New LED passenger car lighting kits

I am interested!

How do I get in touch with Jack?

Thanks,
Steffen

This is great news for us LED challenged people that may only have 5 passenger cars to convert. Thanks for doing all the research and testing so that the rest of us can also get appropriate lighting for our passenger cars. I hope Jack Pearce continues to make these units. Thanks again.

I only have an 8 car set but would be interested in converting to LED. lets us know.

Thank you for your great work on this. I realize the LED lighting is the main point but the photographs of the GN train with the beautiful scenery and spectacular night lighting are also appreciated.

The great thing about LEDs in addition to their very low current draw is that they will usually last at least a lifetime in normal model railroad use.

Thanks and please keep us informed.

Dave;

I think it's safe to say that a whole bunch of us are or will be interested in this lighting option.
Tell Jack that we'll be waiting patiently for this to come to fruition.

Dave,

2ma per car is incredible. Are these some kind of new super efficient LEDs?

If you wire the LEDs in series they will pull 20 ma total (Ohms law). A car then will use a half watt or less. This can only be done for command control or conventional non constant voltage. Once you use a regulator for constant voltage lighting then the LEDs must be wired in parallel. this takes more power but still much less than light bulbs. For those wiring LEDs here is a handy calculator that will circuit them for you. Series wiring is recommended normally for efficiency. Calculator assumes DC current,so multiply the pulsed AC current by 1.4 after the rectifier.

http://ledcalculator.net/

Have never seen 2ma LEDs

here is their website

http://www.acriche.com/en/product/prd/acriche.asp

I can not find them,please furnish part number.

Dale H

Any product Jack sells is first rate.

Hi guys,

Here's Jack's contact info. It's his home phone number but he said he doesn't mind people giving him a call.

Jack Pearce
19 Alpine Way, RR #1
Shanty Bay, ON, Canada L0L 2L0

jack_pearce4@sympatico.ca

(705) 835-2202

quote:

Tell Jack that we'll be waiting patiently for this to come to fruition.

No waiting Chuck. The boards are done and ready to go.

I didn't bring a board home with me over the weekend. When I get to the NWTL on Monday I'll take some photos and post them. Each board is about 16 inches long and has six LED's. A pair of wires comes off the board at one end that get wired directly to the existing power wires. All the circuitry for the LED's is already on the boards. It's about as easy as it gets for e retro fit kit. You still have to figure out how to mount the board inside the car, but that's not hard in most cases. I'll post a photo Monday of how they mount in K-Line cars. Each board actually has two circuits. One circuit drives the warm white LED's. The second circuit is available to wire extra LED's for marker lights, drum heads, etc.

quote:

2ma per car is incredible. Are these some kind of new super efficient LEDs?

They are some of the latest and greatest gallium indium nitride LED's from Seoul Semiconductor, but they're not really that "special." They're rated like most LED's at 20mA. However, you only need to drive them at 20mA if you want the full lighting output. At 20mA these things are as bright or brighter than the stock K-Line incandescent lighting strips. I cut them down to only 2mA because I wanted less light. One of the neat features of Jack's boards is the circuit drives a constant amperage rather than just a constant voltage. The amperage is adjustable by changing a single resistor. Again, I'll show more about this on Monday.

Here's a few photos that give some idea of how the cars looked at different phases of testing.

Stock K-Line lighting.


Jack's old lighting strip with yellow LED's


Test board with cool white LED's with orange filters


Jack's new boards with warm white LED's


BTW, Jack also had some boards made up with cool white LED's. These are color matched for modern commuter cars and subways bright fluorescent lighting.

Dave;

Thanks for the information.

