2nd rant on Saturday York

Now you will know not to go on Saturday.

I'm not sure what the vendor rules are, but you may want to direct your inquiries to the Eastern Division.

I have the same complaint with a huge antique tractor and gas engine show/swap.  Its like they want it to be just a retirement hobby for retirees.  Someone needs to wake up and realize the younger generation cannot afford to take a day off work just for a hobby.  Sorry to hear your trip was a bust.  The York show is on my bucket list, but I will take my weeks vacation from work to attend due to distance and this very issue.   Mike

If that's how it is on Saturdays, then charging anyone full admission is a blatant ripoff! Since dealers see Saturday as the culmination of the 2-1/2 day event and the final hours of the meet as their opportunity to break down their tables, booths, and displays, then perhaps the Eastern division should follow the lead of how many fellow tca divisions handle the waning hour or so of their single day meets -- let folks, INCLUDING NONMEMBERS, in without tickets -- gratus! Perhaps some of those free entrants might even be motivated by the tiny sampling of what they see there to come back next York for a full Friday or Thursday.

Got there a little after 9, and knew going in that we would have to hurry through to see everything. After getting through about 1/2 an isle in the orange hall figured it was a bust. Their were about 10-15 tables empty, and I would say about 25% of the dealers had packed up half of their product. When I got to Trainworld, there was nothing to see, and I felt like I was in the way of their exit, now this was around 11:30. also another NY dealer, in the back near MTH, basiclly threw me out because I was loking for an item and was in there way of packing.. hurried to the Purple hall, and wow, half of the people left. saw the 2 layouts, who were packing up as they let a couple of trains run, and then went into the members halls. Now this was around 1pm. Thought we were going to get stampeded. I get it its a long show, and they want to go, but guess what, you signed up till 2pm, and I paid the same money as everyone else, it's already a half day, and we desearve the time to see it. If this is the way it's gonna be either get rid of Saturday, or discount the saturday tickets, or heres a thought, the ones that pack up early, throw them out and ban them. It's bull crap. I know they try to police it with the announcements, but the you must have product on the table at 2 is a cop out. They can have 1 item on the table, and believe me most of them had that, and for the last hopur or 2.

Agreed! This is also a pet peeve of mine. the TCA has the power to do something about this since their show is the biggest in the country! where else are these early packers going to go?

I've set  up in the White Hall for the past 4 years and must agree that it's an embarrassment to see so many start to break down and pack it up beginning at Noon.  I don't get it, frankly.  It takes me about 1/2 hour to pack up two tables of stuff.

Being on the buyer end for so many years, I know I'd like to get a full schedule to do my searching.

To this end, I try to keep all my stuff open and on display at least until 1:30pm and only begin to take the last half hour to start putting some things back into their boxes, that I had removed for display.  For instance, I had several powered and dummy engine sets for sale, with both units removed and displayed.  During the last 1/2 hour, I'll put one of them back into its packaging, but still leave the other out and the tags that note the pairing being offered.

The same early-out thought process also happens by 4:30pm on Thursday and Friday by some.  Again, I don't get it.  I do sales very often near the show ending times for each day.  It happened each day on this show.  An engine sale on Thursday, a engine pair on Friday and a rare rolling stock item I've had at each show the last 3 years and on Saturday afternoon, at 1:50pm, the guy who'd been looking for years, got it.

Again, this is an Eastern Division meet/show, the TCA is disconnected from direct involvement.

This really doesn't surprise me at all.  While I enjoyed York very much this time, and I agree completely with Alan Miller's comments in another thread, I also feel it was VERY clear that there's a TON of stuff in the market right now... and that's putting it politely.

So after two full days, I can easily understand vendors are thinking, "Hey, if thus stuff hasn't moved by now, let's start packing it up for another time so we can get home at a reasonable hour." 

I'm not saying it's right, if the meet is billed as 9AM-2PM on Saturday.  But it's just human nature.  People are people, and I'm sure by 12Noon every vendor is thinking about getting a head-start on packing and exiting stage left.

David

Time to switch back to a two day show.

Before I started in O-Gauge trains, I spent a few years in Radio Control Airplanes; from 1989 through 2003. In 1995 I decided to star a business building giant scale R/C airplanes that would be used for aerobatic competition. These airplanes had wingspans of around nine feet, and I offered them Ready-to-Fly.

Anyway, the R/C show that was equivalent to the 'York Train' show was, and I believe still is, the Toledo R/C Model Expo. I had a booth two consecutive years, and there were strict rules for all exhibitors to follow. The Show was open to the public Friday, Saturday and Sunday, we had to setup Thursday, and you could not take down the exhibits until after the show hours were over on Sunday.

The first year I went, I sold a 40% Extra 300 the first day. The airplane was on display, but I had to wait (as well as my customer) until Sunday late afternoon before he could pick it up, which he did. The show was well attended everyday it was open, but it started to slow down Sunday afternoon. Still, all the vendors and exhibits were there until the end.

