3rd Rail Blunami Conversion SP 4-10-2

At some point we will see the end of the ERR parts.  I hope Blunami will be considered for the next generation of 3rd Rail 3-rail engines as the out-of-the-box control system.

@BlueFeather posted:

At some point we will see the end of the ERR parts.  I hope Blunami will be considered for the next generation of 3rd Rail 3-rail engines as the out-of-the-box control system.

Blunami is a viable option for Diesels but won’t get wide acceptance in the three rail crowd for steam until Soundtraxx or some other DCC manufacturer includes synchronized puffing smoke. Given Scott says he won’t be making steam engines any more it may happen. Who knows.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Blunami is a viable option for Diesels but won’t get wide acceptance in the three rail crowd for steam until Soundtraxx or some other DCC manufacturer includes synchronized puffing smoke. Given Scott says he won’t be making steam engines any more it may happen. Who knows.

Pete

Well, without ERR, there's literally no other option I'm aware of besides conventional only, which is a non-starter for pretty much all 3-rail operators running scale models.

In the meantime, kudos to Tim and Brendan for showing what's possible right now.  Well done.

Good job! I bought a Blunami board and will most likely install it in a 3rd Rail M1b later this summer. It might be the best 3RS command upgrade option for me going forward. I don’t run smoke or electrocouplers so the lack of those specifically configured outputs is not a concern. The chuff triggering may not be a total showstopper. As much as I like crankpin synched chuff, I have quite a few engines that aren’t synched in that manner.

Sid brought over a nice 3rd Rail C&O Hudson with Blunami during my Train-a-Palooza open house and I was really impressed with the sound and control. The app seemed really responsive and the sound options are many and easy to access. There seemed to be a whole bunch of tuning options for control that I look forward to playing around with.

At one time, 3 rail was really far ahead of the hobby in easy to use command control and sound but it simply hasn’t kept up with modern times. The last remaining TMCC upgrade option is getting too expensive and is fading fast so I’m glad we have this option now.

Actually puffing smoke and electro couplers can easily be controlled with relays driven off the function outputs. The reed relays I use are rated for two amps contact current and 30ma coil current and cost a buck on the auction site that shall not be named.

Blunami is capable of far more features than Legacy or DCS. Just not synchronized smoke yet.

You will get better speed control by adding a DC regulator after the bridge. Available for peanuts. While Blunami has back EMF speed control, the speed will vary if voltage to the board varies. Also max voltage in is 26 volts. Running with 18-20 VAC RMS will exceed that number and risk damaging the board.

Many threads here on the DCC forum on how to do that.

Pete

Here are the photos of the conversion. The first two photos are a Bridge rectifier and other parts. Brendan usually does smaller conversions with the 2200 decoders. He would like to make some more modifications (better Speaker Baffle, electro coupler) down the road which I'm on board with.

He couldn't remove the smoke unit as this smoke unit was attached to the boiler shell, it's disconnected and I had no plans of running smoke on this engine at all. I like running smoke, I run the smoke for the other features like whistle steam and safety pop off which is a topic with visitors while running at local clubs. I'm not really interested in running smoke in 3rd Rail Engines. I test them when I get them to verify that they work. Then I don't run the smoke again.

Thanks for the pics. I run at fixed 18VAC so I’m thinking a bridge rectifier and filter cap will be fine. I believe this is what Sid runs. 18VAC RMS rectified and filtered will yield 24.452VDC so it’s safely below the max voltage spec.

Really looking forward to trying this out. Thanks to all you guys for sharing these early installs!

I forgot to mention the audio was very loud and crisp!

What features beyond what Legacy and PS-3 DCS offer?

@GGG posted:

What features beyond what Legacy and PS-3 DCS offer?

Whatever you want to install. It has 8 user programable feature outputs. Likely have to use Lionel or MTH smoke units but Blunami could run all the ones there is room for. Plus you could add animations like engineers waving or firemen shoveling coal or swinging bells.

Only limitation is your imagination up to 8 options.

18V RMS is 25.1V DC max so close. OK if you have fixed AC transformers. 5 amp regulators can be had for less than 4 bucks. Not worth blowing up a $200 Blunami.

