Just interested in what you guys think...Lionel cheapened the 2022 catalogs this year to essentially flyers, citing what they said was "a shortage of paper due to covid-related supply chain issues."
So what do you think? Is this a nice segue to go totally digital to save more money in 2023 or do you actually think they will go back to printing a decent catalog?
Given all the issues they're having these days, I'm not holding my breath...
--Nick N.
Raleigh, NC
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@PiedmontNick posted:Just interested in what you guys think...Lionel cheapened the 2022 catalogs this year to essentially flyers, citing what they said was "a shortage of paper due to covid-related supply chain issues."
So what do you think? Is this a nice segue to go totally digital to save more money in 2023 or do you actually think they will go back to printing a decent catalog?
Nick,
I hear ya, but ...
I'm surprised how many posts within the OGR forum are related to or derived from conspiracy theories. Then again isn't the entire internet full of them?
How does that observation apply here?: I don't think anyone here can answer your question with more than a gross swag -- pure speculation.
Is there any value at all in such responses?
Maybe we should ask Lionel instead?
Mike
https://ogrforum.com/...5#168107102161496065
Hey Mike @Mellow Hudson Mike
I would say the opposite. This post is a great example of why this Forum is an invaluable resource and is a great place to avoid all the "conspiracy" out there on the dark web.
The quote in my post IS direct from Lionel and they have been mum since...
I opened my query up to the members of this forum because as we've seen in other posts this season many of them HAVE in fact had that face to face with Lionel (TrainFest, Concord Open House, Concord Mills Store, etc.) and likely do have some more insight that would be most helpful to the rest of us.
Such is the beauty and utility of this space.
--Nick
I don't know what Lionel will do, but I hope they'll return to printing the entire catalog, not just the O scale engines and rolling stock. I realize that paper availability and cost have been issues--although they've eased somewhat--but the lack of a complete hard-copy catalog has definitely reduced my Lionel purchases. I'm just not aware of what they're offering outside of the items in the mini print catalog.
It's not that I'm afraid of tech and doing things online. My layout fully integrates LCS and apps. But I'm not into browsing product catalogs (or reading magazines, for that matter) online. I used to keep the current Lionel Big Book catalog next to my easy chair and would pick it up periodically. I knew what Lionel was offering, and, as my interests and needs evolved throughout the year, I wound up pulling the trigger on various items. Not so this year...
@PiedmontNick posted:Just interested in what you guys think...Lionel cheapened the 2022 catalogs this year to essentially flyers, citing what they said was "a shortage of paper due to covid-related supply chain issues."
So what do you think? Is this a nice segue to go totally digital to save more money in 2023 or do you actually think they will go back to printing a decent catalog?
Given all the issues they're having these days, I'm not holding my breath...
--Nick N.
Raleigh, NC
I prefer the printed version for reading and also because that's what I'll expect the product color to be. Online digital versions rely on the device for color rendering.
@PiedmontNick posted:Just interested in what you guys think...Lionel cheapened the 2022 catalogs this year to essentially flyers, citing what they said was "a shortage of paper due to covid-related supply chain issues."
So what do you think? Is this a nice segue to go totally digital to save more money in 2023 or do you actually think they will go back to printing a decent catalog?
Given all the issues they're having these days, I'm not holding my breath...
--Nick N.
Raleigh, NC
I see where Mike can interpret your post as he did. This statement (in bold and italics) alone implies that Lionel was lying and this was simply a cost savings move and not what Lionel said it was when in fact at the time there were issues with paper and printing supplies.
In reality Lionel would be dumb to ever put out a large catalog again. I think the balance between a catalog with premier products and online the rest is a smart move. Most folks wanting to buy a starter set and basics will be doing online searches IMO. Hobbyist will still want a catalog and they tend to look and purchase above the entry level.
I agree the better folks to ask are at Lionel TalkToUs@Lionel.com and not here or at least tag @Conrail6358 Ryan Kunkle and see if he'll at least let us know what is planned. Why is it I get the impression that a lot of folks think Lionel employees sit in a room discussing how they can mess with the OGR guys and train hobbyist next?
