"Zinc Pest" on McCoy Trains

Many of the McCoy Circus Wagon Wheels suffer from "Zinc Pest" This is my first
attempt 3D printing the wheels. The wheels were printed in two halves and glued
together.

The McCoy underfloor motors can suffer from "Zinc Pest". The motor side frames
warp and cause the motors to fail. I decided to see if I could 3D print these

side frames. The frame was made beefier in places where there was room. I
presently have two of these motors with 3D plastic side frames running. One is
in a McCoy trolley, and one is in a Wapid Wabbit.

Great work!

What type of material did you use in your printer?

If you care to sell these parts I think you will have a huge market.  Most underframe motors are inoperable.

And the sideframes on my E-2 are all broken off as shown in your photo.

Now if you would just print the steamchests for the steam locomotives I could get my McCoy accumulation looking good again.

Don

@CArolina Shagger posted:

Great work!

What type of material did you use in your printer?

If you care to sell these parts I think you will have a huge market.  Most underframe motors are inoperable.

And the sideframes on my E-2 are all broken off as shown in your photo.

Now if you would just print the steamchests for the steam locomotives I could get my McCoy accumulation looking good again.

Don

Henning’s sells resin yokes for the steam cylinders

Steve

NICE JOB! :-)

I am new to 3D printing, I have only had my printer for a little more than a
month. I picked this printer because it was inexpensive (under $200) and had
good reviews. So far the only material I have used is PLA (Polylactic Acid)
which is what came with the printer. I have read that PLA is made from corn
starch or sugar cane. The melting point is low (about 170C) but it is fairly
hard.

A printed part is not easy to machine because of the low melting point. The
printed holes are under  size and need to be cleaned out with a drill that is
running at a very slow speed. I take the belt of off the drill press and turn
the pulley by hand. The part is difficult to file or sand. It reminds me of
trying to sand paint that is not fully dry. The plastic can be tapped quite
easily and it cab be sawed on a band saw. It can't be drilled through in a
solid area. The filled in area is printed in a criss cross pattern that
splinters like drilling cheap plywood.

I am using the plastic for a bearing surface for the axle on the motor side
frames. I am not using the bronze bushings. The insulated washers on the brush
holders are not needed as the plastic is an insulator. There are several other
changes from the original design.

I decided to try and make a worm gear to replace a gear that had stripped teeth.
It took me seven tries but I was able to make a gear that works. I started by
making a model the same diameter and sketching the correct number of teeth. I
then measured the difference between what I printed and what I wanted and went
back and changed the model. I went through this process several times. I then

added a boss to the gear so set screws could be used which allowed the gear to

easily be adjusted side to side.

Have a bunch of circus cars that need wheels.

Let us know if you will use a different material than PLA (Polylactic Acid).

Know someone who designed boat hulls with that materail and it worked great as he painted it before the water, but it was somewhat fragile.

Great work David

What you are doing is valuable. I'll bet 80% of the McCoy Cascades need those sideframes, and most of the underfloor drives are shot. Two each were used in the Daniels GG1, many are shelf sitters and could use these parts to get the motors running again.

A funny story: I bought a JAD Hiawatha set at York a few years ago, and did not realize that the trailing truck side frames were completely gone. Bought another one recently, primarily to see if I could reproduce those parts. To my amazement - they are CUT DOWN E-2 SIDEFRAMES, just bent at a 20 degree angle and trimmed off just before the second bearing on each side to create a trailing truck sideframe. Was able to do the surgery on the STL in the slicer, and print out a left and right hand part (I also thickened up the base part, so more material to join. Came out great, so my old engine has plastic replacement sideframes.

So what's next in the project jar?

Jim

The Steam Chest on the McCoy steam locomotives is another part that suffers from
"Zinc Pest". Attached is a picture of a steam chest that is starting to show signs of
"zinc pest". Also attached is a picture of a part that I machined from aluminum for
my own use. I spent 40 hours making this part. At the minimum wage of $15.00/hr that
comes out to $600.00 to repair a locomotive that I bought new for about $250.00.

If I need another part I will try a 3D printed part. I have made a 3D (STL) file for
this part (see third picture). I am going to print a test part to see if it looks
promising. If anyone else would like to try printing this part, send me an email and
I will send you the STL file. Just let me know how it turns out and what printer and
what material was used.

Some efforts from zinc-pest to 3D to aluminum I've done to get my Chief Cle Elum in better shape.

I purchased this from Trainz. Someone removed the drum things.Wonder why ? I took the side rails off to run it.

Where can I get the missing parts?

This thing is so fast Can someone tell me what year it was made and is it one prone to zink failure ?

David, I'm glad you were finally able to get those side pieces made. When I first started 3D printing I used PLA all the time but after after a while realized that material is great but for strength and longevity I moved to PETG by Solutech.

Time and temperature and possibly even sunlight can affect PLA.

I run 80 deg for bed and 220 for nozzle. Just a thought, have run my machine for over 1700 hours and many different parts.

You have done nice work for so little run time, I can see you are going to have a rewarding future in 3D printing.

