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The back story.

The train set has been in the family since I was a kid. I can remember some 45 years ago playing with it at Christmas time, and yes, as a young boy is apt to do, taking it apart. There is one old Christmas time photo of it set up under the tree.
That largely has been its only use for the last 45 years or so. And not even every Christmas as there were many my mom did not set it up, or later myself as I was in the Army and deployed, or otherwise not at home.
So Im not a full time all out train guy, and not likely to be as interesting as it has become. I tend to get fully engrossed in my hobbies or other things I get into, and I have not the time to do that with trains... Perhaps one day when Im no longer riding, building, servicing motorcycles, brewing beer, shooting, ect..
But for now, it was and is a Christmas time tradition only.

I have what I believe to be Lionel Post war Steamer 2-4-2 Columbia #1061 heat marked in white 1061

2-4-2 Columbia #1016

The tender a single sheet steel frame, heat marked LIONEL LINES, a blue cargo box (is that the correct term?) heat marked LIONEL 6042, a Brown flat car  (is that the correct term?), no marks visible in use, but printed underneath Made in USA, The Lionel Corp, New York and a red caboose Heat marked LIONEL LINES 6171.

My research says it should have come with O27 track, and measurements indicate that is what I have. The rail ties also match those on O27 track. the Transformer is a 1010.

I have found some Internet info that calls this loco a "scout" is that an alternative name? Or is that a different design all together and just confused with the 2-4-2 Columbia #1061?
The front truck was replaced some years back by me, but when I sourced it I told them what I had, I did not ask if that was originally what the part was made for... It was an exact copy replacement part so I did not give it any thought at the time.
I have read in these forums found in a search (what led me to sign up here) that the 2-4-2 Columbia #1061 was not lighted....The plastic body has a through hole where a lens would go if there was one....Did they do that even on the non lighted 2-4-2 Columbia #1016 ?

motor light socket
And the motor is made to hold a #51 bulb.  
The motor does not have a reversing switch or if it is, its fully recessed and stuck in the plastic motor body.
motor top
I have read not to take the motor apart because getting it back together is near impossible for other than the most experienced.... I laughed and spit coffer when I read that...not that I wont head the advice, but that as a 8 year old, I had that motor apart and back together more then a few times... Perhaps the magic luck of not knowing any better is now lost and I'll destroy it if I open it up in my advanced age of 53...LOL time will tell.

So the plastic cased motor...can anyone fully ID it as a XYZ originally installed in a XYZ locomotive?
 The lighted or unlighted... can anyone say for sure if the 2-4-2 Columbia #1061 was lighted or not? and if not, was the body cast or drilled with a throw hole for a lens?
The train runs fine as it is, I've lubed the motor wick, will install a bulb when it gets here and will try and fit a lens as well. It is of course very loud... and Im fine with that, it brings back memories. I do however want to make sure its noise of the design, not parts eating themselves. 


Ive read about cleaning the contact rollers and will do that today. All the exposed gears seem to be in good condition, no missing teeth and no significant wear. 
The traction tire is a bit hardened so a replacement was ordered today.
The side rods (name taken from the #1001-2 Lionel service manual, so please correct if its the wrong name) have a non original screw retaining them to the wheel and the rod is in poor condition on this rotating part.  Im going to machine bushings from silicon bronze for this at some point. Correct screws have been ordered. I will try and find replacement side rods as well.motor left side

motor right sideside rod

I spent some time last night machining a die to reform the track ends. Seems the ham fisted assembly, use, moving, disassembly over the years had somewhat deformed many of the track tube ends where the pins fit.  Three mandrels in the tubes a press of the die reformed the tubes nicely. 

What else should I consider servicing? inspecting to give this train a long life and many Christmases ahead.

Once I have positively ID the motor the plan is to acquire spares so that my grandson (and perhaps some day grand daughter) will be able to repair as needed.

Thanks for reading and for any help you might have to the questions posed.

Erik

Attachments

Images (6)
  • 2-4-2 Columbia #1016
  • motor left side
  • motor light socket
  • motor right side
  • motor top
  • side rod
Last edited by E.Marquez
Original Post

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The 1061 Scout came different ways.  Some were 0-4-0, others 2-4-2.  No lamps or lens, although they could be fitted.  Wired for forward only, no reverse capability.  Bottom of the line sets '63 and '64.  Some with a traction tire.  1061 could be rubber stamped, missing, or a stick-on.

If you had that motor apart and back together as an eight year old I salute you.  You must pull the wheels (not easy), then press the wheels back on to the axles with good alignment (also not easy).

Johnsgg1 posted:

The 1061 Scout came different ways.  Some were 0-4-0, others 2-4-2.  No lamps or lens, although they could be fitted.  Wired for forward only, no reverse capability.  Bottom of the line sets '63 and '64.  Some with a traction tire.  1061 could be rubber stamped, missing, or a stick-on.

If you had that motor apart and back together as an eight year old I salute you.  You must pull the wheels (not easy), then press the wheels back on to the axles with good alignment (also not easy).

Thanks 
So are you saying this is a Scout then and not Columbia ? 

As for taking the motor apart and getting is back together...Who knows, I suppose as no one told be I could not do it.... I just did... 
Certainly today there would be a press jig involved and a small Arbor press I have for just such things... But I recollect a roofing hammer and some sockets used back then

Last edited by E.Marquez

Columbia refers to its 2-4-2 wheel arrangement. That’s railroad nomenclature, not a Lionel term. A 4-4-2 is an Atlantic, a 4-6-2 is a Pacific, a 4-6-4 is a Hudson, etc.

The term Scout was a marketing term for a line of inexpensive train sets that differed from Lionel’s higher quality production. While Scout sets have become collectible, they weren’t intended to be anything more than a cheaper alternative, thus the plastic steam locomotive body (versus the usual diecast metal steamer body), one-direction mechanism and no lighting.

