Recommended grades

You can get away with a steeper grade but it will shorten the length of the train you can pull.

Regards,

Eric S.

Saline, MI

MTH & Lionel graduated trestle sets have about 6% grades. I use the MTH Real Trax trestles and I have run 10-car passenger trains on them with Rail King locomotives having traction tires. I would not exceed 6% grades.

Your grade is going to be a certain height after so many feet when you reach the top (Or bottom.) Then you will want to transition to keep your rigid wheelbase engines from losing grip or flanges and also prevent your long stock from "Bottoming out"

I have always viewed 6% as too much. I don't like to get into 3+% without helper engines. I am not certain if O gauge engines allow a weight of the train to push on them without bucking as some do in HO.

Regarding train length, If a engine can stop, wait and then restart a proper train on your grade without too much slipping, you are doing good. If not? You are going to need a second engine or leave half the train at the bottom and come back for the rest and reassemble at the top. (Or even "Triple" the grade.")

I use a 5% grade and have no problem pulling 8-10 cars up and down. One way to help the scene is to place scenery or buildings  around the grade to help hide it,

How do you get the track to transition from flat to "going up" so the locomotives don't bottom out or scrape the pilot on the track?

I used the risers from Scenery Express. If I remember they come in 2ft lengths with various grades.  Combining several grades of risers will give you the elevation you want and small pieces can be used to take out a low spot.

A rule of thumb I use is start the grade with the longest piece of equipment. In O that will be two feet prior to the actual start of the grade uphill.

I also try to make sure switches and such are on the grade itself at least two feet from any transitions or changes.

It helps keep an engine's front driving wheel flange from lifting above the rail-head at the summit.

And finally I hardly have enough room for a proper grade =)

Cheers.

Kerrigan, This has been covered but probably lost to time.

You make the grade with a single piece of 1/2 or 3/4 plywood of needed width.

Starting at least a foot back screw it down solid on the flat, then lift the ply as you go letting it arc naturally. Seems to me that was the boiled down version of the explanation. Do the same thing at the top. Screw down flat for a foot then start drooping it.

Makes a shallow s curve seen from the side.

And keep any switches at least engine length away from any change in grade.

Yes, this means you can put a switch on the grade, just make sure the track adjacent to the switch are flat to the switch angle of grade.

And for a Reality check;

The Big Boy was Designed to pull a 3600 ton consist over a 4% grade in the Wasatch mountains without a helper.

It could do so at about 35 mph and ran over 60 mph on the flat with the same load.

I see no problem with a 4 to 5% grade on my layout.

Andy, you have run and seen many trains run on my layout.  The main line has a ~2.5% to 2.7% grade (do not confuse % with degrees).  Everything I have runs great, single engine, with 25 to 30 car consist.  My mountain logging line was going to be 7% without switch backs.  You could really see the engine performance go down.  I am putting in a small switch back to keep the grade just below 6%.  I need more room!!!!  Even the Shays, Climax, and Heisler will be happier on the 5-6 % grade.    - Dan

One thing to remember is that a loco has to work harder pulling up a curved slope.  I like to run long trains sometimes so I stay with 3% on straights and 2% on 48 inch or tighter curves, 2.5% for 60 inch or 72 inch curves.  

If it matters, Superstreets vehicles with traction tires can climb 10% grades with few problems, so you can make road grades a lot higher angle than rail grades, just like the real world.

If you use sectional track:

> be sure to avoid having a track joint in the transitions in and out of a grade;

> be certain to have a pier or other support at all track joints in the grade.

There is an old trick for those with small layouts that need to get high enough to cross over another track. Put your main track in the middle and then go down with one track and up with the other. That way you only need to go up or down half of the hight need to cross over the other track. It takes more thinking and engineering but you can get away with smaller grades.

Al

The answer to you question depends a great deal on the engine and the type of track. This is my experience:

On a 3% grade, Gargraves track:

Single motor Geep (Pullmor) w/ magnetraction pulls 8 cars.