I like the printed catalogs.
The catalogs are a part of Lionel's heritage for generations and are a cherished tradition which should not be minimized or obliterated by on line formats.
If companies elect to stop printing catalogs displaying all of their products, and stop attending various trade shows, and other tangible and personal means of communication then we all miss out.
These are my opinions................
@MartyE posted:I see where Mike can interpret your post as he did. This statement (in bold and italics) alone implies that Lionel was lying and this was simply a cost savings move and not what Lionel said it was when in fact at the time there were issues with paper and printing supplies.
In reality Lionel would be dumb to ever put out a large catalog again. I think the balance between a catalog with premier products and online the rest is a smart move. Most folks wanting to buy a starter set and basics will be doing online searches IMO. Hobbyist will still want a catalog and they tend to look and purchase above the entry level.
I agree the better folks to ask are at Lionel TalkToUs@Lionel.com and not here or at least tag @Conrail6358 Ryan Kunkle and see if he'll at least let us know what is planned. Why is it I get the impression that a lot of folks think Lionel employees sit in a room discussing how they can mess with the OGR guys and train hobbyist next?
The statement cites Lionel's response which we take at face value given the Covid-related issues at the time as well as Lionel's recent history of cost-cutting since reorganizing under bankruptcy just over a decade ago, decreasing warranty and product support has cost the hobby greatly. We are all partly to blame in that.
During covid, Lionel moved manufacturing from Chinese factories still under severe lockdown to Vietnam where workers have had little to no experience in manufacturing trains. A plethora of issues from Forum users with new products since the 2021 Vol. 1 catalog was released can be found by doing a quick search of this forum.
Encouragingly, MTH and Atlas are open and forthcoming about any issues we may have, even responding openly on this and other public venues. Lionel has much work to be done in terms of rebuilding the brand, simply modifying an old tooling while increasing costs due to inflation only gets you so far.
As my original post says, Lionel has been less than transparent about how product will be announced going forward. Hence why I put feelers out about folks who may have had an opportunity to confront them in person.
I believe in community accountability, it's the glue that bonds commitment to results.
--Nick N.
Raleigh, NC
I never bought the paper shortage excuse. Our managed print service reported our companies paper usage stats in all of our printers & copiers for the last year and I'm pretty sure that number far exceeds the what used for the both 2022 and 2021 catalogs runs. Getting paper wasn't the problem, the inflated cost is what we took note of.
I think it was just a cost cutting measure. I receive enough catalogs and print mailings, I prefer digital. It takes up less space in my house and I can look it anywhere I want on my phone, tablet or laptop.
Wow. This thread is a good example of why you don't see me posting here much anymore.
"Lionel cheapened the 2022 catalogs this year to essentially flyers, citing what they said was 'a shortage of paper due to covid-related supply chain issues.'
"During covid, Lionel moved manufacturing from Chinese factories still under severe lockdown to Vietnam where workers have had little to no experience in manufacturing trains.
"I never bought the paper shortage excuse."
In what may be my final words here for some time to come, let me state my case on one thing. While I normally speak here as a representative of the brand, a position I'm proud to take, I stand behind every word I've ever posted as truth both professionally and personally. There are times when we have to hold back some information and keep some things private. And there are times when plans will change after information is made public and we have to correct ourselves later. Life's uncertainty is one of the main reasons we don't say more than we do. But what we, I, state is never intentionally false nor misleading information.
The cause for the reduction in the print catalog was absolutely due to untenable paper resources at our printer and every other option we had at the time. Revamping to a split digital / print option actually required a lot of last minute work by several teams in this company. Our silver lining is that it has given us some insight into the correlation between print advertising and sales. Obviously, that's proprietary and I'm not going to be sharing it here.
