I have three old TMCC engines from the first two catalogs of Lionel TMCC releases... both used to run great in command control. They all sat in the box for over a decade and upon first start up they act like conventional engines. No response at all to TMCC environment. Yes, my other modern TMCC locos still run just fine in command mode, it's not my set up.
What has happened to these old fellas, and what came i do? Is there a reset?
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Anything that sits that long should be reprogrammed.
Marty Fitzhenry posted:Anything that sits that long should be reprogrammed.
How do I reprogram these old engines if they won't respond to TMCC?
Here's another thread where product numbers are needed -- there are too many items that could fit your descriptions.
Having said that, 1995 products use an early LCRU1 board, and cannot be reprogrammed.
Depending on your 1996 Hudson model, some of those used an LCRU2 that can be reset/reprogrammed.
TRW
Sure the switches aren't in the program position? Are they only running one way
conventional?
PaperTRW posted:Here's another thread where product numbers are needed -- there are too many items that could fit your descriptions.
Having said that, 1995 products use a early LCRU1 board, and cannot be reprogrammed.
Depending on your 1996 Hudson model, some of those used an LCRU2 that can be reset/reprogrammed.
TRW
1995 Boston & Albany Hudson w/ TMCC - item no. 6-18042
1995 Rio Grande SD-50 w/ TMCC - item no. unknown ( i don't have the box anymore - it came out of the same 1995 catalog as the B & A hudson above, that I remember.)
1996 Wabash Hudson w/ TMCC - item no. 6-18046
shawn posted:Sure the switches aren't in the program position? Are they only running one way
conventional?
Yes, I tried the switches. Not the issue. All they do now is lock the LCRU in one direction or allow cycling of the reverse unit (typical of conventional environment). In command mode they should be either program or run, but it doesn't even sit there on the track and wait for the TMCC activation ID from the Cab-1, they immediately start rolling out like conventional locos... It's as if they all forgot they were equipped with TMCC 
Didn't the lcru1 have a socketed microprocessor? I wonder of the pins oxidized.
DdotCdot posted:PaperTRW posted:Here's another thread where product numbers are needed -- there are too many items that could fit your descriptions.
Having said that, 1995 products use an early LCRU1 board, and cannot be reprogrammed.
Depending on your 1996 Hudson model, some of those used an LCRU2 that can be reset/reprogrammed.
TRW
1995 Boston & Albany Hudson w/ TMCC - item no. 6-18042
1995 Rio Grande SD-50 w/ TMCC - item no. unknown ( i don't have the box anymore - it came out of the same 1995 catalog as the B & A hudson above, that I remember.)
1996 Wabash Hudson w/ TMCC - item no. 6-18046
All three of those locos have the LCRU1, which cannot be reset/reprogrammed.
shawn posted:Didn't the lcru1 have a socketed microprocessor? I wonder of the pins oxidized.
Yes -- good point. It's a long shot, but you might want to use a small flat-bladed screw driver to lift the microprocessor on the board and re-seat it.
The only other things I can think of that could cause "mass failures" are the tuner coils on those boards that might have drifted out of spec, but that would be rather unusual. OR, your Command Base might be out of spec. You may want to try a different command base before going much further.
TRW
PaperTRW posted:Having said that, 1995 products use an early LCRU1 board, and cannot be reprogrammed.
You can certainly set the TMCC ID, which is most likely what is being discussed.
gunrunnerjohn posted:PaperTRW posted:Having said that, 1995 products use an early LCRU1 board, and cannot be reprogrammed.
You can certainly set the TMCC ID, which is most likely what is being discussed.
My engines at one time could accept a TMCC ID and reprogramming. Now they don't even allow the program option because they are stuck in conventional no matter what I do, and because of that, they don't even "know" what the reprogram state is, nor that they ARE in a command environment. Something is wrong inside.
I'm already very aware and experience with TMCC from a user standpoint and I have more than a dozen manuals which say they can have their IDs reprogrammed.... What I am asking about is if someone knows how to crack them open and remove a chip, or do a hardware reset... Like MTH/QSI ProtoSound - you had the reset kit.
