Z2500 switch machines

We purchased 50 of them when they first came out   We had a number of issues with them.  I am told that some of them have been fixed with the latest release but we went back to the DZ-1000's which are a much better machine in my opinion  The issues we had were

- If two switches were connected as a crossover with one button controlling them every once in awhile they would switch by themselves  After a few head on collisions we found it was the 2500 throwing by itself

- We purchased the data wire driver so we can use TMCC to throw the switches  If one switch out of 50 had a problem or hung up all 50 would stop working  There wasnt any way of telling which one was hanging up the data wire without disconnecting it

- There isnt any way to throw the switch manually

- The springs that come with the switch that connect to the throw bar of the switch are flimsy  They get mangled very easy

Bobby

Like Ben said , go with the Z1000s excellent switch machines

Alex 

Just my two cents.

I like them, the DZ2500's....my old layout used the DZ1000's. Dozens of them. I no longer have the switches but still have all the DZ1000 motors. I agree, the DZ1000 is a very robust switch machine. However, they do have issues that were "fixed" with the DZ2500.

The 2500 is a smaller machine than the 1000. That may be a problem with the DZ1000 for some operators as there may be clearance issues with engines and some cars. The 2500 has output wires that I use to control my trackside signals. No relays are necessary. With my 1000's, I had to add a DZ1008 relay device to use this function. My earlier 1000's, the relay had to be attached to the back of the 1000 which in turn made it even longer in length.

I like the slow motion of the 2500 compared to the "snap" of the 1000.

I agree, a turnout with a 2500 installed cannot be operated manually. But it is a simple matter to press the button on top to operate the switch. I like the LED's that show turnout location. The 2500's  can be controlled thru your handheld device with the blue "data" wire or like I do with a single wire (the white one) connected to a button on my control panel.

I currently have 30 ROSS switches installed with DZ2500 switch machines. Some were installed a year ago and some only yesterday, So far, not a problem with any of them. I do have a few that are "ganged" at crossovers and have not experienced any turnout working on its own.

You asked for opinions, this is mine.

Donald

I sent my DZ2500s back to Dennis at ZStuff and he sent me upgraded DZ2500s.  I had bought the original DZ2500s when they came out.  As mentioned above I had a problem with one malfunctioning DZ2500 that shut all the switches down.  I moved over the summer and have just finished installing the upgraded DZ2500s and so far I have not encountered any problems.  I am using the Electric RR Co. DZ2500 Breakout PCB for each switch which I believe will isolate a malfunctioning switch and not shut down the other switches.  I still need to connect them to my data wire driver and program them.  

Neal Jeter

I don't understand how one malfunctioning Z2500 shuts down all the others?  What kind of wiring job is that?

Dennis

Dennis posted:

I don't understand how one malfunctioning Z2500 shuts down all the others?  What kind of wiring job is that?

Dennis

If you are using the Data Driver Buss, sometimes when one fails it prevents every other one from working. Learned the hard way about soldering them in!! There have been some revisions to them along the way, the newer ones are supposed to have much better reliability.

Dennis posted:

I don't understand how one malfunctioning Z2500 shuts down all the others?  What kind of wiring job is that?

Dennis

Dennis:

These switch motors are TMCC controlled.  There is a data buss that loops from one switch motor to the next. If for some reason the data system doesn't function properly,  apparently nothing would work. 

I see, thanks.  I control mine with buttons from my control board area.

Dennis

On my last layout I had the older DZ-2500A machines and they were giving me problems when used in a crossover using my Cab1.  I replaced the DZ-2500A machines on the cross overs with new DZ-2500C machines and that problem went away.  I will keep the DZ-2500A machines for single switch ops, but I hope Z-Stuff still replaces the older machines since I have more crossovers that DZ-2500C machines.

I've not had the problem of one failure causing all switches to fail, but I am wiring my new layout with toggle switches to isolate small groups to make it easier to find the problem switch.  I asked awhile back if the DZ-2500C solved this problem but no one knew (no definitive answer from Z-Stuff).  Would be nice to get a definite answer on this.  I have several of Electric RR Co. DZ2500 Breakout PCB boards that I'm experimenting with, but ERR's sales stated this board just make it easier to wire the DZ-2500s. Unfortunately, based on comments from ERR sales when I called, I don't think ERR is going to make more even though the recent Lionel catalog says a board is available through ERR.

I was moving away from LCS due to the fact it could not tell me a DZ-2500's switch position.  The new Lionel LCS CSM2 module looks like that solves the problem, so I have a few on pre-order.

My experience was they were a little finicky to setup, but once setup they worked well. 

In the picture below, the older DZ-2500A is on the right and the newer DZ-2500C is on the left.  Notice the white strip around the outside of the DZ-2500C.

Ron:

Send Ken an email at Electric RR Co.  He just built 25 DZ2500 Breakout PCBs for me.  

Neal Jeter

The DZ-2500C, DZ Breakout Board, and CSM2 are solid.  CSM2 eliminated need for separate data wire driver that I used to have.  Complex wiring but it works great!

Bobby Cox posted:

I have been told the Z2500 switch machines used with Ross switches are not reliable. Please share your experience with me. Thanks!

Last weekend I just transplanted 4 from Atlas switches to a Ross Double Crossover.  I joined the 4 white wires to the button controller.  It activates all 4 (opened or closed).  No anti derailleur needed with that configuration.  They work excellently and  all 4 hit home (open/close) within 1 second.   I would not hesitate to use the DZ-2500 switch machines.  For anti-derailleur, no relays needed.  Just use the yellow and green wire on isolated rails if you want.

Is there a way to tell the difference between a 2500A and 2500C from the outside of the switch machine?? Or do you have to open them up as shown in Ron’s 2 pictures? The 2500C has the white paint stripe around the perimeter of the circuit board as he described.

Carl j 

Carl J posted:

Or do you have to open them up as shown in Ron’s 2 pictures?

Carl j 

Those DZ-2500s in my picture are not opened up.  That is a picture of the bottom of the switch machines.

Thanks Ron!! I see from your pictures that it is totally open underneath!!

Carl J

I had my son design a circuit to replace the controllers with a momentary contact and two LEDs.

I have a circuit video that shows how it would work but I dont have the components.

Sadly, (for Me) with his new job he is too busy to complete the design. So it is unlikely I will be posting the design anytime soon.

LionelAG posted:

The DZ-2500C, DZ Breakout Board, and CSM2 are solid.  CSM2 eliminated need for separate data wire driver that I used to have.  Complex wiring but it works great!

A little extra info for nerds like me:

Factoid 1:  The serial data feed from the CSM2 and the DZ-2001 are completely interchangeable.  Can be handy in some cases.  Prior to the CSM2, I had already configured wiring using the DZ-2001 and continue to use it as needed.

Factoid 2:  The DZ-2001 has evolved as well.  The instruction sheet shipped and available online refers to a DZ-2001A but the most recent hardware generation is a DZ-2001D.  Best to use the latest version as the DZ-2001A gave me problems.  Dennis Zander will exchange a 2001A for a 2001D.