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Dear Friends, I have started with 3D printing and already found a very handy project where the designing and printing really did a great job to solve the problem with Atlas underbody bolsters always being a mess. That's clearly the down side of multi-gauge manufacturing that you always need enough clearance for the 3-rail fraction.

My Prusa i3Mk3 was surely quite an investment and to build it up from parts a challenge. It runs surprisingly well and the filament forms super strong parts.

I've designed the part in Autodesk Fusion 360 after watching some tutorials on YouTube. The software is free for private use.

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The amazing thing is how exact the measurements are (0.1mm).

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Here's the finished frame with shims between bolster and draft gear box. I incorporated these into a next version of the part.

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I am a big time fan of Jay Criswell's cast proto:48 conversion bolsters to re-use your old IM truck parts. The wheels are NWSL.

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The print is so exact that you can easily achieve a perfect fit of that trucks, they glide on these little pads and ensure an upright car body.

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You might have seen some stepping in the filament print. That's clearly there but could be sanded easily. I did not because you can't see what's going on under that truck from no angle.

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This boxcar conversion was a real learning challenge but now I have the file to print these as needed. More cars are waiting in the basement.

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Greetings from Austria

Sarah

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"Look at the resin printers as they can print with higher resolution."

Yes, and no. Resin printers will indeed print at a higher resolution, but there are lots of things that you make for which resin is not as good an alternative as the FDM printers and for which you don't NEED a high rez for.  The things that she is making is a good example, quick and easy print, made out of strong plastic. Resin printers are frankly, a pain in the ***. They are great for some things, no doubt, but it is sort of like cooking. You pour the liquid in the vat, don't breathe it if you can help it, then you start your print. IF all goes well, you then open the machine and have a dripping wet item and whatever liquid is left over in the vat. You take the plate off the machine that your print is stuck to and either get your rubber gloves on and take it off the build plate or else leave it attached and open up your Iso alcohol and swish the item around in it for 5 minutes or so. Then you blow off the excess with an air hose and rewash it in soapy water. Then, still wearing gloves so you don't get it on your skin, you have to set it with UV light. This is usually best down while your part is submerged in water, so you need a glass container large enough to hold whatever you print.  Oh yea, you have to remove the item at some point from the build plate. It will be stuck pretty good, sometimes you ruin your part unsticking it. Anyway, once the UV light has cured the part, you can safely touch it now with your bare hands. But don't let the cat or dog chew on it, it is still toxic. Now, if you cured it while in water, it probably has not warped any. Otherwise, you got to decide if slight warping matters.  Let it sit for a week and it may warp more, you just never know. Oh, and while you are waiting, you need to get a bottle and run the left over liquid in the vat through a very fine filter.  You NEVER put used resin back into the virgin resin bottle. And you can dunk you vat into your alchy and clean it too after draining it.

OR, you can buy a roll of plastic of whatever kind you want to use, print it on the FDM printer and it is ready to use, no washing, curing, blah, blah, blah. Whoops, you say the dog got ahold of it and chewed it, no problem, dog will be fine, just print a new one...

Resin printers are frankly, a pain in the ***.

not if you have a nice one like a FormLabs3 that auto-fills the tank and has resin cartridges. I rarely have an issue with my prints.

also resin prints are isotropic meaning strong in all directions. FDM or rather tube printers print objects that are inherently weak in the Z-direction. Warping rarely occurs if your print is properly designed. Certain resins used by dentists is not toxic.

Last edited by AlanRail

Other companies are catching up with Formlabs.  Elegoo Jupiter launches tomorrow.  Unlike Formlabs it uses a built plate to keep costs down.  They will have a build volume compatible build volumes and resolutions (10.9" x 6.6" x 11.8" and 0.002" respectively) .

I don't have any experience with the water soluble resins so I can't comment on the smell or toxicity.

Jan

Before you spend 15-20 times more on a Form Labs, do some research.  The resin for these are 3-4 time more than for most of the cheaper ones, but a bigger problem seems to be poor customer service and slow shipment of supplies.   They could be easier to use, more bells and whistles, and less tweaking needed for good prints, but a side by side comparison of prints with the $200 printer I use,  will show no difference.

@AlanRail posted:

Resin printers are frankly, a pain in the ***.

not if you have a nice one like a FormLabs3 that auto-fills the tank and has resin cartridges. I rarely have an issue with my prints.

also resin prints are isotropic meaning strong in all directions. FDM or rather tube printers print objects that are inherently weak in the Z-direction. Warping rarely occurs if your print is properly designed. Certain resins used by dentists is not toxic.