Theres no way to fix these old Lionels? That just doesn't seem right. What did train shops do when they sold these and people brought them back in for the same problem back in 1997? Has some magical know-how evaporated within 2 decades? Lol
You're working with a 20 year old board, it's probably simply died. Two decades ago the components weren't 20 years old. FWIW, I believe Lionel still sells the LCRU, but I'd upgrade to an AC commander if I had to replace it, much better performance and the same price.
gunrunnerjohn posted:You're working with a 20 year old board, it's probably simply died. Two decades ago the components weren't 20 years old. FWIW, I believe Lionel still sells the LCRU, but I'd upgrade to an AC commander if I had to replace it, much better performance and the same price.
Thanks John! Would I lose the old RailSounds if I upgraded to a commander? Afraid of that ...
You can run the serial data back to the tender for the RailSounds, the serial data is the same. You might ask that specific question and see if anyone has actually done it, I seem to recall hearing that some versions had inverted serial data. Those needed a little one transistor inverter module.
For what it's worth, the Rio Grande SD50 with Railsounds II was 6-18221. I have one... it pulls well but the sounds are a bit dated!
Jan
Make sure the antenna is not grounded, make sure the run/prog switch wires have not come detached. Do they run fine in Conventional?
As stated there was reprogramming for the more modular LCRU. If it has wires for programing, it is a hardwire issue setting it up.
I would makes sure you have a good antenna connection before throwing in the towel. G
I think I remember a article about the tuning coil,going out of wack. Might be worth a try moving the slug a bit in each direction.
Is this related to the 1998 Mohawk board issues? (18064)
Can the sound chips be swapped around? For instance - a Wabash sound chip inside the B&A tender, and vice versa? They look like the exact same engine, practically...
For the most part you can swap the sound chips, make sure to keep the set of two together. You MUST have a PLCC chip puller if you want to do this, otherwise expect to break the socket and it's curtains for the board. 
PaperTRW posted:DdotCdot posted:PaperTRW posted:Here's another thread where product numbers are needed -- there are too many items that could fit your descriptions.
Having said that, 1995 products use an early LCRU1 board, and cannot be reprogrammed.
Depending on your 1996 Hudson model, some of those used an LCRU2 that can be reset/reprogrammed.
TRW
1995 Boston & Albany Hudson w/ TMCC - item no. 6-18042
1995 Rio Grande SD-50 w/ TMCC - item no. unknown ( i don't have the box anymore - it came out of the same 1995 catalog as the B & A hudson above, that I remember.)
1996 Wabash Hudson w/ TMCC - item no. 6-18046
All three of those locos have the LCRU1, which cannot be reset/reprogrammed.
shawn posted:Didn't the lcru1 have a socketed microprocessor? I wonder of the pins oxidized.
Yes -- good point. It's a long shot, but you might want to use a small flat-bladed screw driver to lift the microprocessor on the board and re-seat it.
The only other things I can think of that could cause "mass failures" are the tuner coils on those boards that might have drifted out of spec, but that would be rather unusual. OR, your Command Base might be out of spec. You may want to try a different command base before going much further.
TRW
TO THE GENTLEMEN WHO BROUGHT THE MICROPROCESSOR TO MY ATTENTION!!!
Cheers to both!!!! That little nasty centipede of a chip was the problem all along! A decade and a half and I've finally resolved these darn engines. Wow, cheers and a round of virtual drinks all around!
Danke schön, danke schön!
Man, to hear those whistles and horn singin' again , just makes my day! Especially that Wabash whistle!
The chips on the sound board? That shouldn't have affected the running, just the sound.
gunrunnerjohn posted:The chips on the sound board? That shouldn't have affected the running, just the sound.
It was the chip on the LCRU. I abandoned the idea of switching sound files around and never opened the tenders.
Good point, it's been a while since I looked at the old LCRU, I forgot that chip was socketed. It's been a long time since they did that for the TMCC stuff. Other than OEM boards, all of the RS4 and RS5 are socketed I believe, and even the older RS boards.
Glad to hear everything worked out!
TRW
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