in traffic at that time. Its always been like that, since the three day format began.  As a seller, my head-scratcher happened Saturday when a gentleman was enamored over a prewar 027 locomotive (with 3 passenger cars) I was offering. He says, "I want the engine. How much?" "The set is $115", I say. He says, "I don't want the cars. I saw that same engine alone for $200 in the blue hall, but this one is in better shape." I said, "Well then this is a deal for you!" He replies, "I only want the engine. I'll go get the other one." "You understand I'm selling you a better engine for $115 in essence giving you the three passenger cars for free?" 
"But I DON'T want the cars!" and he leaves empty handed.....  

That boy's about as sharp as a bag of wet mice!

York, once again, treated me well. Had many enjoyable discussions with old friends and colleagues and I made some new friends. I succeeded in bringing home some American Flyer Manufacturing Co. Wide Gauge freight cars that I was looking for in C8 condition at what I feel was a fair price to both buyer and seller. One does not find that kind of stuff to inspect in hand in 'most places'. I was tempted into an Lionel-AF purchase by Charlie Ro blowout pricing. Etc., etc., ... The weather was decent. The return drive home was long, as usual, but safe and uneventful. From my perspective as a collector and operator of toy trains, what's not to like.

Me had fun.

Bob

Hey at least you guys could make it, there's some people that just have to ***** about something or they don't feel good.

Wish I could have been there, maybe one of these days.

J. Motts

mwb posted:

Jim Battaglia posted:

I stood at my tables the entire 3 days. I thought Thursday and Friday foot traffic was the same as always. My sales were down slightly, but I blamed that on Monday being tax day. That said, The show is basically over at 2 on Friday, when the OGR Forum meeting happens. Most attendees leave for home then. You can see a noticeable drop in traffic at that time. Its always been like that, since the three day format began.  As a seller, my head-scratcher happened Saturday when a gentleman was enamored over a prewar 027 locomotive (with 3 passenger cars) I was offering. He says, "I want the engine. How much?" "The set is $115", I say. He says, "I don't want the cars. I saw that same engine alone for $200 in the blue hall, but this one is in better shape." I said, "Well then this is a deal for you!" He replies, "I only want the engine. I'll go get the other one." "You understand I'm selling you a better engine for $115 in essence giving you the three passenger cars for free?" 
"But I DON'T want the cars!" and he leaves empty handed.....  

That boy's about as sharp as a bag of wet mice!

Yeah - I know that guy, I think...not really, but that sort of "logic" shows up at train shows regularly. I imagine that any hobby has these members.

The there was the vendor at a local train show who had an item that I was vaguely interested in. A $30 something...so I asked him, in a friendly way, what was the best he could do? He took the item from my hand, put it back on the shelf and then said "Well, let's see what else I have you want before we talk..."

Do I need to tell you how much of any of his stuff that I bought? I went so far as to spread the word about his behavior among other customers (that I knew), and with good effect, I might add. 

I wonder if the airlines charging so much for extra baggage has something to do with lower sales and not as many people attending. Airlines, motel, food, rental car, it all adds up. 

SteveT, it's over 4000 miles round trip for me just to get to California. That would make it 8500 miles round trip plus a drive. But, maybe someday I can still make it to York. Don

Jim Battaglia posted:

I stood at my tables the entire 3 days. I thought Thursday and Friday foot traffic was the same as always. My sales were down slightly, but I blamed that on Monday being tax day. That said, The show is basically over at 2 on Friday, when the OGR Forum meeting happens. Most attendees leave for home then. You can see a noticeable drop in traffic at that time. Its always been like that, since the three day format began.  As a seller, my head-scratcher happened Saturday when a gentleman was enamored over a prewar 027 locomotive (with 3 passenger cars) I was offering. He says, "I want the engine. How much?" "The set is $115", I say. He says, "I don't want the cars. I saw that same engine alone for $200 in the blue hall, but this one is in better shape." I said, "Well then this is a deal for you!" He replies, "I only want the engine. I'll go get the other one." "You understand I'm selling you a better engine for $115 in essence giving you the three passenger cars for free?" 
"But I DON'T want the cars!" and he leaves empty handed.....  

