2015 Williams by Bachman

So far, we have heard a lot about the 44-ton switcher and Bluetooth, but nothing about the cataloged GP-38.  Maybe Jack Lynch will have more to say about it at the spring TCA meet.

I'm curious as to why WBB hasn't offered the GP30 in the B & O, Pennsy, and Reading liveries.   All three roads are very popular with modelers.  

I agree that those three should be offered as well.

However it seems that WBB has dropped the ball as to what people really want.

 

Also when it was Williams they sold engines that several railroads never owned in that particular model; example would be the GP-9 & GP-38 as some railroads used the GP-7 rather then the GP-9, also GP-39-2 instead of the GP-38 like Reading Lines.

Another that WBB is doing is the SD-90's in Norfolk Southern heritage instead of the SD-70ACe diesel engines that Norfolk Southern used. Trying to sell on-hand inventory is the way I see it with Williams by Bachmann.

Along with selling only the N5c caboose in O gauge.

 

Those that I posted above could be reasons the Williams stuff don't sell as well.

I am not a rivet counter but let's try to get the model of the engine or caboose correct to the railroad.

 

Lee Fritz

Dealers can buy Bachmann for huge discounts from the inflated "list price".  Bachmann has been doing this for years.  They have now jacked up the Williams "list" prices the same way.  The new Williams catalog has less than half the product that is in my 2009 catalog.  The SD-45, U-33, EP-5, E-7, E-60P, Budd cars, GG-1, Sharks, that I have are all gone, as are most of the steamers.  Too bad.  It is all good stuff.  Never had a problem with any of them.

I like the New Genesis locos, looks like its not an AA set, just an A, but it could be a typo.

 

Don't pay attention to the high catalog prices, they have always been super high versus what you see at the LHS or at a show...same with Lionel and MTH to a lesser degree.

 

BTW, I would buy more WBB if they offered multiple road numbers on their freight locos.

 

 

HUmmm perhaps will put an order in for a new HO bluetooth engine and try it out perhaps convert to an ON30 engine to test it out!!!

 

 

The price increases are not indicative of Bachmann alone.  All manufacturer's prices have gone up as the labor prices increased in China from something like $2 an hour to $3 an hour.  Simply function of the market.  This trend is not going away.  

 

What we are seeing in the catalog is the fact that Kader got a lot of the old K-Line tooling when they purchased the factory that was making products for Atlas, Lionel and MTH at the time.  Bachmann is bringing these cars back, but at current pricing. 

 

I have seen the traditional locomotives from the Jerry Williams days fall in and out of the catalogs over the years.  Bachmann is the big boy manufacturer and knows its business model.  I am sure the traditional Williams items are not gone, but simply put on hold for a bit due to saturation in the market and the deep discounts that come with over saturation. 

 

I am pleased to see that Bachmann is moving in many directions personally.

Glad they finally came out with the 21" dia E-Z turnouts but @ $69.95 ea. I'll bash some old PW 027 switches.

Could not have said it better myself!

I really wish they would consider some of the smaller roads. Specifically Long Island RR. Heck, if Lionel can sell a ton of LIRR RTR sets.. I see no reason why Bachmann couldn't. I would like to see some LIRR RS3s and GP38s. When this happens.. they'll see my $$$.

 

Sunrise

I'm not sure about this, but didn't they blowout the GG-1's at the end of last year. That could be the main reason they aren't in the new catalog.

Well stated.  It's not that money grows on trees and any of us are happy to pay higher prices, but such is life.  The other thing that is interesting to me is that many people are complaining of higher prices by Lionel, WBB, and MTH.  I wonder how many of these folks are the same folks who believe that production should be moved back to the US -- because prices would be even higher, significantly higher.  

The US dollar has been strengthening for a year against most world currencies, up about 25%.  Import prices should be coming down.

http://finance.yahoo.com/echar...22%3A%22linear%22%7D

Looks like Williams is using the Kusan tankcar tooling...I don't recall Bachmann using that under their ownership.  But of course they own the tools through Sanda Kan.

What you are witnessing is the end to cheap China. In 3 or 4 years the cost to manufacturer in China will be on a even level with us labor.