Hello
This is Jack Pearce. I wish to thank Dave Hikel for all his input and patience during the development of these soft white lighting boards. Dave set the standard as to what the light quality had to be, no compromises. It took a lot of attempts but success was achieved. It will be difficult to find other boards that can match the light quality and the many extra features of these boards. The boards have been designed to be as user friendly as possible. There are three light color options available: yellow, appropriate for the older heavyweights which draw 20 mA per car ($28 per board), harsher white with a bluish shade for modern commuter and subway cars which draw 2 mA per car ($28 per board), and soft white for the passenger cars that Dave pictured which draw 2 mA per car ($30 per board). Filtering for customizing the color tint with the bluish boards is available.
Every board already has a second circuit (25mA per board) ready to access. It is used for supporting up to 7 additional LEDs of any color for illuminating the marker lights, drum head light, and vestibule lighting. On some of my cars, I install an on/off switch that control marker lights in case the consist is shortened and the Observation car is not used. If you are super serious about the passenger car set lighting, I had an MTH Premier dining car at York with all the lighting PLUS each of the 18 tables had its own LIT CANDLE. For that option, you would have to send your dining car to me as it is brutally difficult to do. I wasn't going to start taking orders for doing those until the Oct York show but people are already having their name put on a list for this winter.
For those of you who have my custom lit vehicles, you know the quality justifies the expense. For me, "the discontent of poor quality persists long after the thrill of a discount price has faded" is a constant reminder that the people upgrading their trains demand the best quality there is.
During the summer I am a College Math prof. Once September comes, I am busy completing the vehicle orders from the April York show. If I can help with your passenger car upgrades, please pose your questions by either emailing me at jack_pearce4@sympatico.ca or calling me at (705) 835-2202 or writing to me at 19 Alpine Way, RR#1, Shanty Bay, ON, Canada L0L 2L0.

Good job they look good!

Just as an alternate Golden Gate has boards with 4 warm lights link here;
Golden Gate Light Boards

I had converted some cars quite a few years back.
I used LED Christmas lights the small ones, forgetting the details a bit but did a large fleet of cars. I think it was 6 bulbs from the LED light string, a 330 Ohm resistor, taped or screwed them to the roof of the cars depending on what models they were. They still work well.
The Golden Gate boards work OK but they are 4 lights not 6 which would give a better more even light spread. I got a few to redo my Golden Gate cars.

As Dave said if you have a long passenger train with regular lights they suck the power. I had 15 cars MTH passenger and 3 locos it popped the breaker on the Lionel 180 Watt brick. Since converting them to LED I can now run 2 trains no problem.

I wrote a how-to article on how to install Jack's LED lighting kit in passenger cars. The article will appear in a future issue of OGR magazine.

quote:

Originally posted by Jack4:
There are three light color options available: yellow, appropriate for the older heavyweights which draw 20 mA per car ($28 per board), harsher white with a bluish shade for modern commuter and subway cars which draw 2 mA per car ($28 per board), and soft white for the passenger cars that Dave pictured which draw 2 mA per car ($30 per board).

Now that wasn't something I thought of. Yellow for old woodie coaches to simulate kerosene lighting, bluish to simulate fluorescent in commuter and modern cars, warm white for incandescent heavyweight coaches.

Since I am just an operator, all I care about is the cars light! But if I was a modeler and stickler for detail then lighting would have to be considered, to be "politically correct" (as it were).

As an aside "war story", I would ride the evening PRR from College to home (8 hours+). One time I was in a coach that had the old beltdriven generator set. Apparently the batteries were bad, disconnected or whatever. So as the train slowed down so did the incandescent lights dim and quit, and vice versa. Made an interesting night ride home as our lights went up and down with the speed. Now there's a project to model, a coach with bad lighting set that varies with speed.

The possibilities using LEDs are limitless.

I've been experimenting with these mini surface mount LEDs to light the cab interior when the engine is stopped. The 2 bulbs that Lionel were way too bright and couldn't be controlled by the LED circuit.

These are not much bigger than a pin head.





This picture of the cab roof is over twice the size of the model.





I will look forward to trying Jack's passenger car lighting. The vast improvement in electrical draw is significant.

LEDs are the way to go!

