17 megawatts?

@CALNNC posted:

An experiment was done with 3 vehicles, gas, propane and hydrogen powered.  While it did not simulate a vehicular wreck, the point was being made about the volatility of each fuel.  A  high powered rifle was used to fire a bullet into the gas tanks of each.  Gasoline dribbled out of the hole.  Propane spayed out at high pressure, but did not ignite.  The hydrogen vehicle blew up like a nuclear detonation, complete with mini mushroom cloud.  Hydrogen is a very good fuel, and a lot of it around, but seems it will solve any rescue efforts on vehicle wreck survivors, beyond a broom and dustpan.  Safe storage in a motor vehicle has to be worked out first.

The most common fuel used for fuel cells currently is natural gas. Cheap, clean, and plentiful. The FEC uses LNG to run a special set of ES-44's.

A fully battery powered heavy-haul train operating over distances typical of contemporary Class I North American railroading is neither practical nor contemplated by anything serious that I've read.  That said, hybrid use of diesel-electric and battery-electric locomotive use appears far more practical.  The purpose of the battery-powered electric locomotive is to increase tractive effort on upgrades, lowering the number of diesel prime-movers needed to haul the train.  It gets recharged on downgrades by gravity and on flats by loading the diesel-electric units.  Dynamic braking in the battery unit isn't wasted into heat, unlike with the diesel-electric units.  The net diesel fuel consumption and diesel pollution is reduced by an amount that may be significant at scale.  But if the road is essentially flat, there's probably limited, if any, advantage to adding battery-powered units.

Technology is seldom all-or-nothing.

@CALNNC posted:

An experiment was done with 3 vehicles, gas, propane and hydrogen powered.  While it did not simulate a vehicular wreck, the point was being made about the volatility of each fuel.  A  high powered rifle was used to fire a bullet into the gas tanks of each.  Gasoline dribbled out of the hole.  Propane spayed out at high pressure, but did not ignite.  The hydrogen vehicle blew up like a nuclear detonation, complete with mini mushroom cloud.  Hydrogen is a very good fuel, and a lot of it around, but seems it will solve any rescue efforts on vehicle wreck survivors, beyond a broom and dustpan.  Safe storage in a motor vehicle has to be worked out first.

When you see a demo, be careful about who is doing the demo. Edison to disuade use of Tesla's AC vs. his DC electrocuted pets.  Hydrogen storage tanks were developed in the 1970's that hold hydrogen safely.  In a safety demonstration the national guard shot tracer bullets through the "gas tank' for a hydrogen car.  No explosion, no fire.    The tanks were even used in postal vehicles. 

While we are speculating about the possibility of operating battery-powered freight locomotives, China and India are building new coal-fired generating plants, basically vitiating any global environmental benefits that could accrue.

AMAZING what one can learn on this forum!!!!

Doesn't WABCO (based in Pittsburgh) have a working battery powered train?  I'm almost certain that I read that it does

walt

@walt rapp posted:

Doesn't WABCO (based in Pittsburgh) have a working battery powered train?  I'm almost certain that I read that it does

I don't see a ton of these plying the rails, so I don't know if this is mostly a corporate feel-good exercise or a serious product.

Wabtec FLXdrive Locomotive

A friend of mine is a higher-up at this company that is working on electric transportation by rail without the necessity of a separate loco: https://moveparallel.com/

The idea basically utilizes one containerized car at a time, each individually powered by battery, which can be lashed up into a larger "platoon" consist. I think this is designed more for yard operations and short haul point-to-point from yard to customer, rather than long haul. Interesting idea.

CALNNCOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

@dkdkrd posted:

I think they're exploring hydrogen fuel cells, too. (That'll be spectacular at a RR Xing event!...remember the Hindenburg!)

An experiment was done with 3 vehicles, gas, propane and hydrogen powered.  While it did not simulate a vehicular wreck, the point was being made about the volatility of each fuel.  A  high powered rifle was used to fire a bullet into the gas tanks of each.  Gasoline dribbled out of the hole.  Propane spayed out at high pressure, but did not ignite.  The hydrogen vehicle blew up like a nuclear detonation, complete with mini mushroom cloud.  Hydrogen is a very good fuel, and a lot of it around, but seems it will solve any rescue efforts on vehicle wreck survivors, beyond a broom and dustpan.  Safe storage in a motor vehicle has to be worked out first.

@VHubbard posted:

When you see a demo, be careful about who is doing the demo.  Hydrogen storage tanks were developed in the 1970's that hold hydrogen safely.  In a safety demonstration the national guard shot tracer bullets through the "gas tank' for a hydrogen car.  No explosion, no fire.    The tanks were even used in postal vehicles.

Hydrogen can be safely used. It may render battery powered engine discussions moot. Hydrogen powered locomotives have been developed and are being tested, with the leader being Canadian Pacific/KCS. See below:

https://www.railwayage.com/mec...ve-program-advances/

https://www.trains.com/trn/new...ves-doom-the-diesel/

(Someone should produce a model of these hydrogen powered demonstrators!)

@breezinup posted:

Hydrogen can be safely used. It may render battery powered engine discussions moot. Hydrogen powered locomotives have been developed and are being tested, with the leader being Canadian Pacific/KCS. See below:

https://www.railwayage.com/mec...ve-program-advances/

https://www.trains.com/trn/new...ves-doom-the-diesel/

(Someone should produce a model of these hydrogen powered demonstrators!)

The real question is should be be using hydrogen?  Until there's a cost effective and non-polluting method of generating hydrogen, what's the point?  There are countless sites that all say the same thing, the cost of production is prohibitive.