3D printing, the future?

@Mannyrock posted:

I remember that 20 years or so ago, when 3-D printers were first invented, it was announced with great fanfare that they would totally revolutionize manufacturing in the 21st Century, and that in short order, everything from your cars to pancake flippers would be made by 3-D printers.

It didn't happen.  In my book, a real flop.

Good to hear that they may be of use in making train stuff!

Mannyrock

They didn't flop, the problem was the hype machine oversold how fast it would develop. One person I know talking about 3d printing, said "well, look at how fast smart phones took off".....the only thing is smart phones were not revolutionary technology either, in the sense that it represented putting together existing technology in a way no one thought of. The cell phone technology was not new at all, the chips to run the app were not exotic technology and the data technology (now at 5g level) was not earthshakingly new.

3d printing has advanced tremendously in 20 years (and I can see that, and I am not an expert). No, it isn't the star trek replicator kind of thing, but that was hype, not reality. It has developed the way a lot of other revolutionary technology developed, it takes time. The fact that you can get home printers at a reasonable cost is one sign of that. What you don't see is how it is being used behind the scenes. It is being used by military contractors to print parts, I read something not long ago that the military was developing systems to allow them to literally build replacement parts when out in the field. It is being used to prototype parts for manufacturing, but is also being used to print things commercially. And it is advancing, what Sarah did in this thread wouldn't have been possible not all that many years ago.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The scary part is she was way ahead of me on her first post here, how's a person to ever catch up!

It is always really nice to have someone to catch up to on something, you can't be top dog in everything, GRJ

I think at some point 3D printing will be as common and as cheap as color laser printers.

Maybe with the Egloo PLUTO model.

However, again I think laser cutters will beat out 3D printers to be first to be common.

@bigkid posted:

It is always really nice to have someone to catch up to on something, you can't be top dog in everything, GRJ

You can be sure that there are many areas that I'm not even in the dog fight, and this is one of them.   I've looked at 3D printers a host of times, but I just can't see how I'd have the time to actually develop the skills to use them effectively.

@Mannyrock posted:

I remember that 20 years or so ago, when 3-D printers were first invented, it was announced with great fanfare that they would totally revolutionize manufacturing in the 21st Century, and that in short order, everything from your cars to pancake flippers would be made by 3-D printers.

It didn't happen.  In my book, a real flop.

Good to hear that they may be of use in making train stuff!

Mannyrock

My brother was doing 3D printing for his master's thesis back in the early to mid 90's.  The technology is not new.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

You can be sure that there are many areas that I'm not even in the dog fight, and this is one of them.   I've looked at 3D printers a host of times, but I just can't see how I'd have the time to actually develop the skills to use them effectively.

I hear you, I know how I am with CAD programs (just designing my modest layout in a rail design program burned out brain cells, and it was a simple design,no grades, no 3d version, etc) or visual design programs, and it would be a full time job. This is kind of one of those things that goes in "when I am retired, and have the time". 

I just can't see how I'd have the time to actually develop the skills to use them effectively.

John if I, a former structural engineer and lawyer can design and build a circuit board .....you can design a 3D object.

I started with TINKERCAD an easy free 3D modeling program. Modeling is just putting together 3D shapes like squares ,rectangular boxes spheres or cylinders to resemble your model then subtracting holes or parts you don't want.

You clearly understand that Printing is just converting your model to a .STL file that is read by a slicer program that creates vertical slices that the printer prints in steps.

It really is not that hard to do or I couldn't do it either.

@AlanRail posted:

John if I, a former structural engineer and lawyer can design and build a circuit board .....you can design a 3D object.

I have no doubt that I have the ability to learn, just not the time to devote to the process.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

...............just not the time to devote..........

I fully appreciate that condition.  I need to jettison some of the activities I've taken on in the past 3-4 years.

John

Think of it this way: 3D printing is a way of making "custom" electrical circuit housings with openings for LEDS and switch openings.

Disclaimer: It's HO and a UK-prototype channel...

YouTuber 'Sam's Trains' documented his experience with getting a 3D printer and learning to build various pieces of (UK-inspired) rolling stock of increasing sophistication, (by his own admission, not nitpicker-grade modeling). A significant part of these videos (and the entirety of the fifth one) is narrating the building of the 3d models in reiatively simple CAD applications like the web-app version of SketchUp (the...only free version unless you use the 2017 SketchUp Make)

As of this writing he has yet to put all those videos in the playlist he created for them (i left a comment on his most recent video asking if he noticed this), so I tried to present them in the order released--had he populated his 3d printing playlist I would have just linked to that, so apologies in advance for the string of embeds...