Starter-set Geep (single horizontally-mounted can motor) with tires pulls 7 cars.

224E with nickel tires and no magnetraction pulls 5 cars.

Diesel with dual vertical motors, or steamer with one large can motor and traction tires, pulls 15+ cars.

Our cars are mostly modern, plastic with die-cast trucks and fast-angle wheels. Average of one postwar car per consist.

Contrary to expectation, I find that certain engines more easily pull the train uphill on the curves. (Our curves are O-54 and O-66). I suspect that this is due to the flanges biting on the sides of the rail. On tighter curves, this might be negated by the increased drag of the cars.

Ruling grade over the Wasatch is 1.14%

Thank you Russell and Lee; very helpful advice.

I noticed on one of our grades which is 1.45% the Sunset Challenger slips drivers toward the top trying to get a 8 car GGD train up the grade around the 80 curve at the top.  The MTH Challenger, being cast, makes it without any problem.

Thanks for all the input.  It has been very helpful. I am running on Fastrack.  I definitely do not want to exceed a 3% grade.  I needed to know what was and was not working from the members on the forum.  Thanks again

I pulled a 23% loaded one fine day in upstate vermont.

The Little Kitty 350 did it but took an hour (2 miles straight up) at less than walking speed. Lowest gear and essentially max RPM against the Tach's top end. It was either make it or never and I was ready for the stall at any time. I made it... I have never seen all the gauges in the cab into the far yellows and reds for so long and yet keep driving.

Not until that day or ever after. There is a reason why that sign said upgrade ahead no less than 350 horse power permitted.

What grade can you get away with if just running trolleys? I was thinking of about 8% or 5 feet to raise 5 inches. Would this work?

Dale H

John

I am not clear on what you are saying. Is the grade a parabola shape? I am trying to save some real estate.

Dale H

I have a 3% grade going up a O72 curve and most locomotives can do it fine pulling a pretty good size train.  I don't think I would go any steeper then that.

I did an experimental 4.5% grade with an immediate transition to flat, and my MTH Camelback would sometimes spin with a long consist at the top as the traction tires were unweighted.  This is the reason for the transition, you just decrease the grade for a track section before transitioning to flat at the top.

I don't leave that much for the transition, but it's a good diagram.   I like to make sure at least the locomotive trucks are completely on the transition section.

Originally, my PRR Panhandle had a pretty severe grade (6.9% ).  I could still get my Williams K4s to pull 5 18-inch heavyweight passenger cars over it, but it was a struggle.  The trouble with grades is that you need a lot of room to make them look realistic.  I have since reduced all grades on the layout significantly.  This has improved running performance and it looks a lot better.

I would think long and hard about grades unless you have lots of space.

George

I have a grade on my layout, where I used the Lionel graduated trestle set. I used all the trestles, to complete the one grade, by "shimming" trestles of the same height, to effectively lessen the total grade percentage. This grade is pretty much all part of an .060 Fastrack curve. Ultimately, the grade works out to about 3.5%, and I have no problems up or down, pulling a 7 car Aluminim Passenger train headed by a Lionel Legacy F3 ABA unit, or as seen in the pic the Lionel NS Tank train, with 8 cars.

I'm sure I could add another 3 or 4 cars to these consists if I wanted to. I don't see any signs at all of the trains struggling to make this grade. The "Odyssey" speed control system is an amazing feature, keeping the speed consistent up or down the grade.

This is an early pic of the grade area which I set up for trial runs.

REV

Perhaps is is NOW, but it has been regraded (and re-routed) at least twice since the Big Boys were made. Check the History, part of it Was 4% back then, and most trains needed lots of help.

John S

Thanks for the drawing.

Dale H

I used a cookie cutter for the top on my old layout, and it worked well for the grade. Nice smooth transition at both ends.

Andy