Pete

@GGG posted:

What features beyond what Legacy and PS-3 DCS offer?

Even with my basic understanding, many. The 90 onboard whistles is already a major differentiator.

If you have never used DCC like myself, its can be a major learning curve. As Norm points out each sound has multiple variations you can pick and also modify. Also being able to couple a sound with a physical action like opening a coupler with the coupler clank sound or swinging bell in synchrony with the bell ring.

Pete

Just curious, That Sunset/3rd Rail model is of the 3 cylinder SP 4-10-2, so how did the "off-beat" 3 cylinder exhaust synchronization come out?

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

…I was really impressed with the sound and control. The app seemed really responsive and the sound options are many and easy to access. There seemed to be a whole bunch of tuning options for control that I look forward to playing around with.

Modeling in 2 rail, I tried Blunami when it first came out, then sold DCC.  Never looked back.  The options are better and easier to configure.  My opinion.

You won’t be disappointed, it’s great.

@Hot Water posted:

Just curious, That Sunset/3rd Rail model is of the 3 cylinder SP 4-10-2, so how did the "off-beat" 3 cylinder exhaust synchronization come out?

Chuff rate is adjustable with a CV. Pretty sure they don’t have one specific for a three cylinder engine if its not an even offset but 6 chuffs per rev is possible at 60 degree intervals.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Blunami is a viable option for Diesels but won’t get wide acceptance in the three rail crowd for steam until Soundtraxx or some other DCC manufacturer includes synchronized puffing smoke. Given Scott says he won’t be making steam engines any more it may happen. Who knows.

Bingo!  What the reluctance is to providing this seemingly simple update to the software is a total mystery to me!  The fact that some other Soundtraxx decoders like the Tsumani have the capability further baffles me!  Harry Henning asked them flat out and they stated they're not considering adding this.  I'm not about to become a Blunami cheerleader until that changes.

@Hot Water posted:

Just curious, That Sunset/3rd Rail model is of the 3 cylinder SP 4-10-2, so how did the "off-beat" 3 cylinder exhaust synchronization come out?

So it started out without a CV for Exhaust Control. It was set at 0 with the 3 chuffs enabled. It sounded off. We tried it around 50 for that CV and it sounded pretty good. A friend of mine who does HO is still trying to figure out the settings as we are trying ti replicate the sounds from an HO 4-10-2 that has a Soundtraxx decoder. I still have to Figure out more about this engine and I haven't done any other changes to the sounds or engines operations except modify the independent and Train Brake rate.

@Norton posted:

Blunami is a viable option for Diesels but won’t get wide acceptance in the three rail crowd for steam until Soundtraxx or some other DCC manufacturer includes synchronized puffing smoke. Given Scott says he won’t be making steam engines any more it may happen. Who knows.

Pete

Brendan is starting on my 44 Ton and 70 Ton from WBB. It has the right motor amps to do the conversion to blunami and it will use 2200s.

I'm planning on getting my 3rd Rail ATSF GP7s done and I have a SP SD7 and SD9 coming from them too.

For The Siemen Chargers, I'm gonna put Blue Rail with Loksound Charger Sounds

Blunami has the most features for sure. I have been using Bluetooth Lionchief in my Williams and RMT though. They don’t require DC conversion and many boards have cruise and outputs for couplers and smoke for less money than even the 2200s.

They will run off your smart device as well.

This Beep has Lionchief. Something to consider for your low end trains.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Blunami has the most features for sure. I have been using Bluetooth Lionchief in my Williams and RMT though. They don’t require DC conversion and many boards have cruise and outputs for couplers and smoke for less money than even the 2200s.

With the Lionel CAB3 download, you have a utility that you can run more than one at a time now as well.

I’m thinking I may not wait for my M1b to show up. I have a few potential candidates on hand - 3rd Rail Decapod, 3rd Rail N1, and an MTH H10 that I converted to ERR but doesn’t get run often.