Binge-watching all seven videos will take about 4 hours 40-ish minutes, so maybe bookmark the post and watch them over the course of a few days if you find the process interesting.

Below, a tutorial video narrating the build of a basic gondola in SketchUp:

---PCJ

@mwb posted:

Very neatly done, Sarah!

Can you send me a half dozen or so of those domes?

Thanks, sure – these domes are specifically done for the UP O-50-6 type tank car, quite a big one, carrying 12.515 gallons. That means the radius for the dome to fit is made for a tank of 48.5mm in diameter. I love to share!

Sarah

@Sarah posted:

Thanks, sure – these domes are specifically done for the UP O-50-6 type tank car, quite a big one, carrying 12.515 gallons. That means the radius for the dome to fit is made for a tank of 48.5mm in diameter. I love to share!

Sarah

Okay, that'll be a wee bit large; can you knock that back down to 40 mm OD and all that then?

Great stuff, Sarah!

I scratch built a bunch of marker lanterns for cabooses and ends of passenger trains. I thought it would be a pretty simple project to drill out holes on 3 axis in twenty-six tiny metal beads, shape the end of brass screws for the bottoms and add some brass tube and pins on the top and solder it all together. By the time I did all of that I'm sure I could have learned how to make them with 3D printing, such simple shapes, and they'd have printed out very consistent. I wish I would have done it this way.

how much are the 3D printers to purchase and how hard are they to learn to program and approximate how much time it takes to learn how !

Alan

That a question like: How long is a road!

Obviously, 3D printers come in all price ranges from a couple hundred to tens of thousands of dollars!  Pricing is based in the size of model, the media used to print, and the printing technology.

How long it takes to learn to program is again a question only you can really evaluate.  It will be at least how long it takes you to learn to do 3D design drawings, again a number nobody can really state as it depend on the individual.

You can use existing 3D designs much faster, but even learning the in's and out's of a specific 3D printer is a vary variable number.

Things are about to get real, the tank is fully designed with stanchion positions and rivets. To fit the build space I had to cut it into two halves that have support brackets to help re-join again. Wish me luck!

To minimize possible deformation around the areas that the supports attach, I always add 1 or 2mm for sanding off with a disk sander after the supports are removed.  Will be interesting to see how your ends come out, round or oblong a little.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

1. That a question like: How long is a road!

2.  How long it takes to learn to program is again a question only you can really evaluate.  It will be at least how long it takes you to learn to do 3D design drawings, again a number nobody can really state as it depend on the individual.

1.

2. I have a sense that our Sarah is a pretty fast learner... 🙂

Mark in Oregon

@Alan Mancus posted:

how much are the 3D printers to purchase and how hard are they to learn to program and approximate how much time it takes to learn how !

Alan

How hard is it to learn drafting?  I remember several in my high school drafting class that never really got the hang of it.  Things always look easy until you try to do it.

When making a cad file, you have to be precise with your dimensions and proportions.  Everything you want to be on your model has to be included be it on the main printing or as add on components.  You just can't draw a rectangle and expect a boxcar to come out printed.

Sara is obviously very talented and I suspect patient.

Rusty

Sarah,

Did you use a resin printer for the domes?  They sure don't look like they were printed on a FDM printer.

Jan

@Strummer posted:

1.

2. I have a sense that our Sarah is a pretty fast learner... 🙂

Mark in Oregon

I sense you're right, but I was specifically addressing Alan's question.

I have no doubts about Sarah's capabilities, one only has to read her threads about projects to know that she's an expert modeler.

@Rusty Traque posted:

How hard is it to learn drafting?  I remember several in my high school drafting class that never really got the hang of it.  Things always look easy until you try to do it.

A lot of people do not visualize well into 3 dimensions; watching the drop out/failure rate in my sophomore chemistry class proved that to me.   More than a few laser cut kits of structures indicate to me that the same guys in that class are selling kits now.

Ha!  I went to school to be a draftsman.  When I got out, CAD was a new thing and they were laying off draftsmen all over industry. Couldn't get a job in that field for trying. So, got a job as an apprentice machinist instead.  CAD is interesting because some things that were so simple to do with paper and pencil take hours to master in CAD, but on the other hand, some things that took a lot of figuring on a drafting table happen almost instantly when doing it on a computer.

But, anyone that wants to try it can easily download any number of free 3d CAD programs and watch some youtube lessons to get the hang of it. If it is something you decide you want to do, then deciding on your 3d program you want to stick with becomes a little more complicated.  Obviously the bigger your budget the more options you have, but professional programs bring with them a lot of functions you will never really need or use. I like using Rhino 3d because it is command driven, ala, Autocad variations, but you certainly don't even need that much power really. Best thing to do is download and install anything that is free and try to use each one to draw the same "something basic" in each one to find out which feels more comfortable to you and go from there.