 

i think lionel already knows what is coming. Find another country...that is cheaper...

manufacturer in the USA.

 

the party is over folks.

Looks like Williams is phasing out the F7?  When was the last new image offered?

I can see why, as they have a F3 which looks better.  That old F7 just never looked right.  As for other Williams designed locomotives lets hope they will be offered again with some upgraded features (better smoke, handrails, sound, and control).

 

I actually like WBB boxcars, they're bigger than Lionel 6464 cars and I think they look better with larger traditional diesels.  There has been a real lack of roads offered though.  Menards has done a nice job offering a good variety of these same basic cars at a really good price.

The F7 was the old Kusan tooling.  The F3 is the new stuff.

I been following this with interest.. Looking at the new catalogue I have noticed a few things. So here are my thoughts.

It seems they are introducing more of the K line based cars.

 

I can not wonder if the GP38 will be from the K Line tooling. If the they are using the HO GP38 in the catalogue I would think this is the case.  

 

Will the FA1s have lighted number boards and running lights?

 

On all the engines that will have the true blast plus will they install a volume control as they need to. I have just bought the GN GP30 and I love it. But I disconnected the sound board as I could hear the engine 2 rooms away. They could also add a capacitors so when you change direction you still have sound.

 

As for operating systems. I think they should just start selling O scale engines with the new remote feature but with a small hand held remote now. Otherwise they are going to be left behind quickly in market share with Lionel and we may never see any type of new operating system.. The new chuggington line would have been a good place to start.

 

The next thing they should do is just start wiring the motors in series from the factory. Since this is a mod most people do anyway.

 

As for rolling stock They need to drop the prices on the old molds and start introducing update rolling stock with more detail..

 

Waycars and cabooses. Since they own the molds from K line reintroducing the Cabs from that line will increase the variety of cab. but if they really want to do this. How about CB&Q/GN/DRG style cabs/waycars.

 

Doug

 

The very old F-7 need to be retired. Get the K-Line F's and put Williams drives under them......that would make a great loco.

Texas Pete, thank you for the link! As I have been following this post, and others concerning Williams products, one thing that seems to come up is "I would like this or that added", well, if you do add all the things that you are looking for you end up with another Lionel or MTH clone, I have always liked Williams products(diesels) for there price point and the fact they just seem to hold up and run so well for so much less than the other two big manufacturers.  That aside, I would be very interested in the new 44 toner, in Pa. of course! Depends on what the street price is going to end up being....

Find one of the later K-Line F unit sets and you will really have something.  I have a K-Line Santa Fe F unit A-B-A set, with 6 [yes 6] vertical motors with flywheels, sound, TMCC, smoke, Mars lights, etc, etc, etc. The 6 motor set was only made for one year.  It then reverted to 4 motors.   It is an awesome piece of machinery.  I also have a similar NYC  A-A set, with the same goodies.  The body shells and detailing are as good as I have ever seen. There are not many of these around.

I like the F7 only because of the connection to Kusan tooling.  I think thats cool.  But yeah they look a little odd.  

I love my WBB trains but out here in CA at my LHS he won't carry WBB because the profit margin is too small if not sold at full retail.  He said if someone came in and saw a WBB locomotive set for 500.00 plus dollars and a Lionel Legacy locomotive for 479.00, which would you choose?  I like to purchase at my LHS so I have to go with latter as I don't always want to wait for Train World or the other online retailers to discount their WBB locomotives and rolling stock. I have started buying all my used stuff over on the for sale or trade forum here at OGR.  So far I have add nothing but great experiences buying there. 

Ho-hum same old road names basically for the past ? how many years? Nice 44 tonner in same road names. Why not a 44 in Long Island? did they ever hear Long Island Railroad? Lionel, Mth, Rmt and others always clean house on this road!! Time they break from the boredom and get new roads on their models. A 44 tonner in New Haven would be nice to. They have the rs-3 tooling but no Long Island, New Haven, Penn Central ect. Just my opinion

That “Kusan” F-7 tooling that WBB is using was actually introduced by Kusan’s predecessor, AMT, in 1953.  The attached scan of the cover of a 1953 Auburn Model Trains folder shows an F-7 A-B in PRR.  The inside pages show a Santa Fe F-7 A-B pulling four of the AMT passenger cars.  The artwork is not in color but those Santa Fe diesels were made with the warbonnet paint scheme in blue and yellow, not red and silver like the well-known Lionel F-3's.  The accompanying text says that F-7's were also available in B&O and Southern in 1953. 