Ray

@Sergpride posted:

I purchased this from Trainz. Someone removed the drum things.Wonder why ? I took the side rails off to run it.

Where can I get the missing parts?

This thing is so fast Can someone tell me what year it was made and is it one prone to zink failure ?

The steam cylinders were also cast and prone to zinc pest. Ira Keeler made replacements but he is no longer doing it. They are not that hard to recreate with bits from the plumbing department. I made one set from a wooden dowel.

Steve

The Chief Seattle pictured was first produced, I believe, in 1971.  The earlier locomotives had a brass tender which can be easily determined with a magnet.

As for zinc pest issues with McCoy, I think it is safe to say that anything McCoy cast is subject to zinc pest.  Unfortunate but true.

Chris and David have done amazing work reproducing these parts using 3D printing.  Since many of the cast parts are trim, using the 3D parts "as printed" work fine.  Moving, or working parts require something more substantial.  Hennings makes reproduction drivers and are the go-to guys for cast Standard Gauge parts.  McCoy used an axle that was slightly larger than Lionel if memory serves (0.1875" vs 0.180") but my memory could be failing me.  As Chris posted he went one step farther with his 3D printing having printed the pilot truck for his Chief Cle Elum then having it machined in aluminum.

As David correctly pointed out,  we are all going to have a lot of money invested in these trains to make them fully operational again.  In some cases maybe even more than we originally paid for them.

If you are considering purchasing any McCoy items, take into account the potential additional cost for replacing the cast items.  I personally have not seen a circus wagon with intact original wheels in a long time.  Buyer beware.

Don

I concur with Don. Your missing cylinders were likely victims to the zinc-pest. All wheels are, especially if original, also likely victims. McCoy unfortunately is long gone and OEM parts aren't available. Attempts to create other cast parts and keep these otherwise well-built toys in running order is to resort to the 3D printer hobbyists and the basement machine shop hobbyists. I have five McCoy locomotives, and of this writing, only two are functional. The other three are in the backshop waiting for me to make parts.

@David Nissen posted:

The Steam Chest on the McCoy steam locomotives is another part that suffers from
"Zinc Pest". Attached is a picture of a steam chest that is starting to show signs of
"zinc pest". Also attached is a picture of a part that I machined from aluminum for
my own use. I spent 40 hours making this part. At the minimum wage of $15.00/hr that
comes out to $600.00 to repair a locomotive that I bought new for about $250.00.

If I need another part I will try a 3D printed part. I have made a 3D (STL) file for
this part (see third picture). I am going to print a test part to see if it looks
promising. If anyone else would like to try printing this part, send me an email and
I will send you the STL file. Just let me know how it turns out and what printer and
what material was used.

Another nice part - does it make sense to design the steam cylinders into the single part and print all of it? You do nice work Dave

Jim

@CArolina Shagger posted:

The Chief Seattle pictured was first produced, I believe, in 1971.  The earlier locomotives had a brass tender which can be easily determined with a magnet.

As for zinc pest issues with McCoy, I think it is safe to say that anything McCoy cast is subject to zinc pest.  Unfortunate but true.

Chris and David have done amazing work reproducing these parts using 3D printing.  Since many of the cast parts are trim, using the 3D parts "as printed" work fine.  Moving, or working parts require something more substantial.  Hennings makes reproduction drivers and are the go-to guys for cast Standard Gauge parts.  McCoy used an axle that was slightly larger than Lionel if memory serves (0.1875" vs 0.180") but my memory could be failing me.  As Chris posted he went one step farther with his 3D printing having printed the pilot truck for his Chief Cle Elum then having it machined in aluminum.

As David correctly pointed out,  we are all going to have a lot of money invested in these trains to make them fully operational again.  In some cases maybe even more than we originally paid for them.

If you are considering purchasing any McCoy items, take into account the potential additional cost for replacing the cast items.  I personally have not seen a circus wagon with intact original wheels in a long time.  Buyer beware.

Don

Thank you It seems my tender is later the magnet test failed. The front pilot truck on this engine is all metal not cast. So at least it is not prone to disintegrate

PaPa Thanks I'll need to be creative to make the cylinders . The engine is in really good condition I am surprise the cylinders are gone.

David I hope I'm not robbing the post   I thought it was related ,I may need some 3d printing in the future.

Steve,

By failing the magnet test I presume you mean the magnet stuck.  As I recall the water filler hatch on the earlier tenders was oval.  On the later tenders it is round.

Believe me it really pains me to say this but: even though the wheels on your pilot truck are still good, be prepared for their eventual replacement.  Look at the pilot wheels on Chris' pilot truck.

Don

Don.
The magnet did not stick to the tender. The wheels look ok for now. So I should not run it much
Here is the tender.

Sidehack

Thanks for the information on PETG and your temperature settings. Its only a matter of time before I am ready to try other materials and other 3D printers. Sharing information makes us all better in our hobbies.

Sergpride

You are not robbing the post, my next 3D print project will be the steam cylinders. Check back after a couple of days.