3d printing is amazing.  It's not a silver bullet, and there's a lot of hype.  But it's like any other tool.  Put in the time to become proficient and it'll let you do things you couldn't do before.  Here's my example.  I really like RS-3s, but my Lionels had a very unrealistic set of tanks in the undercarriage.

The real thing looks like:

But my Lionels had a big awkward open space underneath:

So I used Fusion360 (which is free for hobbyists) to model this up:

And when printed and mounted, it looks like this:

I wouldn't have had the skills to scratchbuild that before 3d printing.  It's fun to combine hobbies!

You should be in 2 rail, and you should sell those to Lionel people everywhere.

I always add 1 or 2mm for sanding off with a disk sander after the supports are removed.

With the 3D printer I have, fewer supports are needed and the supports break off clean so need to sand.

I like using Rhino 3d   METOO!

There you go!  I had been using Ashlar Cobalt for years and years, but they are switching to a subscription service instead of just buying the program, so I got Rhino and I actually like most of it better. Cobalt is a little more intuitive in some areas, but Rhino works great too.

@oscaletrains posted:

You should be in 2 rail, and you should sell those to Lionel people everywhere.

I'll do you one better.  Here's a link to the STL files for it.  Anyone can download and print their own.

https://github.com/joelwetzel/...RS-3%20Undercarriage

It's printed in 4 parts and then glued together.  If your RS-3 is a Lionel from the past 20 years or so, then the frame is molded plastic and the undercarriage is molded into it.  This is sized perfectly to fit over and cover the existing undercarriage tanks.  (By the way, if anyone knows better terminology or what exactly all these parts are, I would love to learn more about it.)

If your Lionel RS-3 is from the 80s or 90s, those had a metal frame and the undercarriage was a plastic part screwed on.  You can take it off and replace with this.

Nice you should think of adding that to the OGRR 3D print repository.

Sarah

You have reached the next level of 3D printing!.. printing interconnecting parts.

When making parts to fit into other parts the caution is not to make them exact.

Meaning that when you make 1/32" hole in something the male part that fits in should be less than the 1/32 hole diameter; a 1/32" diameter post will not fit into a 1/32" hole because the both dimensions are exact. Because the 3D laser printer's printing is so precise.

@Jan posted:

Sarah,

Did you use a resin printer for the domes?  They sure don't look like they were printed on a FDM printer.

Jan

Hello Jan,

yes, indeed. I use an Elegoo Saturn with water washable resin. I also own a Prusa i3 filament printer that I love to use on all constructive stuff or underframe work to repair 3-rail compromises into nice 2-rail models. Both have their pro's and con's.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I sense you're right, but I was specifically addressing Alan's question.

I have no doubts about Sarah's capabilities, one only has to read her threads about projects to know that she's an expert modeler.

Thank you so much! :-) I'm so glad to be part of the community. <3

@Sarah posted:

Thank you so much! :-) I'm so glad to be part of the community. <3

And you are indeed!  I love to read about the stuff you're doing, the attention to detail is pretty amazing!

We like our Saturn.  It's the printer that produced the PRR flat car I posted earlier.  I just received the MARS 3 which has better XY resolution (0.035 mm) to use to print small parts.  Still need to clear the space for it and its wash/cure stations.

Yo might try using your FDM to print the railings.  Using the filament by itself would makes a 3.3" railing.

Jan

I’d like to get a resin printer someday. I print in PLA right now. A nice trick I’ve found printing things for my locomotives: you can buy PLA filament that is 40% iron filings. It prints with a nice texture that hides layer lines. The grey naturally matches grey undercarriages. And bonus: if you put it in a saltwater bath for a few days, it will actually rust!

@jwetzel1492 posted:

I’d like to get a resin printer someday. I print in PLA right now. A nice trick I’ve found printing things for my locomotives: you can buy PLA filament that is 40% iron filings. It prints with a nice texture that hides layer lines. The grey naturally matches grey undercarriages. And bonus: if you put it in a saltwater bath for a few days, it will actually rust!

I would be extremely interested in this stuff. I'll search for some but do you know who makes it?

jwetzel1492, I downloaded your 4 parts from the link that you posted, however, none of the 4 stl files will open for me using Cura 4.10.0.  Can you please verify that your uploaded files are OK?  Thanks!

I was apple to load all 4 files with FreeCAD 0.19.

Jan