Aren't resin printers old technology?  My brother did his aerospace engineering master's thesis using resin printing technology in 1996.

So is FDM printing.  It is the engineering that goes into the printers.  The low-cost resin printers use LCD panels like in your TV and phone to mask each layer.  Mono LCD panels are used now instead of color which results in faster printing and longer panel life.  An array of UV LEDs instead of scanning lasers set the resin.  That's why you can get a small printer for under $200.  The build area is limited by the size of the LCD panel.

Mechanical techniques like the traveling laser in the Formlabs printers make for a larger build area.

The resolutions of the printers in comparable.i

Jan

Got a new design: I'm experimenting with getting a Union Pacific O-50-6 tank car printed and by now I feel up to designing the model. Fusion 360 is really very intuitive and with some tutorials it turns more and more into a handy tool for modelling bigger projects. The turret's rivet rows were really tricky, though.

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@Jan posted:

Other companies are catching up with Formlabs.  Elegoo Jupiter launches tomorrow.  Unlike Formlabs it uses a built plate to keep costs down.  They will have a build volume compatible build volumes and resolutions (10.9" x 6.6" x 11.8" and 0.002" respectively) .

I don't have any experience with the water soluble resins so I can't comment on the smell or toxicity.

Jan

I've got an order in for a Jupiter ($600 kickstarter price). Hate having to wait until early next year for it to ship, but the price can't be beat, and the self-refilling vat is especially great for large items (as is the extendable Z axis modules). Currently have a Qidi Shadow 5.5s, works great, but the small build size really limits its usability to detail parts for the most part.

I exclusively use water washable resin (have a bottle of the regular stuff lying around, but alcohol was ridiculously hard to come by during the beginning of the pandemic). It's not as versatile, as most tend to be rather fragile when cured, but the ease of cleanup makes it worthwhile for most of the stuff I print.

Dick,

There are many places on the web that have models that you can download.  Just search on 3d models.  Here are a few.  The models come in various stages of the design/print process and some have restrictions.

https://www.thingiverse.com/

https://3dprint.com/24721/open-railway-project-3d/

https://www.cgtrader.com/free-3d-models/train

I use a freeware CAD package called FreeCAD  It is a powerful parametric modeller.  This allows one to use equations to define the relationships between the various dimensions of the model.  By changing a few values all related dimensions will be changed to reflect the new values.  There are many tutorials om YouTube show its use.

We have a Elegoo Saturn MSLA  resin printer, Dremel 3D45 FDM printer, and an ANYCUBIC Photon S 3D Printer.  We chose to receive our Jupiter printer in June.  We figured they would have 5 months to work out all the bugs.

My nephew is running some parts for comparison between the Saturn and Dremel.  When we have some pictures we'll post them to this thread.

Jan

another way to look at resolution is how it relates to scale.

actual 1/4" is 12" in scale

1/8" is  6"

1/16" is 3"

1/32"  is 1.5" in scale.  anything smaller is  too weak or looks like an undefined  blob.

so the smallest  diameter of a handrail that can be printed is 1/32' but at that size unless supported will be way too weak.

also if those bolts are less than 1/32"  or 1.5" diameter you need to test how your printer prints this small a detail.

Last edited by AlanRail

not really saying that; Resin prints are isotropic meaning strong in all directions; tube prints are weak vertically because they are printed in vertical layers where vertical layer adhesion is dependent on the relative melting cohesion of successive layers.

FormLabs has developed dozens of different resins that are far stronger and flexible than plastics used in tube printers. Take a look at the webpage Formlabs 3D Printing Materials Library



Their Resins are not brittle.

Last edited by AlanRail

I remember that 20 years or so ago, when 3-D printers were first invented, it was announced with great fanfare that they would totally revolutionize manufacturing in the 21st Century, and that in short order, everything from your cars to pancake flippers would be made by 3-D printers.

It didn't happen.  In my book, a real flop.

Good to hear that they may be of use in making train stuff!

Mannyrock

HERE are 27 products that looked great but flopped.

In twenty years, 3D printing has not made the list.

1) McDonald’s Arch Deluxe

I still remember commercials on TV for the Arch Deluxe which began airing in 1996 but no amount of advertising could save this burger. It was an attempt to offer “upscale” product offerings but customers weren’t lovin’ it.

