10 Year Old Champ Decals OK To Use ?

1st off, there are very few Champ decals that are younger than 10 years old and the vast majority are probably older.

They may  "go bad" but you can test that using some bit cut from the page by putting it in some water assess structural integrity.  It is holds and you can remove it, slide it off the paper, and onto another surface, you're probably good to go on the rest of the decal page.  When in doubt, you can just spray the entire decal page with gloss coat, let that dry, and use as usual.

Or, you can just spray the entire decal page with gloss coat, let that dry, and use as usual w/o the test stage.  I've used decals that are many decades old though and very rarely have any failed.

Mayb

EBT Jim posted:

There are some Champ decal sets online that I would like to purchase. 

Do these decals "go bad" in some way? 

My experience: Maybe, maybe not.  It's been a very iffy thing in my own experience (mostly HO decals...but probably not of anything special compared to the O versions.)

However, I've adopted my own policy of pre-coating old decals....those for which I have no idea how they were stored and for how long....with Microscale's Decal Film...

Decal Film Link

It's worked well on keeping the film from disintegrating into a bazillion pieces once removed from the backing paper, but it does NOT help in getting the old backing paper/glue to release from the film.  The latter situation has mostly occurred for me on VERY old decals.

The other 'downside' to coating old decals with MS's Decal Film, is that the resulting decal film is thicker, resulting in more 'witness' of the decal after finishing....even with multiple coats of the setting solution(s).  But, since I'm not entering these models into contests judged by pickers-of-nit, it's always been to my own satisfaction....the most important criteria of all.

Before doing anything with the most significant parts of the decal, however, you might want to select an INsignificant portion....something that will NOT be a part of the model....to try out.  You know, soak in water to check the release of the film, see whether the film disintegrates into a bazillion pieces, etc., etc..

But, since it's becoming harder and harder to find the decals you'd really like to use, I'd suggest grabbing them when they're available.  THEN, at least, you have that most fundamental step taken care of: Possession!

Just some thoughts...

KD

Champ decals were very high-quality and had a nice thick film (unlike Microscale), at least in O scale, but the bigger the scale the less the film thickness shows. 10 years old is probably nothing; some of mine are 20+ or more and still fine.

But - a "test strip" won't hurt anything. I wouldn't use the overspray of Glosscote unless your test shows some weaknesses. I have tried some pretty old (not Champ) decals with an overspray and they disintegrated anyway. 

IF you hold the decal sheet sort of flat under a light so it glares off the decal sheet, you will cracks if it bad, and no cracks if not.    As mentioned above, you can coat with one of the decal films and be good to go.

I handle all decals carefullly and try to slide from the paper to surface without much picking up just to be careful.

My spin as a decal manufacture.....

I've used 30 year old decals without a issue.

I've had new decals shatter when they hit the water. 

Depends on so many variables you could write a book,

Cut a decal from sheet that is not vital and see. Clear spray can help some older decals but I use only if needed. 

They'll be fine.

Champ was good stuff.

I have a moderately large collection of Champ decals, most of them purchased back in the early 90s.  With the exception of one sheet of steam engine tender capacities, I have never had any issues with them breaking while being soaked or applied.  I suspect the tender one likely came from a rare "bad batch" of decal film.

The decals I have had some issues with are Walthers O scale.  While they are desirable because they offer rare, hard to find graphics, they are are tough to apply due to the films being relatively thin and fragile.  Despite that, I have managed to get good results.  Here is one of the reefers I did using them:

BTW...  One group of decals I'd appreciate some advice on are the Strombecker decal sheets for the B&O and UP E7's in their wooden streamliner model sets.  I have some of those sheets that are in 'pretty good' condition...slight curl, maybe...no discoloration of the paper backing...no hint of cracking when held up to the light but not de-curled...etc., etc.   But I fondly (?) recall Dad's first attempt to apply the B&O set to my painted core back 60 years or so ago.  He tried applying the whole length of the sides/roof.  Learned some new blue words with that failed attempt.  Of course, back then you simply wrote to Strombecker and obtained a fresh sheet....which Dad carefully cut into, I believe, three sections each side.  Bingo!  The UP E7 went on easier after that.

