1999 Allan Miller Interview with Mike Wolf

This interview is very interesting especially considering the impending retirement of Mr. Wolf and the closing of MTH Electric Trains. Worth a read if you can find a copy. As the material is copyrighted, I do not have permission to quote from this article.

Allan's thoughtful questions posed to Mr. Wolf result in some very interesting replies. Not to be missed!

Perhaps Allan might share his recollection of this interview with the forum?

There appear to be four copies listed on Amazon by resellers. I hate buying books from Amazon but.......just saying. 3 used priced at 11.95.

There is also an early Views from the Underground by Lou Palumbo and a photo of Lou with Mike Wolf and two of his executives at a golf tournament in Florida.

The interview alone would be worth the $11.95! :-)

@Tinplate Art posted:

The interview alone would be worth the $11.95! :-)

There might be three copies left. Lol.

So much for Mike Wolfs dream of producing every locomotive model in O gauge.

Gee, that was as long time ago! I don't think I even have the original manuscript for that interview. My long-time pal, Tom McComas may have the text, and if he does have it and is willing to share it, I'll see if I can post it on the forum, or in the magazine, or both.

I have known Mike, Andy, and Rich dating way back to before there even was an MTH Electric Trains as we have known it in recent time. Mike's Train House--his original train shop--was located just a couple of miles from my home when I lived in nearby Laurel, MD, and I used to visit the shop several times a week on my way home from work at Greenberg Publishing Co., in Sykesville; or on evenings when Mike would host an open house at the store.

THANK YOU, Allan, for your input!

Interesting interview laced with a certain amount of understandable commercial hutzpah.

I retrieved my copy and read the interview, which was published before Lionel shifted to a business model similar to MTH's which was based on a heavy reliance on production in China. It turns out that events as they unfolded did not bear out several of Mike's prognostications. The claim that MTH and great availability of replacement parts would be around 20+ years hence is not being fulfilled. His poo-pooing of TMCC as a control system turned out to be an understandable sales impulse, premature, and wildly incorrect because TMCC (as it has evolved into Legacy) is dominant in 3-rail O gauge trains.

Train companies come and go. Accordingly, Lionel is still in business while MTH is passing into history.

With reflection.

Bob

"His poo-pooing of TMCC as a control system turned out to be an understandable sales impulse, premature, and wildly incorrect because TMCC (as it has evolved into Legacy) is dominant in 3-rail O gauge trains."

Yes, I remember that well, when I was personally becoming thoroughly disenchanted with the few PS1 locos I had.  That control and sound system from MTH/QSI left a lot to be desired.  Like simplicity and easy of use.  And command capability.

The fact that MTH finally came out with DCS in 2002 or so (PS2 was a couple of years earlier, but with no command system to operate it) suggests his trashing of TMCC in 1999 may not have been entirely sincere, since PS2 and DCS were likely already envisioned.  Coming out with command control 6 years after your competitor (TMCC in about 1996) certainly led to the TMCC/Legacy systems being dominant.

And that unpleasant business of trying to use the courts to achieve what you could not achieve in the marketplace did not win many friends in the industry and hobby. MTH's competitiveness had seriously eroded over the period of 1998-2004 for whatever constellation of reasons.

Thankfully a comparatively peaceful and friendly competition characterized the last decade or so of MTH's existence.  Lots of interesting products, settling the Union Pacific threat to model railroading (the high point of Mike Wolf's diplomacy) and no further lawsuits . 

BobB and Landsteiner: THANK YOU for your perceptive analytic comments. :-)

This interview, in my humble estimation, showcased a young (39) enthusiastic entrepreneur who had  recently succeeded in developing and producing a remarkable 400 watt UL approved state of the art transformer, the Z-4000. He was understandably proud of this landmark achievement and he had a positive outlook for the future of his company and its competitive position relative to the juggernaut of Lionel. No doubt, he made mistakes, especially some far reaching miscalculations with his Proto systems, but he also developed the best performing smoke unit in the hobby, and his love of prewar tinplate encouraged his reproduction of those classic engines, rolling stock and accessories under his "Tinplate Traditions" branding.