Hi guys,

I did quite a bit of research into the history of passenger car lighting to figure out what was "correct" for each type of car. There were some major mile stones in the history of passenger car lighting but as Sam's story attests change took a while to filter through the entire car fleet.

In the early days of railroading passenger cars were outfitted with nothing more than a couple of wall sconces with candles. This gave just enough light for people to safely move about the car. The light color was between 1800 and 2000 degrees K (very yellow) and only about 2 Footcandles (FCd) in intensity. In the late 1800's several gas lighting systems were introduced that made it less expensive to produce enough light that people could actually read their evening news paper. These systems still used an old flame to produce light because the mantles used in home gas lights were too fragile for rail cars. These systems gave around 15 FCd at 2200 to 2400˚K (about like a nice restaurant). Early attempts at using electric lighting were plagued with problems. Light bulb filaments were too fragile for rail service, electricity was generated only when the cars moved, batteries were expensive and required maintenance, etc. For nearly 30 years (1880's to 1907) gas lamps were the best option for most railroads. All that changed in 1907 when two pieces of technology were introduced. The first was the tungsten filament light bulb. It was more durable, more efficient, and produced a whiter light than earlier bulbs. This is the warm incandescent light we all know and love to this day. The second inovation was the GE Curtis turbine steam generator. This gave head end power that was independent of the movement of the train and was vastly more efficient than adding extra drag with truck generators. Incandescent electric lighting in heavyweight passenger cars was typically around 40FCd at 2800˚K. This is about what you'd see in your own home in a bedroom with a couple 60w light bulbs. The first commercial fluorescent electric lights were introduced by GE in 1938. By the end of that year the New York Central was retrofitting older cars with fluorescent lighting. Virtually all streamlined passenger cars were built with fluorescent overhead lighting and incandescent task lighting (sinks, closets, reading lamps, etc.). The fluorescent bulbs themselves produced light at 3500˚K. However, the plastic fixtures that held the bulbs quickly yellowed in service due to UV output from the bulbs. This effect along with the presence of incandescent task lights meant that the streamlined and heavyweight passenger cars had very similar light color (around 3100˚K) but were much brighter at around 150 FCd (typical retail store). More modern commuter cars, like the Bombardier Bi-Level cars, and subway cars typically use less expensive "cool white" fluorescent bulbs. Interior light in these environments is usually around 200FCd and 6500˚K.

The LED's on Jack's new "warm white" boards produce light at about 3000˚K. They're a near perfect match for both heavyweight and streamlined passenger cars from as early as 1907 through to today's excursion trains. The new "cool white" boards are an excellent fit subway and commuter cars from the 1960's on. Like I said, we did a LOT of testing and tuning.

Thanks for narrowing it down Dave, it saves the me the expense of experimentation. That's great!

i would LOVE to put these LED's in my passenger cars!! approx. how much would it cost to put these LED's in 18 mth premier passenger cars? my layout size is 38'x20' and i use 2 mth z-4000 transformers w/DCS, 2 abba diesel engines with 9 passenger cars each on the same loop of track divided into 2 power districts( 1 z-4000 in each power district). when running both trains at the same time without smoke on, the two passenger trains use approx 8 amps each! i thinks that is way too much power consumption for each passenger train. i'm hoping that these LED light will cut down on the amount of power that i have to use to run 2 passenger trains at the same time!!...............rogerw.

Hi marker,

Those overhead interior lights look great. Where did you find the mini white LED's? I see in your first photo the LED has been wired up. Do you have a source that is offering the mini LED's with leads?

They are Richmond Controls LEDs.
Richmond Controls

I've been buying them through Ulrich Models.
Ulrich Models

Richmond Controls has some nice LEDs, including one called a Sunny White that does not look as yellow as a Golden White when off. You might check their stuff out. I just started working with LEDs and find very interesting.

