2015 Williams by Bachman

Link to 2015 catalog(s) downloads:

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/...talogs_brochures.php

Looks like Williams got a bit prouder.  Suggested retail for Chugginton toy locos $349.95, egad!

Pete

The Genesis is back.

By the catalog the GG1's are all gone the best of them was the scale one's and they did away with them and now the semi-scale looks like its gone also Wish I didn't sell my scale one but needed the money at the time. 

While there are a few new products, I believe that Bachmann Williams still needs to come out with more new products. For instance they only offer only one caboose type but it is the porthole which was not used on all road names. I also noticed that the MSRP's have risen significantly but the Williams street price has always been way below list. I guess my next trip to the train show will really tell the story. As the only manufacturer in the hobby with its own factories it is the price leader.  IMO, Bachmann Williams owns the conventional market but it looks like RMT is also good on price.

The catalog still shows HO pics for the "updated" GP-38 with True Blast Plus.  Still no word on when these will actually be produced.  And will they be another K-Line remake?

My favorite Williams stuff has been discontinued from production altogether, and the high (even street) prices for remaining products keep me searching in the secondary market.

The old E7 and scale GG1 are two examples of scarcity and higher pricing of some discontinued items in the secondary market.  There is presently only one set of E7 diesels listed on the auction site, and sold prices of certain roadnames of those units have been rising steadily.

the prices are nuts.  I know most people don't pay retail, but if I went & supported my LHS, they would charge full retail. Seems like a no win situation for all sides.   I'm surprised they dropped a lot of their classic engines - GG1, FM, etc.  GP9s are in the same road names as the last few years w/ fewer choices.    I would think they would offer more in the Golden Memories series too. 

Great to see the Genesis back with prime mover engine sounds!

EZ Streets keeps on growing which is great to make adding it to layouts is even more enticing.

Hello guys and gals.......

WOW, they pretty much have killed good old Williams .

Tiffany

Yep, the catalog list prices are way, way over the top. In the past most of the large dealers really discounted WBB trains big time, I wonder if that will be the same for 2015.

I think this confirms what we already knew from the Lionel catalog, that costs of production and delivery of products have gone up substantially for whatever reasons.  I'm sure this is bothering the manufacturers at least as much as it bothers us .

One could speculate that Williams's sales are perhaps only 10-20% of Lionel's volume, at most, and that accounts for the high MSRPs, even for locos without command control or high quality sound.  Whatever economies of scale Lionel can muster might not apply to Williams.  That said, a LionChief + loco at the same MSRP as a conventional Williams loco will be difficult competition to meet.

$77 for a MPC-era 40ft boxcar?  Those are about $13 on ebay.

That boxcar is from the old AMT mold from the early 50's. It's about the same size as a railKing boxcar, slightly different in length by 3/16' of an inch or so.

It's bigger all the way around than a Lionel 6464 type.

A few items by Williams that are out are; E Z Streets turnpike set, and E Z Streets switches(both L & R) in D-21 size curve. Also one or two new E Z Street vehicles.

For better prices on WBB items check out www.trainworld.com

I saved over $100.00 ordering the E Z Street set through Train World on line.

The listed MSRP prices in their online website are way too high.

Lee Fritz

I don't think WbB sells anything that was made by MPC!!!

Agreed that prices are to high for old Williams tooling that some goes back to the 1960's.

I had better hopes that Bachmann would continue the Williams legacy.

The GOOD news is there is TONS of Williams and  other brands on the used market on ebay, shows and best of all OGRforum members.  More than I'll ever need!

I dont think you will see that much discounting in the future.  Perfect example - I was looking at a Lionel coal dump car last night. Didn't matter which road name, just wanted to get one for the layout, although I was partial to Conrail.  The Conrail one just came out - cheapest I could find it was in the $50-60 range.  Older ones, of the same model were a lot cheaper, so the big cut of the MSRP may be shrinking. I didn't wind up getting the Conrail car at those prices btw. 

I for one have to wonder what the "brains" at WBB are thinking. List prices in the new catalog are out of sight (for WBB) and I just don't understand them dropping the scale GG1s. The WBB scale GG1 *was* one of the best values in O scale and one of their best locomotives. They are strong, reliable runners. Scale wise and detail wise they are "close enough' especially considering heir affordability. There are a couple of things n the new catalog that are interesting but I'll have to wait and see what the "street price" ends up being before I'll invest.

When you go to York stop by the Bachman booth and let Larry know you don't like what they did to the Williams line. 

Rob

I'm still waiting for better steam sounds.

To be fair, the new catalog does offer some over priced dummy units when Lionel and MTH are fading away on dummy units.

Bachmann in large scale ends up selling 50 off list after some time. Just wait for Trainworld to eventually have blowout sale due to poor sales.

Not many universal cabeese out there short of the Reading type which a number of roads used.

WBB is part of Kader Industries, they have their own manufacturing. Pretty sure WBB gets a pretty good deal on manufacturing from their parent company.

The single unit spine flat cars were owned by SCL Seaboard Coast Line originally in the 1970's. Then they were sold to the Chicago and North Western in the 1980's.

Andrew

I've been a fan of Williams, but I don't see much that interests me.  I can't believe that Bachmann hasn't offered basic remote controlled engines with sound and features like Lionel has with LC plus.  Let's face it, they have means to do it.

60s?  Go back even further - 1950s for the boxcar, reefer and stockcar, as well as the original F unit that Williams offered use AMT dies that were cut in the 50s for my favorite Indiana-based model train company.   

This moaning about pricing is ridiculous.

Example:

WBB Erie FAs:

MSRP $569.99

Street price (from a forum sponsor) $319.99

Inflated MSRP is just an old marketing trick. Nothing new to see here....move along.

Jonny great post!! 

Could you mention that in the innumerable threads concerning Lionel's catalog pricing???     That poor MSRP horse has been flogged to death...

6 of the operating DM&IR MISSABE side dump cars would look great as a train behind a MISSABE SD9 or RS15 locomotive.

Andrew

hello guys and gals ...........

I am GLAD I didn't sell my Williams GP-9. I just looked at the WBB 2015 catalog online and on page 14, they just have non-powered GP-9's. No powered ones ?

Tiffany

Yikes, looks like there's not much of a carcass left for the vultures to pick over.  Not a single steamer other than the 4-6-0? 

I thing that the used market , is overshadowing the new market .there are so many dealers that sell just new old stock at good prices . the current manufactures have started to realize  this, and are adjusting there out put .to survive this , and the economic down turn. there has all was been a market for high end trains in this hobby. The first scale Hudson in 1937 sold for 75.00 dollars, which was the wage for the average man for a month , and Lionel sold them. wright know most of the post on the forum , read ,looking for the best price possible, and that market is flooded. History tends to repeat itself 2000.00 for a big boy in tough economy , with limited running capacity and they sold. I couldn't afford one , so I bought from the flush used market at deflated prices .   manufactures first and foremost are in business to make money, just my 10 cents techman     

I have also been a big fan of Williams. Thay were well built and run like the dickens and reasonably priced. I was apprehensive when Bachmann bought them.   I was afraid of what we are now seeing with price increases and some of their offerings.

I do wish them well but barring any deep discounts off list I'll have to go to the secondary market for something I can afford.

Ed

The C&O GP30 is interesting.

Andrew

I wonder if the new GP38-2 will have the same handrails as the GP30 since they are showing the HO Scale models with fine handrails.

Andrew