Lionel made no secrets in exploring manufacturing options in other countries either. Contrary to wikipedia posts by some expert on our history, the majority of our manufacturing remains in multiple factories in China as well as partners in Korea, Germany and elsewhere. The Vietnam factory project began more than a year before Covid was ever a thing and it was instituted with one of our existing partner factories who had and still have an established track record of making solid product as we looked to expand capacity and maintain costing to the best means possible. Have there been product issues? Absolutely. And we continue to work with all of our partners every time new issues arise. Overall, our return rate on product is as low as it has been in my 10 years with the company. That isn't offered to dismiss the actual problems, only to suggest that the magnitude of the issues may not be fully apparent through what you find online here or elsewhere.
There are lots of valid opinions on whether or not you like a product, catalog or the color orange. And we do know that whatever we do, there will always be some who would prefer something different. That's good and healthy. Whether it's the catalog, or production or any of the many questions asked here daily, you can all choose to accept my comments or your other sources as you wish. There are opinions and facts. I usually find it best to stay out of these things as facts seldom matter when opinions are passionate. However as I found this thread starting to verge on the questioning of my integrity, not just this brands, I felt it was time to speak my truth. Perhaps that is soft skin on my part, but I'm one of those old school guys brought up to believe that your word was the most important thing you own.
No, I did not answer the OP's question about the January catalog, and I'm not going to. That is information which we do not, for many reasons, want or need to discuss openly at this time. It's just one more of those things I can't tell you.
Now that this is off of my chest I'm going to get back to working on the next next catalog and wish you all a happy Thanksgiving and holiday season.
I never really understood why y’all get so flustered over a catalog, ……Lionel or MTH, ….I tried like heck to get the catalog to go down my tracks, with no avail,….so I ain’t missing much, ….nor is the other 90 some odd percent of folks, ….if it goes on-line so be it,…funny how the ones pecking away at a keyboard or device cry about a paper catalog, ……some of y’all cry just to hear yourselves crying!!….no wonder Ryan says adios amigos…..I can’t say that I blame him one bit!!
Pat
@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:Nick,
I hear ya, but ...
I'm surprised how many posts within the OGR forum are related to or derived from conspiracy theories. Then again isn't the entire internet full of them?
How does that observation apply here?: I don't think anyone here can answer your question with more than a gross swag -- pure speculation.
Is there any value at all in such responses?
Maybe we should ask Lionel instead?
Mike
It's been that way since Rich secretly hired Jimmy Hoffa as publisher. Yes, Allan is just a figure head. That's the real reason they have been skipping York.
Scott Smith
Questioning the integrity and transparency of industry members is the sure route to hearing nothing at all from them. Thanks for that, conspiracy theory, brand antagonist hobbyists. Lionel has been the subject of alien possession, demonic possession and capitalist greed accusations for about 120 years. Why should it stop now, when the tradition is so strong? 
Thanks to Ryan, Dave and their predecessors for trying to promote their products and the hobby. I'll wait to listen to your comments on various on-line/podcast sources where you don't have to respond to the adversarial, fevered imaginations of some, and related fanboy/fangirl nonsense.
WOW, let's see if we can alienate all the manufacturers in this one thread! Who shall we start on next? 
I'm glad that Ryan saw fit to post, it's a shame he had to waste his time on something like this. 
@Conrail6358 posted:Wow. This thread is a good example of why you don't see me posting here much anymore.
"Lionel cheapened the 2022 catalogs this year to essentially flyers, citing what they said was 'a shortage of paper due to covid-related supply chain issues.'
"During covid, Lionel moved manufacturing from Chinese factories still under severe lockdown to Vietnam where workers have had little to no experience in manufacturing trains.
"I never bought the paper shortage excuse."
In what may be my final words here for some time to come, let me state my case on one thing. While I normally speak here as a representative of the brand, a position I'm proud to take, I stand behind every word I've ever posted as truth both professionally and personally. There are times when we have to hold back some information and keep some things private. And there are times when plans will change after information is made public and we have to correct ourselves later. Life's uncertainty is one of the main reasons we don't say more than we do. But what we, I, state is never intentionally false nor misleading information.