That is the way to run a train; I mean a show.

Alex

People may not remember it vividly, but when it was Friday-Saturday, there were still many people packing up before the end (both dealers and members).

-Dave

The gentleman was only giving us his experience on what goes on, no call for your clever headed answer stating the bleeding obvious 

I fully agree, sellers should be selling until there allotted time, no excuses. If there is a problem with the idea if it's not sold by now it's not going to be sold at all, well my answer would be open Saturday to the public.....

I can not stand for some one to be done like this.Some must be done because this type of thing will turn people off.I thought this was to help promote the hobby.

The solution is so simple one has to wonder why the TCA does not enforce this?

Penalize the vendors or give up.

IN CONTRAST, I was there with 3 others and we bought more on Saturday than the previous 2 days, Bought 8 N&W Pass cars at great prices before we left at noon for our 12 hour trip back to Chicago.

So aside from the MASH-like announcement lady, the show was great.

That's great Alan, it's always fun towards the end of shows.....bargains to be had 

Pity, a few sellers ruin it by packing up early. It should be made quite clear that any seller leaving before the show ends, will not be invited back. Folk travel great distances and spend their hard earned. What a disappointment to see sellers leaving or worse already left before the show ends. Not good.

Absolutely correct! It's an Eastern Division event.

No event of this type can be all things to all people. If you can't make it on Thursday or Friday (preferably both) you just have to take your chances unless you live nearby.

I have promoted train shows, held tables, and attended shows as a customer for many years. There are a few reasons why table holders and dealers might leave a show early:

1 - they've run low on merchandise, and don't anticipate being able to sell much more

2 - the crowds have thinned to the point where they don't anticipate being able to sell much more

3 - they have a long way to go get home and/or a lot to do when they get there.

Even when the York show was two days, people left early on Saturday. I sympathize with the folks who can only attend on Saturday. The first time I attended, I didn't arrive till it was almost closing time on Friday. So for all practical purposes, I went for Saturday. Even with people leaving early, it was still the biggest and best train show I had ever attended.

Unlike some folks, I did not attend every York. There were plenty of times that work, family obligations, or lack of funds prevented me from attending. So the folks complaining about not being able to get away should not feel alone. There is more to life than trains.

Want to penalize table holders and dealers for leaving early? Some might stay, others will drop out. Anything the Eastern Division does to reduce the number of table holders / dealers would be detrimental to the show. There aren't people waiting in the wings to take those tables, as there were years ago.

Someone mentioned going back to a two day show. That would be fine with me.

Otherwise, perhaps the E.D. should run the show from 8:00 to noon on Saturday.

True.

But don't worry...when Saturday becomes open to the public, the dealers won't start packing until 12:15

If the show went to 2 days, Friday and Saturday, I suspect it could put an end to a few extra outside activities such as the Wednesday evening DCS meeting, Friday morning Legacy meeting, and a few other gatherings.  Some could probably reschedule and  I suspect the Thursday eveing OGR dinner could survive on those arriving Thursday and staying over to Friday.

Either way I can adapt.  But I also imagine that there a just as many that like it the way it is with the Thurs, Fri, Sat schedule.  I suspect cost and attendance would dictate that more than anything. 

I doubt it would change whether folks start to clean up earlier on Saturday though.  Some people have a long way to travel and even a few hours could make a difference in keeping a room an extra day.

I agree on all your points, Marty. Would be difficult to schedule the various group-type activities without a whole lot of overlap and inconvenience.

Like you, I can enjoy the meet whether it is two days or three, and regardless of the hours of operation. But you and I appear to be a good bit more flexible/adaptable than many here.

You're also correct about the Saturday closing. Hotels in the area jack-up prices significantly for the meet and those dollars can make a big difference not only to single-table sellers, but also to dealers with multiple staff and helpers participating.

I would like to see the MEET opened at 9am on Thursday. No need to have the MEET on Saturday at all.

Do you think it would have moved with real world pricing?

Hey, just reporting my experience, some of the tables were there till the end, but most packed up. and again some packed up the night before. I understand they want to go, but then don't setup. I did write the Eastern division, got blown off. I agree they should either tell these people they can not pack up till after event is over or like someone suggested, make Saturday free. I am sure a lot of these guys made quite a bit of money, and to treat the Saturday crowd like 2nd class is a joke, we paid the same money, we should get the same chance.

I agree with the original post.  So many people are overly rude about strollers and little things.  Yet, they can't follow the rules they agree to, and remain set-up till the end.  

And if you make it a 2 day show, everyone will be packing up at 2 on Friday!  The only answer is to enforce the rules, something TCA obviously doesn't care about.

quote:

Do you think it would have moved with real world pricing

Not necessarily.

I price my stuff very attractively at local shows (so my friends tell me).

Plenty of it comes back home with me.