Yeah, I re-read my copy of the MTH P&R Guide today and found it very interesting to compare history with reality over the last 20 years.  Kudos to Allan too for such a comprehensive (and quite lengthy) interview!

As for Lou Palumbo's golf game, I wonder if Mike ever beat him in a round again. (lol)

Under Mike's leadership, MTH became a serious innovator and competitor in our hobby for several decades. We may speculate about the reasons for closing his company after a successful forty-year run, including the impact of the pandemic and China production issues, but at age 61, he was entitled to retire to Florida where he could play golf and be close to his beloved Miami Dolphins, and maybe engage his friend Lou in a golf rematch! LOL!

@Tinplate Art posted:

Under Mike's leadership, MTH became a serious innovator and competitor in our hobby for several decades. We may speculate about the reasons for closing his company after a successful forty-year run, including the impact of the pandemic and China production issues, but at age 61, he was entitled to retire to Florida where he could play golf and be close to his beloved pro football team. And maybe engage his friend Lou in a golf rematch! LOL!

I have started to reverse my thinking that the pandemic has had a negative impact on out hobby. Sure we aren’t getting any shows but the mail order is booming, track sales are through the roof as shut ins are building layouts. Lionel Legacy locomotives are hot sellers as well. Tried to find anything that came out last year on eBay or Lionel’s online store. Charles Ro stated unofficially to me that tracks sales and transformers are hot sellers. His online stock of Legacy locomotives looks a bit thin also. They are selling well.

I don’t think the pandemic had any real impact one way or another on Mile Wolf’s decision to shut down.

Also, since almost all of the top ranking leadership in MTH were longtime friends of Mike, we might rightfully assume they were adequately compensated for their many years of dedicated service. The partial acquisition of some MTH tooling and production rights by Atlas is encouraging, and maybe more such arrangements may be forthcoming to continue the support of MTH products.

I am personally grateful for my Z-4000's and my MANY Tinplate Traditions reproduction engines, rolling stock and accessories over the last twenty-five years! By the same token, I purchased nearly all the Lionel Classics line and the later Lionel produced offerings including the Hiawatha and Vanderbilt SG sets, and subsequent accessory reproductions.

I am especially grateful for both he and his team’s efforts to produce the standard tinplate (and later O) under the MTH, Lionel Classics, Tinplate Traditions and Lionel Corporation brands. These are gems and I have many of these which I really enjoy. His chutzpah and dedication to making the most of this hobby is most evident in these masterpieces. I’m glad I’m not judged by an interview from more than 20 years ago. I’m not that person anymore and I’m pretty certain Mr, Wolf isn’t either.

@WRW posted:

I am especially grateful for both he and his team’s efforts to produce the standard tinplate (and later O) under the MTH, Lionel Classics, Tinplate Traditions and Lionel Corporation brands.<snip>

I am also very glad and thankful that Mike Wolf produced the various tinplate trains made for his house brand and for Lionel, of which I own and enjoy many examples. MTH provided the needed competition to prod Lionel to up their game. Super!

The next topic is outside the realm of the 1999 interview, but regrettably, one also needs to balance the good with the not so good. Pursuing the lawsuit after Dick Maddox offered to sit down and settle the dispute like gentlemen (as the lawyers for ACG and JLC always and consistently did) did great harm to hobby. Sorry.

Respectfully,

Bob

@Allan Miller posted:

Gee, that was as long time ago! I don't think I even have the original manuscript for that interview. My long-time pal, Tom McComas may have the text, and if he does have it and is willing to share it, I'll see if I can post it on the forum, or in the magazine, or both.

I have known Mike, Andy, and Rich dating way back to before there even was an MTH Electric Trains as we have known it in recent time. Mike's Train House--his original train shop--was located just a couple of miles from my home when I lived in nearby Laurel, MD, and I used to visit the shop several times a week on my way home from work at Greenberg Publishing Co., in Sykesville; or on evenings when Mike would host an open house at the store.

Allan: I to remember that place I even picked up a Matchbox to Eastwood truck from the store letter for Mike's Train House around 1987 there about.

Lawsuits and legal wrangling aside (and who REALLY knows what actually went on behind closed doors!) MTH and Mr. Wolf will most likely be remembered for their overall positive contributions to our hobby! :-)

Well, if he stated a desire to offer a three rail model of every prototype loco, l am really sorry he did not get a heck of a whole lot closer to that goal!