The cause for the reduction in the print catalog was absolutely due to untenable paper resources at our printer and every other option we had at the time. Revamping to a split digital / print option actually required a lot of last minute work by several teams in this company. Our silver lining is that it has given us some insight into the correlation between print advertising and sales. Obviously, that's proprietary and I'm not going to be sharing it here.
Lionel made no secrets in exploring manufacturing options in other countries either. Contrary to wikipedia posts by some expert on our history, the majority of our manufacturing remains in multiple factories in China as well as partners in Korea, Germany and elsewhere. The Vietnam factory project began more than a year before Covid was ever a thing and it was instituted with one of our existing partner factories who had and still have an established track record of making solid product as we looked to expand capacity and maintain costing to the best means possible. Have there been product issues? Absolutely. And we continue to work with all of our partners every time new issues arise. Overall, our return rate on product is as low as it has been in my 10 years with the company. That isn't offered to dismiss the actual problems, only to suggest that the magnitude of the issues may not be fully apparent through what you find online here or elsewhere.
There are lots of valid opinions on whether or not you like a product, catalog or the color orange. And we do know that whatever we do, there will always be some who would prefer something different. That's good and healthy. Whether it's the catalog, or production or any of the many questions asked here daily, you can all choose to accept my comments or your other sources as you wish. There are opinions and facts. I usually find it best to stay out of these things as facts seldom matter when opinions are passionate. However as I found this thread starting to verge on the questioning of my integrity, not just this brands, I felt it was time to speak my truth. Perhaps that is soft skin on my part, but I'm one of those old school guys brought up to believe that your word was the most important thing you own.
No, I did not answer the OP's question about the January catalog, and I'm not going to. That is information which we do not, for many reasons, want or need to discuss openly at this time. It's just one more of those things I can't tell you.
Now that this is off of my chest I'm going to get back to working on the next next catalog and wish you all a happy Thanksgiving and holiday season.
Happy Thanksgiving Ryan to you and your family! To answer the first few questions without too much of a rehash, I appreciate receiving a paper catalog no matter how you select to print it. I used a combination of print and online catalogs to order from.
From a customer side, my 2 cents doesn't matter much, but every and I mean EVERY item I received from the Vietnam factories were complete products and not a single one had a broken part. Very impressed with their work.
It's rare to receive positive feedback but thank you to you and your team for all of your efforts in producing nice products!
@PiedmontNick posted:The statement cites Lionel's response which we take at face value given the Covid-related issues at the time as well as Lionel's recent history of cost-cutting since reorganizing under bankruptcy just over a decade ago, decreasing warranty and product support has cost the hobby greatly. We are all partly to blame in that.
During covid, Lionel moved manufacturing from Chinese factories still under severe lockdown to Vietnam where workers have had little to no experience in manufacturing trains. A plethora of issues from Forum users with new products since the 2021 Vol. 1 catalog was released can be found by doing a quick search of this forum.
Encouragingly, MTH and Atlas are open and forthcoming about any issues we may have, even responding openly on this and other public venues. Lionel has much work to be done in terms of rebuilding the brand, simply modifying an old tooling while increasing costs due to inflation only gets you so far.
As my original post says, Lionel has been less than transparent about how product will be announced going forward. Hence why I put feelers out about folks who may have had an opportunity to confront them in person.
I believe in community accountability, it's the glue that bonds commitment to results.
--Nick N.
Raleigh, NC
So many falsehoods in this post.
Then you use the opportunity to steer way off the topic of catalogs to get your digs in at Lionel.
I am closing this topic BECAUSE of the number of alerts we are getting and frankly we would like to enjoy spending time with our families and giving Thanks for all that we have. One thing I can contribute to the print side of the issue: Printing costs have gone up double digit both last year and this year....for us it has gone up nearly 30%! It is much less costly to offer digital alternatives because to be perfectly honest, if we were to pass on the true costs to our subscribers so that we made a real profit on print subscriptions, folks would be very unhappy with what a yearly subscription would cost them. AND....yes, there has been and still is a shortage of paper. Lionel and many others are likely looking at what all of this means to the bottom line.
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