Z4000 Serial Numbers - Common Issue? (Closed Topic - See my last reply)

Jim S,

   I have 3 Z4k's, no issues what so ever.

PCRR/Dave

Some of the 1198 numbered transformers were wired out of phase from the factory. Preferably you need to check them with a Z4K that starts with a different series.

Steve

I don't own any Z4000's, but the melted banana jack looks like a similar problem that has been occasionally reported with some TIU's, from having a loose connection where the banana jack is fastened to the TIU's housing and the nuts have worked loose.

any transformer no matter who makes it can fail from a melted terminal if the holding nuts on the terminals inside the transformer becomes loose. don't blame the transformer it is not that difficult to check the inside terminals for tightness, if you don't feel comfortable I'm sure you have a friend in your hobby that would be glad to check your transformers for you weather it is a Lionel or MTH model!!!

Alan

P,S. THE P[ROBLEM IS WHEN THERE IS A Loose connections that creates heat and the heat makes the joint draw extra amps that it was not designed for, if you have loose circuit breaker wires in you home you could have your house burn down, always want to make sure your wiring is tight connection no matter what you are working on ok.!

good luck   

Repair Tech,

   Alan you are absolutely correct and for this reason I recommend using good male Banana Plugs on the Z4K and the MTH TIU's, set up in this manner I have never had any loose connections, that lead to this kind problem.

PCRR/Dave

I have seen that.  It happens with the nut inside that holds the connectors in place being loose.  It is not something that happens with one release.   It is not an issue related to any number.

Alan is correct.  I have one on the layout that was given to me with that issue.  I run several Z4K transformers and have opened all of them to check for this issue.   Easy to fix.

Is the common issue here that those Track 2 terminals are connected to the same club loop?  IS there and issue with the track loop?  Was anyone monitoring Amperage from the Z-4000.   G

@GGG, Thanks for your request for clarification.  This Z-4000  melted down at a one of our shows,  though there was nothing unusual about our layout at this show.  It was a common configuration that we had been using for other shows earlier in the season.   See attached picture......the melt down was on the right handle.  Our curiosity is that another transformer that we had been using earlier in the year also failed on the right handle side, though not a melt down issue. We sent that one in for repair, received it back, and it was still not operating when we received it.

For this example, with the melt down, we were trying to operate a TMCC crane car with 18 volts.   Transformer showed 18 volts and  6 amps and track read 3 volts.   The crane car had been removed, since it was not working at 3 volts.  We believe there was NOTHING on the rails to draw current at the time of the melt down.  Someone smelled the "burnt" smell and shut everything down and we found the condition pictured.

It appears to me that  the meltdown was on the outside from a loose connection most likely from a spade connector or wire being loose. Loose connections like these will not trip breakers or fuses.

Well, the good news is that it doesn't look like the case is distorted too much.  So as long as internal wires are ok, the Terminal can be replaced.  G

Hindsight, being 20/20. 18 volts and 6 amps is a lot of power to run a crane. Checking actual voltage probably done after meltdown. 

I had a similiar problem. Where those output wires plug into the power board the socket failed. Most likely a poor connection. My 20/20 Hindsight is do not waste a Z-4000 throttle running lights at 16 volts and 8.5 amps. Normal parameters but time of use pushed it over the edge.

Is it a good practice to put a product like Loctite on these connections to make sure. TIUs also. 

I read a similar post about the MTH terminal block. Loose connections internally. The advise on that post was to open up your TIUs and terminal blocks and tighten the fasteners. It made sense to me. The post didn't mention the Z4000, but it's probably the same.

Jim, this is a good post to give guys a heads up.

Marty

Marty, having opened all 4 of my tius to check tetminals, I accept your recommendation to do likewise on the Z4k.  Any complications in that process?

I'm in San Diego area for a few days and will put that on myto-do list for when I get home.

I would not state this is a common issue and have no documentation on how many are a problem.  I am not saying that everyone should open up items to check.    I did all of the items I have because I did not want the issue repeated.

Bob, call me before you open a Z4K.

I would say you can do a hand check for heat, or use one of those cheap thermal devices before you open a Z-4000 up.  All the new stuff I see has lock washers and thread lock on them.  If running heavy loads at high amps, feel the terminals for excess heat.  If none, leave alone.  G

GGG,

   I agree, owning 3 of them, if this was a common occurrence I would probably have one that malfunctioned, I do not.

PCRR/Dave

Was this Z4000 of Korean,Chinese or Thai (Thailand) manufacture? I and several friends all have 20-30 between us.Interestingly, it appears the earlier Korean Z's have had the most problems,I've fixed several with loose handles and pots.. The Chinese Z's seemed to be made with lighter/thinner materials,the housing/handles . The most recent Z's made in Thailand have had no issues and seem to be the most "robust"and the workmanship/ internal components appear to be superior. 

@Boomer - would you know the range of serial numbers for the different manufacturing locations? 

That is the target for our curiosity, really.  Since our club ad members have so many Z4000's and with so few problems reported, we are wondering if there is a serial number range / batch that are more prone to problems.

BOOMER,

    Are the MTH Z4K's identified in any manner on the Transformers, allowing owners to know were the Z4K was actually made?

PCRR/Dave

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

BOOMER,

    Are the MTH Z4K's identified in any manner on the Transformers, allowing owners to know were the Z4K was actually made?

PCRR/Dave

Yes they are. The first 2 digits are the month produced, i.e. 01= January, 02= February, 12= December. The next 2 digits, (positions 3 & 4) are the last 2 digits of the year, 16 = 2016, 98 = 1998. Examples:

0398XXXXX = March 1998 one of the first runs

1198XXXXX = November 1998

1001XXXXX = October 2001

Steve

Hello L & N...........

I think what BOOMER mentioned of "WHERE" the Z4000's are made from as on mine ,it says Thailand as its is clearly marked on the flat white outer shipping carton in bold letters " MADE IN THAILAND"  so I would think the others would be as marked in Korean, China........ On mine Z4000, the S/N is 101145599 (Oct 2011) which I bought new in Dec 2012.  I have used mine a lot using Williams F-3's ABA units, all powered 6 motors total and this unit didn't even warm up @ 13 volts / 7amps ( ABA and 13 cars).  My Z4000 is 5 years old and still works great to this day.  The posts are all tight go figure !!

Tiffany

Mine is 15 years old.  Never had any issues with it or the Z4k receiver.

RJR,

   My original is around 15 years old and I am not sure how old the other 2 I picked up used, really are, I will look on the shipping Carton of my original to see where it was made. The shipping containers of the other 2 are long gone. I was hoping that on the actual Z4K Transformer there was some kind of ident, showing this information.  Other than one of my used Z4K's having the voltage display 1.7V low to the digital read out, they all work perfectly.  All my Z4K side receivers have worked perfectly also.

L&N,

   Is there any way we can tell by MFG date, which country the Z4K Transformers were made in?

PCRR/Dave

I'm packing to board the Southwest Chief in LA to head back to VA, so have no idea what serial number or country of origin is.

Dave. If you go to York, stop by the upgrade table Wed night and let's meet.

RJR,

   Unfortunately I have not been to a York for over 30 years, maybe someday I will be able to make it, would really like to meet all the OGR forum members, especially the DCS & Legacy Groups.  When my Fly Fishing/Gun Dog business finally winds down completely, I plan on attending, can't attend before that time.

PCRR/Dave 

As a first time post attempt, let me say thanks for your feedback and contributions..  With the last couple of posts I believe we gone off track on a tangent and that would be a good time to close/suspend this discussion.

I will share an update after we complete our repairs.  That may take a while.  Until then "Stay on track." Cheers!