2) Ben-Gay Aspirin

Ben-Gay is a strong brand because when you hear the word “Ben-Gay”, you immediately think of pain relief cream. But that is the problem and the main reason why this aspirin product never lasted. People just didn’t like the thought of swallowing anything relating to Ben-Gay.

3) Bic Underwear

Bic is a company that is well-known for its line of disposable razors, lighters, and pens. When the company released underwear, most consumers didn’t understand why and passed.

4) Kellogg’s Breakfast Mates

More failed products that probably looked good on paper but kids just didn’t understand the packaging or its instructions. Opening a box of cereal and pouring cold fresh milk in a bowl is so much easier and Kellogg’s later realized this.

5) Cheetos Lip Balm

If you love licking your fingers after eating Cheetos, you would think this product would be great. Unfortunately, it apparently didn’t even taste like Cheetos.

6) Colgate Frozen Kitchen Entrees

Colgate may be one of the leading toothpaste brands but consumers just couldn’t comprehend buying Colgate “food”. I suppose Colgate thought that by eating a Colgate meal, people would then brush afterwards with Colgate toothpaste but it was a bad idea from the start.

7) Coors Rocky Mountain Water

While soft drink companies are successfully selling water under different brands, Coors just couldn’t do the same with it’s rocky mountain water. When consumers buy Coors water, they expect it to be fermented with barley, hops, and yeast.

8) Cosmopolitan Yogurt

Sure, yogurt is a growing product category but when you’re a company that publishes 58 editions and distributes them to more than 100 countries, then Cosmopolitan should stick to what it does best. They did try to sell their own brand of yogurt but lackluster sales caused them to pull their failed products off shelves after only 18 months.

9) Crystal Pepsi

In the 90’s, people were were obsessed with clear products. Clear soap, see-through phones, and transparent soft drinks. Pepsi jumped onto the bandwagon by offering Crystal Pepsi but it didn’t last long.

10) Microsoft Bob

27 Failed Products - Microsoft Bob.

Source Unknown

Bob’s your uncle or so Microsoft thought. Bob was released who found Windows 95 intimidating since so many new customers were purchasing computers for the first in the mid-90’s because of this this thing called the “Internet” that started getting popular around 1995. Bob was supposed to help with simple tasks but it only made things more complicated so Microsoft didn’t create future versions of the software.

11) Sony’s Betamax

Sony may have been first to market with its Betamax in 1975, but the format wars began when JVC and Matsu****a released the VHS format and video player two years later in 1977. Because VHS was a licensed standard, any company could produce video players which drove costs down but because Sony didn’t license the Betamax format, its players remained expensive.

12) Ford Edsel

Ford has had a lot of success in its 100+ year history but the Ford Edsel wasn’t a model they could call a winner. It was called the “Titanic of Automobiles” and had disappointing sales. When Ford released the Mustang in 1964, it was a huge success and anybody that still had a bad taste in their mouth about the Edsel quickly forgot about it after driving a Mustang.

13) Gerber Singles

Back in 1974, Gerber wanted to expand their line of pureed meats, vegetables, and fruits to college kids or people that were living alone for the first time. Nothing makes you feel more like an adult than eating meat mush out of a baby food jar with a spoon. Needless to say, their failed products didn’t last long on the market.

14) Harley Davidson Perfume

I know what you’re thinking. What man doesn’t want to smell like a ‘Hot Road’? It’s understandable that Harley-Davidson owners want to own everything the company makes because the brand is legendary but loyal customers had to draw the line somewhere.

15) Heinz EZ Squirt Ketchup

Ketchup is a difficult product to expand because customers are already happy with Heinz ketchup. There is only so many ways to improve ketchup but Heinz thought one way to expand the product line was by creating “mystery colors”. While kids may have enjoyed its grossness factor, it wasn’t enough for Heinz to keep it in their product line.

16) HP TouchPad

Failed products like this tablet from HP was far from being the “iPad killer” some tech magazines and websites were claiming it to be. It was based on a new operating system called webOS and had virtually no third-party support which is why retailers quickly had a fire sale to get rid of it as quickly as possible.

17) Earring Magic Ken

When Mattel decided to release a hipper version of Ken in 1993 featuring a mesh t-shirt, lavender vest, and one earring, it didn’t expect to get so much backlash. It drew criticism from the gay community for proposing false stereotypes and Mattel stopped production of the doll.

18) Life Savers Soft Drinks

Life Savers may be one of Wrigley’s most successful products and the number one brand of non-chocolate candy but as a soft drink, it tanked. Drinking liquid candy just didn’t win over consumers.