One tip I found that you are probably aware of, is that for the bluish LEDs that were used a few years ago can be improved. If you already have engines with the bluish white LED's,you can buy Tamiya Clear Orange and paint the LED's. Makes them light more yellowish. It won't be perfect, but it's easier than replacing all the LED's in your fleet (assuming you have a bunch

rogerw "how much would it cost to put these LED's in 18 mth premier passenger cars?"

quote:

The boards have been designed to be as user friendly as possible. There are three light color options available: yellow, appropriate for the older heavyweights which draw 20 mA per car ($28 per board), harsher white with a bluish shade for modern commuter and subway cars which draw 2 mA per car ($28 per board), and soft white for the passenger cars that Dave pictured which draw 2 mA per car ($30 per board). Filtering for customizing the color tint with the bluish boards is available.

over 500 hundred $ if I read it correctly.

Jack is a real credit to our hobby. He is one of my first stops at York in the Orange Hall. Any product I have purchased from him is flawless.

I expect that when Dave posts pictures of the boards being installed, it will be shown that there is a competed second independent circuit ready to access on each board. This circuit supports up to seven additional LEDs. I use this circuit for specialty lighting on some of the passenger cars. When used, this circuit draws approximatly 25 mA. Specialty lighting includes vestibule lighting, drum head lighting, floor lighting in dome cars, marker lights, step lights and lit candles on dining car tables. Three dozen fully lit cars all compete with specialty lighting require approximately 1 A. If only the pimary lighting circuit is used for the regular lighting, 1 A would supply 500 passenger cars.
Before adding more power supplies and rewiring layouts for more and longer passenger trains, serious thought should be given to alternate lighting for the cars. Older passenger sets that have been mothballed because their lighting is inappropriate can be upgraded with era appropriate lighting and brought back into regular service. Certainly it is less expensive to upgrade as compared to purchasing a new set.
The boards have built in rectification so that no modification is required for use on 2 rail fixed voltage layouts.

The passenger sets that I converted using LED Christmas light strings purchased in then after season sales cost me about $30 total to do 4 full passenger sets with the resistors they still work well!

That's excellent Dave. It's very well designed and very versatile. I will be looking into using Jack's product. It's easy to see why you are so enthused.

Will these boards fit easily in K-line 15" cars?

To Professor Chaos:
The board is 15 5/8" long. If one section is removed as in Dave's pictures, the board is then 14 3/8" long. I put these boards in my 15" MTH passenger cars with the silhouet figures in the frosted windows. I haven't taken a K-Line 15" car apart but I assume it has a similar interior. If you email me the car part numbers, I will check into it for you. Jack

Why aren't Atlas, Lionel, MTH, and K-Lionel already using this technology? No affront to Mr. Pearce and all his r&d and hard work, but it's not practical. I just remortgaged my home, and I can only do 2 sets of 8 passenger cars a month if I were to use my payment savings!!!

The "cool white" boards could also be referred to as "commuter car blue" as they are a perfect match for the New York, Chicago, Maryland, California and New Jersey Transit cars. They are the same boards (just different intensity LEDs) as the "warm white" boards. Any features Dave Hikel has mentioned for the "warm white" boards also apply the the "cool white" boards.

Dave, I'm installing Jacks boards in a set of MTH Premier Blue Comet cars.
On the observation car, can I use the led's already there or do I need different ones?
Steve C.

I have been considering switching my fleet of passenger cars over to LED's. Less power and better reliablity.

But there is another warm white LED design on the market that does not require the addition of a circuit board to each passenger car. Please see attached link.

How does this design compare to Jack's. Can anybody identify the advantages and disadvantages over Jack's design. It appears the one in the link below are just splice in LED's with no addition of a circuit board.

http://www.modeltrainsoftware.com/bl-212.html

quote:

Originally posted by ptalar:
I have been considering switching my fleet of passenger cars over to LED's. Less power and better reliablity.

But there is another warm white LED design on the market that does not require the addition of a circuit board to each passenger car. Please see attached link.