I had a weird sale too in ebay. About 2004 I had a set of postwar lionel Madison cars exc cond listed with nice crisp boxes and the high bidder drove 200 miles here to Tampa from Jacksonville to pick them up and gave me the cash removed the cars from the boxes and said I can keep the cars because he was putting as set cars that are in better condition in them, I relisted the 3 cars without boxes and got more than he bidded on them with boxes.

I missed going this spring for the first time since 2015.  The funding situation just was not in my favor this spring.  What I missed most was getting some good crab cakes and cream of crab soup!  I also missed seeing the many friends that I have met over the years.  

I view finding a good train as a bonus for my York trips, as I never know what I will find.  

NWL

Some people aren’t happy unless they are b***hing about something.  And those people are happy all the time.

Jim Battaglia posted:

I stood at my tables the entire 3 days. I thought Thursday and Friday foot traffic was the same as always. My sales were down slightly, but I blamed that on Monday being tax day. That said, The show is basically over at 2 on Friday, when the OGR Forum meeting happens. Most attendees leave for home then. You can see a noticeable drop in traffic at that time. Its always been like that, since the three day format began.  As a seller, my head-scratcher happened Saturday when a gentleman was enamored over a prewar 027 locomotive (with 3 passenger cars) I was offering. He says, "I want the engine. How much?" "The set is $115", I say. He says, "I don't want the cars. I saw that same engine alone for $200 in the blue hall, but this one is in better shape." I said, "Well then this is a deal for you!" He replies, "I only want the engine. I'll go get the other one." "You understand I'm selling you a better engine for $115 in essence giving you the three passenger cars for free?" 
"But I DON'T want the cars!" and he leaves empty handed.....  

That's when you should of said $115 and he complains, you say your buying the engine, the cars are free with the engine if you want them if not I'll keep them.

Jim Battaglia posted:

As a seller, my head-scratcher happened Saturday when a gentleman was enamored over a prewar 027 locomotive (with 3 passenger cars) I was offering. He says, "I want the engine. How much?" "The set is $115", I say. He says, "I don't want the cars. I saw that same engine alone for $200 in the blue hall, but this one is in better shape." I said, "Well then this is a deal for you!" He replies, "I only want the engine. I'll go get the other one." "You understand I'm selling you a better engine for $115 in essence giving you the three passenger cars for free?" 
"But I DON'T want the cars!" and he leaves empty handed.....  

I could see myself being that guy! Selling trains is something I do not want to be bothered with. I try hard not to buy duplicates, or poorer-condition items I might later want to upgrade. If the price of the deal is having extra stuff I have to get rid of, I might very well pass on it and wait for another, even at a slightly higher price.

And to be fair, you didn't want the cars, either. Or you'd have sold him just the engine

scale rail posted:

I wonder if the airlines charging so much for extra baggage has something to do with lower sales and not as many people attending. Airlines, motel, food, rental car, it all adds up. 

SteveT, it's over 4000 miles round trip for me just to get to California. That would make it 8500 miles round trip plus a drive. But, maybe someday I can still make it to York. Don

Don, I know it’s a long way but you should try to make the trip some day.  I think you would enjoy it.  My opinion October is better.  We made the trip to Maui from Florida a few years ago, I know it’s long.

nickaix posted:

Jim Battaglia posted:

As a seller, my head-scratcher happened Saturday when a gentleman was enamored over a prewar 027 locomotive (with 3 passenger cars) I was offering. He says, "I want the engine. How much?" "The set is $115", I say. He says, "I don't want the cars. I saw that same engine alone for $200 in the blue hall, but this one is in better shape." I said, "Well then this is a deal for you!" He replies, "I only want the engine. I'll go get the other one." "You understand I'm selling you a better engine for $115 in essence giving you the three passenger cars for free?" 
"But I DON'T want the cars!" and he leaves empty handed.....  

I could see myself being that guy! Selling trains is something I do not want to be bothered with. I try hard not to buy duplicates, or poorer-condition items I might later want to upgrade. If the price of the deal is having extra stuff I have to get rid of, I might very well pass on it and wait for another, even at a slightly higher price.

