Is ERR AC Commander a good fix

Gosh, I don't know where the "tons of problems" come from.  I've installed probably at least a hundred Cruise Commanders, and I've had very few issues with them.  Remember, when you go looking for problems, you'll find them.  How many people install stuff like this, never have any issues, and also never post about the experience.

I'm confused, can you tell us why you are considering the Cruise Commander?  Is the locomotive having a problem?  Remember, a clear statement of what the issue is makes a very good start.

I am trying to run this loco with a cab 1 on a layout with every section of fast track connected to a bus line and I cannot get it to run at less than warp speed with out tweeking the speed every second or so. The track doesn't need cleaning it is spotless as are the drivers and pickups. I wanted to use this loco in an OPS environment at fairly slow speeds. From your reply I think I should be looking elsewhere for the cause of the problem.?

First off, Odyssey is NOT the ERR Cruise Commander, let's get that out of the way!

If your Odyssey locomotive is taking off at warp speed, first thing to check is the magnet ring on the flywheel.  Those are a very common failure item, I regularly replace them.

Can this loco run half as good as my 080 with odyssey with the cruise commander professionally installed?

The frame motor loco is the one that won't run, the odyssey loco is super great.

I've had several ERR Cruise Commander added to conventional engines that have jack-rabbit starts and only run at excess speeds. They run great. If you like the engine and looks, upgrades are worth doing. OTOH, if you aren't wedded to the engine or set, you can buy a LionChief Plus traditional Berk with Bluetooth for not much more than the cost of the ERR components and labor to install (if you aren't doing yourself).  That'll give you better speed control. I believe the LC+ Berk has the same body style as the one with your set.

Is this your set Blayne? : Berkshire Freight Set

If so your S.O.L. That Berkshire is a Pullmor powered loco. This is an postwar style motor with poor low speed performance. ERR will not work with it .

It will NEVER run anywhere near as good as a Lionel 0-8-0 with odyssey speed control.

I agree with Ricko; no cruise available for an AC motor; believe you can set the stall speed to get smoother starts; should be explained on pg 20 of the owner's manual (reading it is a sign of weakness).  Another thing is AC motors take a while (2-3 hours) of running to get smooth if not more.  Patience is required; good luck; Falcon70

Ricko, I think SOL is spot on. I think I try it under the tree with a transformer. Raising 4 daughters, I'm not is love with the Berkshire and I have other LC engines that run super smooth. and I get extremely good prices on new from the Lionel store in Concord NC . I know they have some transitional diesel's for a couple hundred now and probably cheaper after xmas that will give me electro couplers on both ends for my OPS. Thanks to everyone. Merry Christmas    Blayne

Obviously, as others have said, you do NOT have cruise control with the AC motor, so the ERR Cruise Commander doesn't belong in this conversation.  If you have any ERR system installed, it's the AC Commander.  It's a good system, but it does NOT feature cruise control as that's not possible with the current generation AC motors.

Blayne, are you sure that your 736 is not a conventional loco and you are trying to run it in TMCC ?   Just something in this thread that does not add up.  I have installed ERR AC Commanders and Cruise Commanders and though AC commander locos will not hold a steady speed up hill and down hill, as Cruise Commanders will, they do run quiet a bit better than before the AC Commander was installed. Pullmor motored locos with AC Commanders installed will throttle down to about 1/3 the speed as the same loco when run in conventional transformer mode.          j

I agree with Johnacton with the AC Commander.  Although it is not possible  to have cruise with it, and an AC motor, the improvement in smooth operation is easily noticeable.   Have also installed the Cruise Commander, DC cans, and never had any issue with constant speed with any consist around my layout.  Check for other issues/problems with the Berk or be certain it is set-up with correct code.

Jesse   TCA

I guess I caused the confusion. The loco in question indeed has a Pullmor motor. It operated either transformer or TMCC. I started the conversation because when I looked at that the ERR website the Cruise Commander was the only product that Mentioned TMCC. I obviously picked the wrong product. Can we reset the conversation. Is there any ERR product that will make this loco run any smother at slower speeds. Like I said before Lionel reps choose their words very carefully when I asked them if anything would help. 

In my thread on Improving the Lionel Phantom Locomotive, I replaced the LCRU2 with the AC Commander.  The difference in low speed performance was significant.  It's hard to say how much of the improvement was the added motor and how much was the AC Commander, but the Phantom set is now a very sweet runner.