Who among us has never promised or aspired to deliver more than we could at some point in our lives? The answer is NOBODY! He was just being an idealistic and brash 39 year old in that interview! LOL!

One more comment on the legal wrangling: Mike was the "David" to Lionel's "Goliath", so maybe his attorneys saw this situation differently than those of us out of the proverbial "loop". Hindsight is always flawed and judging Mike without knowing ALL the inside facts is  not fair. I should add I have great respect for Mr. Maddox and once met him at a TCA convention in Chattanooga, TN and we had a pleasant extended personal conversation. I found him knowledgeable about his products and overall, a "good guy"! :-)

@Tinplate Art posted:

One more comment on the legal wrangling: Mike was the "David" to Lionel's "Goliath", so maybe his attorneys saw this situation differently than those of us out of the proverbial "loop". Hindsight is always flawed and judging Mike without knowing ALL the inside facts is  not fair. I should add I have great respect for Mr. Maddox and once met him at a TCA convention in Chattanooga, TN and we had a pleasant extended personal conversation. I found him knowledgeable about his products and overall, a "good guy"! :-)

In the end though, I don't think the final outcome of the court case made any difference to those of us in the hobby, except that it made some lawyers wealthy.  Most of the time, I think its better to save time and money and settle.

I agree: Litigation, especially on a corporate scale, is both time consuming, expensive and possibly counter productive for all concerned! Mike may very well had gotten some "bad" advice.

@Tinplate Art posted:

I agree: Litigation, especially on a corporate scale, is both time consuming, expensive and possibly counter productive for all concerned! Mike may very well had gotten some "bad" advice.

I would think that both MTH and Lionel would have been motivated to settle if they knew it would drag out as long as it did. In the end, it made no difference since both companies produced great products during and after the court case.

TRUE! Thank you, sir,  for your reasoned analysis! :-)

@colorado hirailer posted:

Well, if he stated a desire to offer a three rail model of every prototype loco, l am really sorry he did not get a heck of a whole lot closer to that goal!

I compliment him for building the Super 381 Electric - 3-Rail Standard Gauge w/Proto-Sound 3.0 - Lionel Corp. -- Pennsylvania Railroad. This was a true Lionel prototype. Perry has one for sale and my bride almost, and I must emphasize the word almost, blessed this crazy overpriced purchase Saturday evening of  what I am told is from Mr. Wolf’s own collection. It may not clear a Hellgate Bridge, is difficult on most curves and is heck (censored) on switches. But look at this thing. It’s a beauty!

"The next topic is outside the realm of the 1999 interview, but regrettably, one also needs to balance the good with the not so good. Pursuing the lawsuit after Dick Maddox offered to sit down and settle the dispute like gentlemen (as the lawyers for ACG and JLC always and consistently did) did great harm to hobby. Sorry.

Respectfully,

Bob"

No need to be sorry, Bob.  What you have written is true.  There was considerable damage done and a rift existed in the hobby for years.  Luckily, that is all behind us.

Is it?

I hope Allan can find his original notes. I would love to read the interview. Its truly a time capsule:  "So Mr. major toy train company president, how do you see the hobby in twenty or more years." Its a must read

@Madockawando posted:

I hope Allan can find his original notes. I would love to read the interview. Its truly a time capsule:  "So Mr. major toy train company president, how do you see the hobby in twenty or more years." Its a must read

I sent an email this very afternoon to Tom McComas to see if he still has the text of that interview available in some form, and if he would be willing to have it posted here (or somewhere on our site).  I no longer have the original manuscript, which is unfortunate but not surprising because I have written probably a couple of hundred articles since that one was published, and along with several moves; several new computers; and even a major computer hard-drive crash or two, there has been an inevitable "thinning of the herd" in terms of my original submissions.

THANK YOU, Allan for your follow up! :-)

Allan, how about a new interview with Mike Wolf on his contributions and views on the future of the hobby.

Excellent suggestion.

@marxtin posted:

Allan, how about a new interview with Mike Wolf on his contributions and views on the future of the hobby.

The Exit Interview