Cj Meyers

I have also 3D printed a front truck for the McCoy steam locomotive. I have decided to use the plastic part. How is the headlight on your Chief Cle Elum. This is another part that sometimes suffer from "zinc pest".

Results

My first 3D print of the steam chest shows great promise. A few changes and I think that I will have a very useable part. I think by printing some test parts that I have solved some hole size problems and have made improvements in the surface finish. My goal is to have a finished part off of the printer except for taping the threaded holes.

Dave, I thought that 3D printers cost much more than yours.

Can I have more info about it either here or by an email?

I doubt that I am the only reader of this post with the same question.

My email is in my profile.

David is using an Ender 3 - google it, they are sold all over the place, very popular printer.

Jim

I chose the Ender 3 Pro because it had good revues and was inexpensive. It came as a kit and had to be assembled. The major parts were assembled. You have to be prepared to play with settings to get a good print. I made many small test parts to check out different settings. Small parts are necessary for testing as 3D printing is a slow process.

The attached photos show a McCoy Steam Chest and Steam Cylinders. The Steam Chest took 12 hours to print and the cylinders took 3 1/2 hours each. This is still quicker than it takes me to machine the parts from aluminum

Those steam cylinders look great !!

@David Nissen posted:

The McCoy underfloor motors can suffer from "Zinc Pest". The motor side frames
warp and cause the motors to fail. I decided to see if I could 3D print these

side frames. The frame was made beefier in places where there was room. I
presently have two of these motors with 3D plastic side frames running. One is
in a McCoy trolley, and one is in a Wapid Wabbit.

David How is this holding up ?

My Latest purchase a prototype.

Wow...a "McCoy Prototype"; must have some value, yes?

I see now by "side frames", you mean the inner frame that holds everything together. I was initially confused 'cause I thought McCoy side frames were steel...and I guess the outer frames are(?) Obviously I know nothing about Mccoy stuff...  

Mark in Oregon

@Sergpride posted:

My Latest purchase a prototype.

Serg - is this the one from the Arno Baars auction? Congrats! But looks like you'll need a motor.

Jim

@Jim Waterman posted:

Serg - is this the one from the Arno Baars auction? Congrats! But looks like you'll need a motor.

Jim

Jim. No it wasn't . I wish I had known about the action :-(

Do you know where I can get a motor ?

Steve, no current info about where to get a replacement drive. Bob McCoy jr made an improved version that had aluminum side plates, but I believe that he is finished with making anything. Ira Keeler passed away too. David Nissan's 3d printed parts work very nicely to replace the zinc alloy parts, but there is some work to building it up. Steve Eastman, who is on this board, has done that with 2 of his locos (at least).

David is offering the printable program (STL) for free if you contact him. I thought it may be advisable to contact the OGR forum guys to post his printable files, but I see now that the price is a digital membership to the magazine, so not quite free.

Jim

I am in the process of submitting 3D printer files to the OGR 3D Project Catalog. I believe that this is going to be the best way to make these files available to those that can use them. The OGR format make it possible to include descriptions, photos, instructions, and other important information along with the 3D STL files.

Many of these projects are for replacement parts for McCoy Standard Gauge Trains that have parts that have suffered from "Zinc Pest".

McCoy parts that I have 3D printed include the following:  

  McCoy Steam Engines
    Steam Chest
    Steam Cylinders
    Flag Holder
    Front Truck
    Headlight (Chief Cle Ulum)
  McCoy Bobber Caboose
    Journals
  McCoy Circus Wagons
    Large Wheels
    Small Wheels
  McCoy Underfloor Motor
    Trolley Motor Sideframes
    Wapid Wabbit Motor Sideframes
    Daniels GG1
  McCoy Power Pickup
    To add lighting to passenger cars
    To add 2nd pickup to trolley

David

Kind of ironic that because of zinc pest issues, McCoy started his business by making diecast replacement wheels for Lionel and American Flyer trains. Now McCoy trains ended up with the same problem.

@David Nissen posted:

The McCoy underfloor motors can suffer from "Zinc Pest". The motor side frames
warp and cause the motors to fail. I decided to see if I could 3D print these

side frames. The frame was made beefier in places where there was room. I
presently have two of these motors with 3D plastic side frames running. One is
in a McCoy trolley, and one is in a Wapid Wabbit.

David did you modify the front truck. I see the front has a pickup and the axles are covered ?

@Jim Waterman posted:

Steve, no current info about where to get a replacement drive. Bob McCoy jr made an improved version that had aluminum side plates, but I believe that he is finished with making anything. Ira Keeler passed away too. David Nissan's 3d printed parts work very nicely to replace the zinc alloy parts, but there is some work to building it up. Steve Eastman, who is on this board, has done that with 2 of his locos (at least).

David is offering the printable program (STL) for free if you contact him. I thought it may be advisable to contact the OGR forum guys to post his printable files, but I see now that the price is a digital membership to the magazine, so not quite free.

Jim

Thanks for the information. as of now I need three sets of side frames.
Dennis" Larock "has offered to help me get this done too.

I see the update from David.

Thank you for doing this as I have many flats with circus wagons that need replacement wheels