The proper term for your open box freight car is a gondola.

E.Marquez posted:

I have read not to take the motor apart because getting it back together is near impossible for other than the most experienced.... I laughed and spit coffer when I read that...not that I wont head the advice, but that as a 8 year old, I had that motor apart and back together more then a few times... Perhaps the magic luck of not knowing any better is now lost and I'll destroy it if I open it up in my advanced age of 53...LOL time will tell.

Love it! Somehow, I am not surprised that you know how to use a lathe.

In 1948, Lionel introduced a very low priced set to try to capture the budget market. They named it the "Scout". The Scout had, for the first time, a locomotive cast in all plastic, and a plastic framed motor. It also had couplers which did not work with other Lionel products. The Scout was short-lived - maybe 3 years? - but in later years, Lionel resurrected the plastic motor, made some changes to enhance reliability, and started using it in a large number of their less-expensive sets. For that reason, collectors call this the "Scout" motor, and may refer to any locomotive with this type of motor as a "Scout".

Collectors frequently use the word "Columbia" to describe a certain boiler casting which was usually used on engines with a 2-4-2 wheel arrangement. Here is a "Columbia".

loco242a_ident

So, because your 1061 uses the same boiler casting as the original 1948 Scout, it is probably better to call it a Scout, regardless of its wheel arrangement.

Columbias had three different motor types over the years: the "scout motor" and two all-metal types. Engines with the Scout boiler only ever used the scout motor.

Olsen's Toy Train Parts has a lot of useful reference material. Here are diagrams for a 1060 (same as yours, but with a light):

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/1060.htm

And here are diagrams for a full-featured scout motor, with reverse, smoke, headlight, and magne-traction:

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/233.htm

Attachments

Images (1)
  • loco242a_ident

I collect and work on scout and scout type engines. They are a lot of fun to me. Pulling the motor apart is challenging but after you do a bunch of them its not bad. Pulling the wheels is always a little stressful, I always waiting to hear the pop of a wheel break but thankfully that has not happened yet. If it is wired right you can put a bulb in it. The nice thing with the 1061 is that it is forward only. You don't have to worry about the weird scout motor e-unit. The cool thing is though, if you have the parts (usually from a parts motor) you can put the e-unit parts in it to make the engine run back and forwards. If you have any other question feel free to ask. I love these engines. 

Jim R. posted:

Columbia refers to its 2-4-2 wheel arrangement. That’s railroad nomenclature, not a Lionel term. A 4-4-2 is an Atlantic, a 4-6-2 is a Pacific, a 4-6-4 is a Hudson, etc.

The term Scout was a marketing term for a line of inexpensive train sets that differed from Lionel’s higher quality production. While Scout sets have become collectible, they weren’t intended to be anything more than a cheaper alternative, thus the plastic steam locomotive body (versus the usual diecast metal steamer body), one-direction mechanism and no lighting.

The proper term for your open box freight car is a gondola.

Thank you, that makes completion sense and explains the other posts and forums I have been reading. 

nickaix posted:
E.Marquez posted:

I have read not to take the motor apart because getting it back together is near impossible for other than the most experienced.... I laughed and spit coffer when I read that...not that I wont head the advice, but that as a 8 year old, I had that motor apart and back together more then a few times... Perhaps the magic luck of not knowing any better is now lost and I'll destroy it if I open it up in my advanced age of 53...LOL time will tell.

Love it! Somehow, I am not surprised that you know how to use a lathe.

In 1948, Lionel introduced a very low priced set to try to capture the budget market. They named it the "Scout". The Scout had, for the first time, a locomotive cast in all plastic, and a plastic framed motor. It also had couplers which did not work with other Lionel products. The Scout was short-lived - maybe 3 years? - but in later years, Lionel resurrected the plastic motor, made some changes to enhance reliability, and started using it in a large number of their less-expensive sets. For that reason, collectors call this the "Scout" motor, and may refer to any locomotive with this type of motor as a "Scout".

Collectors frequently use the word "Columbia" to describe a certain boiler casting which was usually used on engines with a 2-4-2 wheel arrangement. Here is a "Columbia".

loco242a_ident

So, because your 1061 uses the same boiler casting as the original 1948 Scout, it is probably better to call it a Scout, regardless of its wheel arrangement.

Columbias had three different motor types over the years: the "scout motor" and two all-metal types. Engines with the Scout boiler only ever used the scout motor.

Olsen's Toy Train Parts has a lot of useful reference material. Here are diagrams for a 1060 (same as yours, but with a light):

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/1060.htm

And here are diagrams for a full-featured scout motor, with reverse, smoke, headlight, and magne-traction:

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/233.htm

Thank you for that.. Olsen's is one of the other sites I have gleaned useful info from. 

Berkshirelover726 posted:

I collect and work on scout and scout type engines. They are a lot of fun to me. Pulling the motor apart is challenging but after you do a bunch of them its not bad. Pulling the wheels is always a little stressful, I always waiting to hear the pop of a wheel break but thankfully that has not happened yet. If it is wired right you can put a bulb in it. The nice thing with the 1061 is that it is forward only. You don't have to worry about the weird scout motor e-unit. The cool thing is though, if you have the parts (usually from a parts motor) you can put the e-unit parts in it to make the engine run back and forwards. If you have any other question feel free to ask. I love these engines. 

Thanks for the response, Looking at the motor parts design, there is a "movable field" it appears in the document to be a arm that moves..... my motor, its has a part inside that is freely moving, and that part is in the same location the document indicates the "movable field" would be.. Is the non reversing Scout motor known to have a free free floating "part" inside it?

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