The bottom line is, unless someone has done that particular locomotive, or one with the same configuration, it's difficult to quantify how much difference there will be.

187175 posted:

I guess I caused the confusion. The loco in question indeed has a Pullmor motor. It operated either transformer or TMCC. I started the conversation because when I looked at that the ERR website the Cruise Commander was the only product that Mentioned TMCC. I obviously picked the wrong product. Can we reset the conversation. Is there any ERR product that will make this loco run any smother at slower speeds. Like I said before Lionel reps choose their words very carefully when I asked them if anything would help. 

You could always start by re-titling the thread (edit your first post to do so).  The title it has is not valid, as discussed above.

People may be more willing to read/respond once the real issue is defined there rather than negatively describing a product that is not even what you have.

ERR product is probably not a crap shoot, but accurate thread titles may be.

Has anyone done the AC Commander convewrsion on this particular loco?

187175 posted:

I guess I caused the confusion. The loco in question indeed has a Pullmor motor. It operated either transformer or TMCC. I started the conversation because when I looked at that the ERR website the Cruise Commander was the only product that Mentioned TMCC. I obviously picked the wrong product. Can we reset the conversation. Is there any ERR product that will make this loco run any smother at slower speeds. Like I said before Lionel reps choose their words very carefully when I asked them if anything would help. 

Blayne,  What ERR or "other"  TMCC boards are in the loco now ?  It would be a big help if you could remove the loco and tender body and make photos of what is already installed.   If you already have an AC Commander in the loco you will not improve upon what you already have other than a thorough clean and tune of the running gear.    Remember that Lionel Pullmor motors are three pole motors and that is the governing issue. Regardless of the control system a three pole motor is never going to run as smooth at low speeds as a five or seven pole motor. The twin motored diesels with Pullmor motors will start and run better at low speeds than single motored locos. Add to the three pole vs 5~7 pole discussion the fact that most DC can motored locos have flywheels to smooth low speed performance and Pullmor motors do not have flywheels then the fact that they are as smooth as they are is the surprise.                       j

No ERR  now The loco is Mint Lionel . I opened the seals and no changes have been made. The loco will will run on transformer or TMCC Cab 1. This is 1st generation TMCC. Lionel people asked me the question. Why do you think we went to can motor so quick? Well the obvious answer is that the original didn't run well.

JohnActon posted:

187175 posted:

I guess I caused the confusion. The loco in question indeed has a Pullmor motor. It operated either transformer or TMCC. I started the conversation because when I looked at that the ERR website the Cruise Commander was the only product that Mentioned TMCC. I obviously picked the wrong product. Can we reset the conversation. Is there any ERR product that will make this loco run any smother at slower speeds. Like I said before Lionel reps choose their words very carefully when I asked them if anything would help. 

Blayne,  What ERR boards are in the loco now ?  It would be a big help if you could remove the loco and tender body and make photos of what is already installed.          j

John, I don’t think he has any ERR in there at the moment, if he has the set that Ricko pointed out earlier, this is just a simple TMCC set up on a Pullmor.........

if the OP is absolutely in love with the locomotive, the only option to get cruise capability would be to swap out the Pullmor AC motor and go can motor with ERR cruise commander....or, if he does do the can motor swap, and the ACDR is modular, he could do an M swap and save a few pesos...........Pat

Is this loco an original POST WAR 736 ?

Get a can motor conversion from Timko and pick up a Cruise commander and be done with the Pullmore. I swapped over my 4-8-4 and it’s a much better performing engine now. It had a similar electronics set up to what you have command and motor wise.

This engine and set was produced around 08. I would assume there was a REAL POST War version in the 50's or so

harmonyards posted:

JohnActon posted:

187175 posted:

I guess I caused the confusion. The loco in question indeed has a Pullmor motor. It operated either transformer or TMCC. I started the conversation because when I looked at that the ERR website the Cruise Commander was the only product that Mentioned TMCC. I obviously picked the wrong product. Can we reset the conversation. Is there any ERR product that will make this loco run any smother at slower speeds. Like I said before Lionel reps choose their words very carefully when I asked them if anything would help. 