How does this design compare to Jack's. Can anybody identify the advantages and disadvantages over Jack's design. It appears the one in the link below are just splice in LED's with no addition of a circuit board.

http://www.modeltrainsoftware.com/bl-212.html

Most all LEDs need a resistor and also a rectifier (if run off AC current). The ones above have these built in for you. For that you pay $$$s. LEDs can be had for 35 cents each. Since they last a lifetime they are cheaper than light bulbs. Here is an earlier post I made with 3 different ways to circuit them.

http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve...=368107284#368107284

An additional advantage besides saving money of doing your own is you can make them to suit your tastes.

Not knocking Jacks work,it is excellent. Can not comment on the circuit itself because no schematic is given or components listed.

Dale H

I'm just hoping that this is good for dcs signal. I think everything should be delivered with LEDs now days. This premade board is a great way for us to get into LEDs. I got frustrated comparing some of the high end LED surface mount chips that are so small I could not handle them. I wish I could have gone to York... again! Joe

When I saw these boards at York, I asked if the boards could be used if I didn't use DCS or TMCC. I run in conventional mode almost 100% of the time. Jack said I needed to keep the 18 V on the track at all times for the LEDs to work correctly. Jack, is this still true or did I mis-understand??

Frank,
I asked him the same question, and got the same answer: You need 18v on the rails for these to really work as they are designed.

BTW, the boards that Jack had at York were awesome! I like the idea that you can pretty much get whatever character lighting you want. He really thought this product out.

Also, the extra circuit he has on the board WILL handle the marker lights and drum head on K-Line Heavy Weight observations.

Chris
LVHR

I wrote an article on installing Jack Pierce's lighting kit in passenger coaches. It will appear in the December issue of OGR Magazine.

Hi guys,

quote:

Originally posted by corsair29:
Dave, I'm installing Jacks boards in a set of MTH Premier Blue Comet cars.
On the observation car, can I use the led's already there or do I need different ones?
Steve C.

Steve, the marker and drum head lights on the MTH passenger cars are incandescent, not LED's. If you want to run them off of the second circuit on Jack's board you will need to replace them with LED's. Pretty much any 3mm (T1) red LED's will work fine for the markers. For the drum head you'll want a warm white LED. I've used some wide angle 3mm LED's scavenged from IKEA LED Christmas lights with good results. Very often you will want to paint the drum head LED with white paint to dim it down for a soft glow.

quote:

Originally posted by Enginear-Joe:
I'm just hoping that this is good for dcs signal. I think everything should be delivered with LEDs now days. This premade board is a great way for us to get into LEDs. I got frustrated comparing some of the high end LED surface mount chips that are so small I could not handle them. I wish I could have gone to York... again! Joe

Joe, Jack's boards were designed with command control in mind. They do not cause interfearance with DCS. Don't worry, your time at York will come!

Frank and Chris, sorry to say but this board was designed specifically for command control. To make it work properly on conventional would require parallel rather than series wiring and would consume 6 to 10 times as much current. One option you might consider is running the boards off battery power. At only 2mA of current draw the boards would run for 75 to 125 hours off a coupler 9 volt batteries wired in series for 18 volts. You can also run the boards at lower voltages by removing some of the LED's. Just three LED's can provide plenty of light for the cars but it will not be spread out as evenly. In this configuration the board will run on just 9 volts. The capacitors on Jack's boards will keep the lights on when cycling power for a direction change.

Dave,

quote:

You need 18v on the rails for these to really work as they are designed.

That means a steady 18v, which implies a command control environment.

Also, I did speak to Jack specifically about K-Line Heavy Weight Observation cars with drumhead and markers. He told me he thought the lights were grain of rice or grain of wheat lights, and that the circuit board could handle those without a problem or modification. I remember thinking "Good! I don't need to replace them with LEDs!" But if I have to, then so be it.

Chris
LVHR