But, of course, those original models found their way to a landfill.....probably....along with several  Strombecker airplane models.....like the B-29!!!!()

So, no more airplanes, but I've been living the youthful dream in finding the old Strombecker train kits and building anew.   Except......for those two streamliners.  Unless I can put some confidence into the decal situation, they'll stay kits for now.  Not sure my own success and techniques with Champ, Walthers, et al for HO or O would translate as successfully to these relics.

Any hints?  Any like experience with those sets?  Moreover....KNOW ANYONE WHO'S MADE NEW REPRO SHEETS FOR THOSE MODELS????

Thanks for any help.  And, sorry for hijacking somewhat this thread.

KD

Thanks for all the info, guys. I'm going to buy them.

The $20 per "set" price was also making me hesitant. I have two undecorated engines on order, and I was going to order extra decals since I figured I'd screw something up, as a newbie. lol. Maybe I won't order the extras.

Is the $20 price somewhat fair? I see on Microscale's website that the list price on their O scale decal sheets is $8.50. Do you get more with Champ? The seller really has a lot of Champ decals.... maybe he bought up much of Champ's stock when they closed up? I don't know.

Anyway, Champ made them ....  and I'm almost positive that I need them .... so, I'm getting them.

Thanks, again.

EBT Jim posted:

 I believe that Champ went out of business in 2010.

 

 

Champ actually closed down in 2004 after Richard Meyer (the last owner) passed away.  His wife Connie briefly continued to fill orders, but ended up selling the remaining inventory.  There are conflicting stories about whether one buyer purchased the entire remaining stock or whether it was parceled out to multiple parties.

I've been using Champ decals since the 80's. If the decal package has  a white label (with the contents printed on it) applied to the front of the manila envelope, then the decal is the from the newest production probably from the 90's. This still makes them 20 or so years old, but all of mine have held up well with no disintegration when applying. If there is no white label and the contents are printed directly on the envelope then the decal is older production. These should be clear coated before using. However really old decals (30 + years) or damaged from being stored in a non conditioned area (like an attic) are pretty hopeless. The really old decal envelopes have the contents printed directly on the envelope with an older font. These decals tend to curl around the edges when applied to a surface. No amount of decal setting solution will get these to lie flat. Again if the decals have the white label on the package they are probably OK.

Ken

kanawha posted:

The really old decal envelopes have the contents printed directly on the envelope with an older font. These decals tend to curl around the edges when applied to a surface. No amount of decal setting solution will get these to lie flat. Again if the decals have the white label on the package they are probably OK.

Ken

My experience with the "vintage" Champs you describe has been different, perhaps because of the way they have been stored.  I keep them in their original envelopes, which are in a sealed container stored in my finished cellar, which has a dehumidifier running 24/7/365.   I have not had any issues with them curling and judicious application of original Champ Decal Set makes them consistently and fully conform to whatever surface I've applied them to. 

The only Champ decals I would not recommend are the late production ones with pinkish backing papers that were printed using ALPS technology (shown below).  I'm not sure why Champ went to that process (perhaps because that short-lived technology could print true white and metallic colors), but whatever the reason it resulted in a different -- and inferior-- product compared to the originals.  The ALPS decals definitely require additional sealant  and even when I've applied that have had issues with their print fragmenting when it is exposed to moisture.   

EBT Jim posted:

I'm a novice. Do these decals "go bad" in some way? Should I avoid? They are coming from a seller that seems to have many Champ decals in stock .... not someone's scraps.

Thanks

 

This is what I use on old decals, don't even take a chance on them disintegrating. just automatically use it.

MICRO LIQUID DECAL FILM Ml-12　

1 oz. bottle　

Everyone should have Micro Liquid Decal Film on hand who models and uses decals,　

especially if you have been modeling for some time? The typical decal scrap box is not the best　

place to store the decals. Exposure to air, sunlight, moisture, great swings in　

temperature/humidity or general abuse, decals can go bad. Micro Liquid Decal Film solves all　

the problems you may have encountered putting on thin stripes that have broken apart due to　

being too brittle? Micro Liquid Decal Film restores old decals in most cases, and allows the　

modeler the ability to use old stock. Of course if you have already placed them in water it is too　

late. So, if you have some old decals you really have to use, coat them with Micro Liquid Decal　

Film to be sure? If you find any indication that you might have a problem, don't take a chance,　

you can solve the problem on the spot. Simply take a small brush and coat the image on the　

decal with a thin coat you want to use. Allow drying for 30 minutes and apply the decal as usual.　

But that