19) McDonald’s McDLT

Nobody likes soggy burgers so McDonald’s figured that if they could provide a burger that separated the cold condiments and veggies from the hot beef patty, they’d have a winner. It didn’t last long and it partly was because customers did not like having to assemble their burgers and making a mess.

20) Microsoft Zune

Microsoft released the Zune almost five years after the original iPod and couldn’t make a dent in Apple’s 65% market share in personal audio players. It was discontinued in 2011 and Microsoft encouraged users to purchase a Windows phone instead but that strategy doesn’t seem to be working either.

21) New Coke

When Coca-Cola released the “New Coke” in 1985, executives could probably hear their loyal customers around the world weeping every time they took a sip. After boycotts and protests, Coca-Cola quickly reintroduced the original Coke as “Coke Classic”.

22) Apple Newton

The Apple Newton was ahead of its time and had great features but the only problem was, most of the features didn’t work properly such as writing recognition. The product may have initially flopped but it paved the way for the Palm Pilot, BlackBerry, and eventually the iPhone (ditched the stylus!)

23) Pepsi A.M.

Cola soft drinks have caffeine and so does coffee right? Pepsi thought they could no wrong by offering a soft drink you can drink in the morning but most consumers didn’t want to drink soft drinks morning, noon, and night.

24) The Segway

The Segway is another great example of failed products that received tons of hype in the press but failed miserably when they were actually released. The company expected to sell anywhere from 50,000 to 100,000 units in its first year but it took them over two years to sell a meager 23,500 units.

25) RJ Reynolds’ Smokeless Cigarettes

These came out in 1988 and apparently “produced a smell and a flavor that left users retching”. Sounds great already! Besides the fact that they tasted horrible, rumors began circulating that they were being used by some customers as a delivery device for crack cocaine. The company quickly pulled them off the shelves.

26) Thirsty Cat! and Thirsty Dog! bottled water

In what could be considered a soft drink for pets, this daily pet drink had great flavors like Tasty Beef and Tangy Fish. While pets probably enjoyed it, pet owners didn’t see a need for feeding the pets with sugar water.

27) WOW! snack foods

Olestra is a fat substitute that was approved by the FDA in 1996 and still approved to this day. These chips may cause stomach upset, cramps, gas, and loose bowels but they’re fat free! All kidding aside, consumers just weren’t ready for snack foods with a health disclaimer on every package.

NOTHING ABOUT 3D printers.

@Mannyrock posted:

I remember that 20 years or so ago, when 3-D printers were first invented, it was announced with great fanfare that they would totally revolutionize manufacturing in the 21st Century, and that in short order, everything from your cars to pancake flippers would be made by 3-D printers.

It didn't happen.  In my book, a real flop.

Good to hear that they may be of use in making train stuff!

Mannyrock

3D printing is still evolving, but it will still be a while before products can be cranked out as fast as conventional. manufacturing.  However, 3D printing has found it's place in the prototyping process and for making master molds.

Rusty

I remember eating the Lays Potato Chips with Olestra, and being sick for 4 hours afterwards!  (They should have tested in on prisoners first.)

The Segway was going to revolutionize foot travel throughout the urban world.  The inventor actually donated the Patent to the public good.   I guess he didn't think about how many curbs there are in the world.  It could climb a curb, but it looked like a donkey trying to go up a set of stairs.

Alan, what does one of the 3D printers you are using for trains cost?

Mannyrock

MR-  I only wish I could predict the futures of anything!

Look 3D printers are nothing like the STAR TREK replicators.  If that's your idea of a non-flop then you are correct.

COST. the cost is not just the price of the printers and  other washing, post-processing accessories and resin (Cost 2 Lionel BigBoys.)

It's the cost and time to learn a 3D modeling program, how to create a model for 3D printing (Sarah says that Fusion is intuitive) and setting up the model orientation in the printer's slicer program to correctly print.

WOW...Bic underwear!!! Where do you stick the pen...LOL!    Anyway off track there....     Sarah, wonderful job with the 3D printer.    There is a guy from Nebraska who I talked to at the recent St. Louis (Mo) RPM Meet in July, that 3D prints Behlen Grain Storage buildings in HO scale.   I had him make me one in O scale...wow, what a big building, and the detail is great.   Now he is going to make an add on kit.    Yes, 3D printing can be a saver when you just cannot find parts commercially available.   Keep up the great work!

Last edited by R Nelson

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