And to be fair, you didn't want the cars, either. Or you'd have sold him just the engine

If it were me, I'da simply forked over $115 for the entire set (complete with the nicer engine than the $200 one).  Then as I strolled down the aisle ways, simply handed the "free" cars I didn't want to some nice little deserving kid.

But that's just me.  For some, giving away stuff for free is probably a little too much to bear.  

Jim Battaglia posted:

He says, "I want the engine. How much?" "The set is $115", I say. He says, "I don't want the cars. I saw that same engine alone for $200 in the blue hall, but this one is in better shape." I said, "Well then this is a deal for you!" He replies, "I only want the engine. I'll go get the other one." "You understand I'm selling you a better engine for $115 in essence giving you the three passenger cars for free?" 
"But I DON'T want the cars!" and he leaves empty handed.....  

Jerry

I would love to go to York someday but it looks like it might die and then yet again it looks like it is starting to pick back up. A lot of people prefer going in the fall with the groups I belong have that type of mentality

Mixed Freight posted:

Jim Battaglia posted:

I stood at my tables the entire 3 days. I thought Thursday and Friday foot traffic was the same as always. My sales were down slightly, but I blamed that on Monday being tax day. That said, The show is basically over at 2 on Friday, when the OGR Forum meeting happens. Most attendees leave for home then. You can see a noticeable drop in traffic at that time. Its always been like that, since the three day format began.  As a seller, my head-scratcher happened Saturday when a gentleman was enamored over a prewar 027 locomotive (with 3 passenger cars) I was offering. He says, "I want the engine. How much?" "The set is $115", I say. He says, "I don't want the cars. I saw that same engine alone for $200 in the blue hall, but this one is in better shape." I said, "Well then this is a deal for you!" He replies, "I only want the engine. I'll go get the other one." "You understand I'm selling you a better engine for $115 in essence giving you the three passenger cars for free?" 
"But I DON'T want the cars!" and he leaves empty handed.....  

I've been this route before at motorcycle swap meets I used to attend a long time ago.  You need to learn to have fun with people like this.

I'da said, "Well, I could let you have the engine by itself for $150".  He'da said "$150?  But you only want $115 for the engine and 3 cars!  I only want the engine.  That doesn't make sense!"

I'da replied "It makes PERFECT sense.  Buy the engine AND the 3 cars, and save yourself some money!"  He probably still would have walked off empty handed, of course.  But you would really have had some fun watching him walk off!

He didn't say if this fellow was a TCA member! 

My favorite comment is "Prices at York were_______than last year" (fill in:lower,same,higher). Unless you compared the price of everything, one year to the next, where does your opinion come from? (I know the answer, but this is a "family" forum). I think most of the "prices higher" comments are really, "I could not get that $800. engine for $250.".

Mixed Freight posted:

If it were me, I'da simply forked over $115 for the entire set (complete with the nicer engine than the $200 one).  Then as I strolled down the aisle ways, simply handed the "free" cars I didn't want to some nice little deserving kid.

Sure! And then he begs his father for a matching engine, and the only one he can find is in the blue hall and costs $200...

In seriousness, I've given trains away free, too, and it's not always so easy to find a recipient. I'd sooner avoid all that, and do my charitable deeds in other ways.

Don

I hope you can make it to York some day.  Maybe do October and combine the trip with a Fall Foliage Vacation in the Northeast or Mid-Atlantic.

Since I live in York, going is a no-brainer.  Honestly, I've never had a "bad" show.  This year I found a dealer with a large collection of the scale Milwaukee Lionel RR club cars all NIB.  I bought both covered hoppers.  After doing the whole show Thurs and Friday, I came home and told my wife that I was going to skip Saturday.  I woke up Saturday in train withdrawal, and returned to the show. Ended up getting another club car from the same dealer, the Milwaukee round roof boxcar.  Walked around for a couple of hours and got a few more odd and ends.  

Yeah.  It was good . . .

Bob Glorioso

If you come to York, let me know.  I hope to have my Milwaukee layout presentable in the next year!

It was the best of York, it was the worst of York, the epoch of our despair.  

It might be useful to define some terms:

Best York: You found something you always wanted, cheap.

Worse York: You did NOT find the above.