The 3rd Rails would be cool to test low speed running with but still have the old 4 wire tethers so I won’t be able to get too fancy with lighting. The MTH has an 8 or 10 wire tether (can’t remember) so I can play around a bit. All have been 3RSed with Pittman motors and no smoke. I could also check out the PRR whistles they used. Still trying to decide hmmm…

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

I’m thinking I may not wait for my M1b to show up. I have a few potential candidates on hand - 3rd Rail Decapod, 3rd Rail N1, and an MTH H10 that I converted to ERR but doesn’t get run often.

The 3rd Rails would be cool to test low speed running with but still have the old 4 wire tethers so I won’t be able to get too fancy with lighting. The MTH has an 8 or 10 wire tether (can’t remember) so I can play around a bit. All have been 3RSed with Pittman motors and no smoke. I could also check out the PRR whistles they used. Still trying to decide hmmm…

I think the 4-10-2 has an 8 Pin Tether. He reused the tether for the conversion.

Started in on the H10 today. It’s got the original 10 pin tether. My bridge rectifier and 470mF cap is giving me around 25.5VDC at 19VAC track power. That’s what my PH 135s put out when not loaded. I’m thinking this is 19VAC RMS x 1.414 minus the forward bias voltage of the diodes in the bridge. At least that’s what I think I was taught….? Verified with the trusty Fluke 87!

I wish they would have given some better mounting options. Right now I’m printing a stand-off for the 4408. There are two small holes in the board but I’m not sure they will work.

Norm. I put a blunami in the PRR Mikado I got from you , I did have to mill out the brass sheet under the coal load so I could get a better range. I replaced it with some sheet styrene and a new coal load. I wanted more range than I could get at home about 40' so I could use it on the FCCT layout here in Rochester wich sometimes gets very large. I also did a K line B&A berk.  are you using a resin printer ?  and would you considering sharing your file with me for your mount. I have printed a few things on my Ele Goo mars that was given to me but have yet to design anything of my own ( baby steps) .  thanks Rick

I am printing a small platform for it to sit on, nothing terribly exciting. This will be a filament print. Was hoping to have it done already but I broke my extruder. I’m really looking forward to playing with it and I'm hoping the diecast shell doesn’t hose the reception.

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

I am printing a small platform for it to sit on, nothing terribly exciting. This will be a filament print. Was hoping to have it done already but I broke my extruder. I’m really looking forward to playing with it and I'm hoping the diecast shell doesn’t hose the reception.

The shell makes a significant difference. I put a 4408 in an MTH Hudson shell and barely got 12 feet of range using an iPad as the controller. Moving to the tender under the plastic coal load the range is over 40 feet and goes through concrete walls and multiple floors.

Pete

Initial bench tests were very successful last night. I was finally able to get the 4408 mounted after getting my printer fixed up (Creality has a nice metal extruder replacement/upgrade for $10). I made a standoff platform and an adapter plate so I could use the small holes for mounting the board without tape. The adapter plate lets me use M1 screws to hold the board to the platform without crunching the components on the underside.

Sorry to poach this thread but after seeing the video with the nice slow start sequence I had to give this a try.

The motor control is ERR like but with full tuning access. I didn’t play with the tuning but did try the accel/decel settings. Tapping the throttle will give you a roll speed which is nice. I only ran it on my bench but found the speed control to be very smooth and responsive. The app actually shows the voltage supply readout. On my bench setup I have 16VAC on the track and the app showed around 20VDC and change max.

I got the chuff adjusted pretty close for now, with the setting somewhere around 68. This engine has an 18:1 gear ratio with a baby Pittman and ran pretty well with ERR. Wonder how it calculates chuff, maybe commutator pulses? I found settings for articulated and 3 cylinder chuff since I was wondering. Didn’t see anything for compound though. I will try the DDE stuff when I get it on the layout.

The sounds are a bit dry until you add reverb. I found a bit of reverb on chuff, whistle, etc., added some depth. Sounds are loud and clear and as you can see in the photos I am using a single Lionel Fat Boy that’s good for 1W but I may look for a similar speaker with higher output since the Blunami says it has can do 3W.

Next up is wire up and configure the lighting.

My Base 3 is in and I’ll probably get it later this week. I am thinking it may stay new in the box for a little while though!