Blayne,  What ERR boards are in the loco now ?  It would be a big help if you could remove the loco and tender body and make photos of what is already installed.          j

John, I don’t think he has any ERR in there at the moment, if he has the set that Ricko pointed out earlier, this is just a simple TMCC set up on a Pullmor.........

if the OP is absolutely in love with the locomotive, the only option to get cruise capability would be to swap out the Pullmor AC motor and go can motor with ERR cruise commander....or, if he does do the can motor swap, and the ACDR is modular, he could do an M swap and save a few pesos...........Pat

Pat the 2289WS set was a postwar Super O set I am not convinced we are doing anything more that making Wild Axe guesses till he makes photos of what's inside his 736. When TMCC was new I added LCRUs and LCRU2s to my postwar locos and at the time it was a big improvement over conventional transformer control. I guess that is the case here but till I see photos of what's inside this loco I give up.          j

This is just an attempt to clarify, but I don't pretend to be an expert. This has been a most confusing post, primarily because the OP was very unclear in describing his engine, what his issue is, and was also confused in his terminology. I'm just restating some of what others have noted, including GunRunnerJohn, who has most helpfully offered similar information here as well as many times in the past. At the bottom is the description of the OP's engine, taken from Lionel's description as stated in their 2007 Vol. 2 catalog, when the set was offered, which description should straighten out much of the speculation stated about the engine.

The engine is an updated version of the Postwar Berkshire 736 (completely updated, really, because Lionel even remade the mold a number of years ago). The engine includes the excellent RailSounds 5 sound system, and has a Pullmor AC motor equipped with TMCC. Nothing unusual there. It's the same setup Lionel used for its engines for years, diesel as well as steam, starting in the mid 90s. The RailSounds 5 sound system was the last and most advanced RailSounds system, used just before Legacy was introduced.

AC motors do not have, nor will they accept, any add-on cruise control system. They can, however, be equipped with the ERR AC Commander, which will significantly improve the engine's  performance, including low speed operation. In addition to this, as is well known, AC Pullmor motors run best after they have been broken in with a number of hours of running. The more the better. Older Pullmors with significant hours can run extremely well and very smoothly.

Just my opinion, but probably the best bet for the OP is to add an ERR AC Commander to his engine, and run it awhile. Another option is to sell the engine and find a LionChief Plus Berkshire. These have DC motors and come equipped with a cruise control system, and which in all likelihood will run as well as the Odyssey-equipped 0-8-0 he mentions (although doesn't describe), if not better.

2289WS Berkshire Freight set

"Celebrate the 50th anniversary of the first Lionel set 'to make the run' on the super-realistic Super O track system! Originally released in 1957, this special set is highlighted by a #736 Berkshire equipped with a mighty Pullmor motor, an eight-wheel drive system, and the exclusive gripping power of Magne-Traction. This '14-wheel monarch of the rails' is updated to include the TrainMaster Command Control system and the RailSounds sounds system."  

LOCOMOTIVE FEATURES:

• TrainMaster Command Control equipped - able to run in Command Control Mode or in Conventional Transformer Control Mode
• Powerful Pullmor motor
• Wireless Tether connection between locomotive and tender
• Operating Headlight
• Die-cast metal locomotive body, frame and trucks on locomotive
• ElectroCoupler on rear of tender
• Magne-Traction track gripping system
• Fan-driven smoke unit
• Die-cast metal tender body and six wheel trucks

RAILSOUNDS 5.0 SOUND SYSTEM WITH CUSTOM RECORDED EFFECTS, INCLUDING:

• Multi-part CrewTalk dialog and TowerCom announcements to create realistic operating scenarios–from pulling out of the yard to initiating an emergency stop, in both conventional and Command Control environments
• Realistic operator-controlled effects, including the water injector, activated by the CAB-1 Remote Controller
• DynaChuff synchronized chuffing that shifts through 15 levels of intensity as the locomotive gains speed
• Simulate the locomotive running light or battling against a heavy load by manually adjusting the DynaChuff intensity with CAB-1 commands
• MultiWhistle effect simulates blows at different steam pressures, long and short attacks, and even extra quilling with each press of the whistle button
• Independently adjustable volume control–use the CAB-1 Remote Controller to lower the level of background effects such as chuffing, while keeping operator-controlled effects such as the whistle at full volume