 

Before being bought by Kusan in 1954, AMT also came out with F-7’s in MKT, C&NW, CB&Q and one called “Silver Flash”. 

 

HTH,

 

Bill

I'm curious as to why WBB hasn't offered the GP30 in the B & O, Pennsy, and Reading liveries.   All three roads are very popular with modelers.  

IT is possible that WBB thinks the market is saturated with the GP30's between MTH and Lionel with thier Legacy releases only a couple of years ago. WBB may bring this model up next year in these liveries but for now IMHO they are better off concentrating on getting out the 44 tonner as well as the reissue of the K-line gp38. they should also consider the modifying the K-line GP38 to a GP40-2 phase II! IT's not that difficult to do so.

 

I've been following this topic for a couple days and have some impressions.

 

On this post alone, I'm reading "leave them just as they were", "put more bells and whistles in them", and everywhere in between. I don't know if Williams has all the tooling from K-line, and I don't think they do, so some of the wishes posted may not be possible. I also think that there is so much NIB product out there, that it doesn't make sense to keep offering the same engines/rolling stock over and over. I would guess the price increases are both manufacturing cost related and a feeling that if the other's are charging that much, why shouldn't we?

 

Lastly, a couple pics of my KMT Santa Fe f-7's:

 

 

 

 

I'm surprised to hear that the sound on the GP30 is too loud.  The sound on my CN RS3 is not loud enough.  I don't see anyway to increase it.  If I run it with my LC plus Hudson you can hardly hear the RS3 diesel sound.

Speaking of the C&O GP30 is the color is wrong instead of a dark blue it looked purple when I saw it at WGHT in Columbus.

When I did the series mod with the motors, I used some duck tape with a cloth covering the speaker to muffle it. At 1:00 in the morning I could still hear it loud and clear.from 2 rooms away.  So with that, I unplugged the sound board. Now I am thinking that I have a volume control nob from a PS1 engine that was upgraded. From what I have traced its connected between the board and the speaker. My thinking is I can do the same thing here.  

Wow, beautiful engines!  And the original boxes, too, which I see are AUBURN.  So they were made from the original AMT tooling which predates Kusan’s (KMT) involvement as I mentioned in my recent post above.  I wonder why it's called “Kusan” tooling?

 

Thanks for posting,

 

Bill

Keep an eye on RMT they have some beauties out there and they are priced nicely 

 

RMT has some nice stuff and for now the prices are very good. Better get some before their prices go up as well.

 

Lee Fritz

Here is the latest about Bachmann's so called "list prices".  A distributor is offering Williams 72 foot passenger car sets for $143.74, claiming that the list price is $579.90---a whopping 75 % off "list" he says.  

I have seen some blow out sales for Williams trains and the stuff is pre-Bachmann, which means it could have sat for almost 5 years. So be careful when buying Williams at blow out prices.

The reason for such a low price is that the dealer wants to use his space for new stuff and not 5 to 6 year old items.

Similar to a car dealership, would you buy a 2009 for the same price as a 2015 car? I don't think so.

 

Lee Fritz

The discussion about Williams and the Kusan/AMT tooling caused me to find and unpack my Williams NYC F-7 A-B-A set, which I have not used for years.  I put it on the layout and off it went, smooth and quiet. Very nice.  It has the glossy black paint, but it looks good. By the way, I just learned that the distributor I referred to earlier is blowing out Williams freight cars--14 different ones for $337.86.  Apparently they have made a large deal with Bachmann.

The distributor blow out stuff I referred is new WBB product, so says the distributor salesperson.

Over the last couple of years i have bought Williams loco's and stock including passenger cars and always felt I got a pretty good bang for my buck.

If folks are patient you will see some nice prices especially during the Summer months or before or after Christmas.

old Chinese saying, "All things come to he who waits."