Sometimes people seem to assume that there must be something wrong with an item to be priced so low.

There is a limited supply of out of production stuff. Prices fluctuate with the season and with the economy. Only distressed sellers are going to sell quality items at whatever price they can get.

Well, supposedly, the Eastern Division does penalize vendors who leave early.  At least they threaten to do this.

Does that actually happen?  I ask that honestly, because I do not know.  Maybe some one from the Eastern Division can answer that question.

George

I think the reason Saturday closing time is 2:00 is because that was thought to be "early" so the folks would have time to pack up and leave.  Whatever "closing time" is anywhere, you always see some who take advantage so that they are out the door at the specified time instead of just stopping work then.

.....

Dennis.

What about those who for one reason or another can't get a day off during that week? Or those that want to take  the kids? What are the options for them then? Call in sick?, not really a good idea after you ask off and then have it denied, they know you're not sick and now your on the "S" list. Have your kid miss a day of school just to go to a train show? Kinda short sighted if you ask me to not be open on Saturday.

Jerry

I can't speak for those in the trading halls, but many of us in the Orange hall have large displays/backgrounds/signage as well as merchandise to put away. Also, I personally have sold out of some products on Friday. And as far as the 10-15 empty tables on Saturday, I would say they were empty for the entire show. 

We are not allowed to move stuff out the door until 2 PM on Saturday. And even with some pre-packing, it takes a good 2 hours for me to break everything down and load my truck. Since many of us have long drives ahead, it behooves us to get on the road as soon as possible. Additionally, Saturday is a bust for most of us. After 12 o'clock the sales are few if any. 

York is a major commitment in time, money and energy for vendors. At least for me, that 3 day show entails about 3 weeks of time when all is said and done. 

I understand the frustration for those who can only attend on Saturday but it is what it is. It wouldn't make any difference if the last day was Friday.  

I have only been going to York for about 10 years and have never had a table but maybe there was a time when they had more sellers than tables. In that case I can see the threat of losing your table would encourage people to stay until the end. Now there are more tables than sellers. You take away table privileges you just have fewer sellers. Not the result you are looking for is it?

Pete

OK, here's a variation on this question for you to consider, just for fun (because it was great fun for me, as a vendor in the Orange Hall, to actually experience more than once.)

On two occasions, I nearly Sold-Out at about the midway point on Friday. During another TCA Meet @ York, I nearly Sold-Out on Thursday, forcing me to pose the question to myself: If I do Sell-Out completely, what is my obligation regarding staying at my 10'x10' booth, devoid of any product whatsoever?

I usually bring about 41 "Insta-ramas" (portable dioramas varying in size from 7"x12" to 38"x21"). On that Thursday, six remained, and by the close of Friday, two remained.

What would you have advised me, guys? What if I had sold out completely on a Thursday or on Friday?

And regarding staying until the last minute on Saturday, on another occasion, I learned a good lesson. With just a few minutes to go until 12:30pm, I had 17 Insta-Ramas remaining (out of 44). Into my little booth walked Richard Kughn, a return-customer. He looked around and with one gesture (we had become acquainted through his previous purchases at previous Meets) said, "I'll take 'em all." I got so excited, I exclaimed, "You just fell on me like Christmas Morning!" and I gave him a hug. He chuckled and returned the gesture. His wife smiled broadly and chuckled and said, "I've ever seen anybody do that to him!"

What did I learn? That Mr. Kughn is a very, very good customer, a very, very pleasant and gracious fellow, and that one never knows what can happen on a Saturday!

FrankM.

Layout Refinements

quote:

I have only been going to York for about 10 years and have never had a table but maybe there was a time when they had more sellers than tables. In that case I can see the threat of losing your table would encourage people to stay until the end. Now there are more tables than sellers. You take away table privileges you just have fewer sellers. Not the result you are looking for is it?

That's a fact. At one time there not enough tables to go around. Member table holders were limited to one table each.

Today member table holders can get multiple tables, and still there are empty tables at the show.

The fellow next to me this meet (he mentioned he had not been in maybe 5 years or so) said he did on one occasion years ago leave a little early and he did receive  a letter.  So at some point, they did get sent out. 

Of course if a big vendor in the Orange hall starts packing, it's unlikely the ED is going to send them a letter (or at least they won't likely enforce the threat) since they are a big reason attendees show up.

-Dave

York is also a major commitment in time, money and energy for attendees.

If vendors and the show administrators/sponsors don't believe that then by all means keep screwing the attendees around--and little by little the attendees will go away.

Then there can be multiple threads every month titled "What Happened to York?"

Jeff C

If you sell all of your items I believe (though I don't know if or where it's written) you have a valid reason to no longer man your table.

A fellow member I've known for years had this happen to him a few meets back, I think.  I believe the hall captain agreed there was no sense in him needing to sit at a table with nothing left to sell.

-Dave