O GAUGE VERSION OF THE TRACK PLAN:

Working on a version of this same track plan in O using FasTrack, with minimum curvature of O36.  Uses much O48 and O60 turnouts.

The grade is a constant 4%, reaching an elevation of 5.5".

The tracks are close to the edge of the 5x9 surface, 1/4" at the left and right, and 1/8" at the top and bottom.  I show a frame/fascia of 1x4 or 1x3 in brown.

 There isn't enough space to close a figure-8 in the lower loop, due to the 1-3/8" roadbed-trimmed sections needed with the O60 turnouts.

CONSIDERING GRADES AND EASEMENTS on the FASTRACK O-GAUGE LAYOUT

With the two turnouts at the start and top of the grade at 2%, using the convenient Woodland Scenics inclines:

• Leading 14.5" at 2% (2/96) == 14.5" * 2/96 = 0.302"
• 4% grade, 104" at (4/96) == 104 * 4/96 = 4.334"
• Cresting 14.5' at 2% (2/96) == 14.5" * 2/96 = 0.302"

Total rise with these grade easements = about 5" (4.94").  I feel more comfortable with the turnouts on 2% grade, and the grade easements are good for operation.

When building the layout, you do not have to worry about these precise fractions, you simply use the inclines under the tracks, and cut them to fit each section length.  Easy!

Considering Two-Train operations on the O-Gauge FasTrack trackplan:

The grade up to the elevated loop is single track.   A train can easily pass another on the lower O36 loop on the long hidden passing/staging track. 

At the elevated tracks, the passing track here is short, more like a run-around track for switching.   However, if the mine is located on the left spur, then the passing track and the spur running right can hold a waiting train, which backs down the spur to clear the turnout.   When the second train climbs the loop and takes the turnouts over the bridge and around the curve; as it clears the easement turnout, the waiting train can then proceed.

The length of a train that can stand and clear the easement turnout is 76+".   So that is about the limit of train length for two-train operation, at least one train needs to be this length, the second train can be a couple feet longer and still be able to pass at the top elevated, and at the bottom.   The Lionel catalog states that their C&O Lionchief train set is 54" long.

The right side elevated spur can be built without the lighted bumper, and considered a connection to another RR, generating cars and trains.  The spur could be used as an interchange track.

CONSIDERING WIRING AND CONTROL

The layout can be wired conventionally with blocks and toggle-switches, but with two trains running, the frequency of toggle-switching and turnout switching would be a challenge - fun at first, but then would get old.   So I recommend LionChief or TMCC/Legacy or DCS command control for this layout.

I am tempted to recommend command-control turnouts, to be controlled by a TMCC/Legacy hand-held controller.  Running LionChief trains with the universal remote, then one operator has two controllers to fumble with.   Perhaps a row of Fastrack turnout switches would be more convenient, with the universal remote in hand.   Certainly much more work and hassle running wires to the many turnouts, to build it this way, compared to command-controlled turnouts.   Perhaps a bank of six turnout switches for the visible O36 loop, a bank of five switches for the visible elevated trackage, and then a bank of four switches for the hidden passing-track&staging (including the turnout on the 2% easement beginning the grade).

Nice plan.

I fiddled with it before realizing it was S gauge, so glad to see it in O.

@GVDobler posted:

Nice plan.

I fiddled with it before realizing it was S gauge, so glad to see it in O.

If you want to fiddle some more, here is the track plan in AnyRail.  -Ken

I was curious to see what it would look like with an outside loop of O48 on the level center area.   The grade is all O60 at 4% (4/96).

The dimensions are 6' x 9'8".

I look at it and wonder if it would be better and prettier at 6'x10'.

Revised as a 6'x10':  staging tracks are longer, and the grade is actual 4% (4/100):

The 4% grade is O60, and the elevated is O48.  So an O42 loco can run the outer loop and up the grade to the elevated.  But only one return loop for reversing, the other is in the O36.  Another variation might delete the O36 inner loop and make a reverse loop out of the O48.

Here with the O36 inner loop removed, and no industry tracks added yet:

Thanks Ken

My trial version of Anyrail6 won't open the file but I saved it anyway. Scarm trial allows more pieces to be in play, so I've been working to recreate it in that program. 

Can you post a rendering view?

@Ken-Oscale posted:

Here with the O36 inner loop removed, and no industry tracks added yet:

Uhm, doesn't the reverse loop need to be facing the other way? As-is you'd have to back into it

@BurkusCircus52 posted:

Uhm, doesn't the reverse loop need to be facing the other way? As-is you'd have to back into it

Right you are, thanks!  Corrected:

@GVDobler posted:

Thanks Ken

My trial version of Anyrail6 won't open the file but I saved it anyway. Scarm trial allows more pieces to be in play, so I've been working to recreate it in that program. 

Can you post a rendering view?

AnyRail just sent out an update to registered users, and I created this most recent with that update.  So the older versions will not open the most recent.  There is no provision to save a file with the older version number.

What do you mean by a "rendering view"?  I can give you a 3D image, but that does not have the data usually associated with a rendering view.   Is there some part of the layout that is not clear enough to rebuild in SCARM, and generate a 3D image from that?

NOTE:  We have had this discussion here on the forum before:  SCARM uses the dimensions for track sections as published by Lionel, while the AnyRail publisher actually measured the track sections manufactured in China.   I had a discussion with the AnyRail publisher about this, and it is on record on that forum.  There are small differences, as I recall, almost 1/32".   That seems like a small amount, but over multiple track sections, it can add up, to yield a difference of an 1/8" or more.   These layouts have many small sections (unfortunately).  So sometimes a SCARM layout will need to be modified in order to close in the software (but not in reality).

FasTrack, with its ridged integrated roadbed, is less forgiving than track systems with joiners or track pins.   Those systems have much more flexibility (certainly with flextrack) in making good enough joints, and by making custom-cut sections.   FasTrack can be stretched a bit, but it does not like it.   But it absolutely CANNOT be compressed.   So when I am working with FasTrack, I am careful to use very small tolerances, and to always have variances be in stretching by small amounts, and never compressing.

The S gauge FasTrack (which I like) uses conventional rail joiners, encased in a ridged plastic frame to keep the joiners from expanding with use over time [An idea pioneered by Kato 30 years ago with their N Unitrack and Unijoiners].   But, the roadbed grips together more strongly than the O gauge.   Compression is never possible, and stretching is very difficult.   The plastic coupling might need to be modified to even allow a stretch of 1/16".  The molding seems newer and crisper.

Here are some pics of my shipment of S FasTrack that just arrived:

Looking at the pic of the joint between two sections, you can see how perfect the connection is, both in the road bed and in the rail.  Tight tolerances!

The thickness of S FasTrack is right at 1/2".

O48 minimum version with two industry spurs:

Here is the O36 version in 5x9 with the terrain levels at approx 5.5", 4", and 2":

O36 5x9 with some buildings:

Perhaps two tunnels:

Thinking about a stream:

Thanks Ken

I guess 3D is what I meant. Your explanation of the track gaps in the software was helpful. I often see a gap when making simple loops with the same track on both sides I figured it was the software. I use Scarm, but probably similar errors.

I'm trying to stay 9' x 5-6' with the 9' side absolute. So the 036 and 048 fastrack seems to work out fine. Although I'm thinking Gargraves track and Ross switches.

Always enjoy your work. Thanks

Thanks GVDobler, I appreciate your comments and discussion!

Here added some stream work, culverts, a few trees, and bridge details:

For fun, re-purposing Lionel's Granite Run Quarry Set to handle ore between the elevated mine and the smelter.

I added two sets to work their way back and forth between the mine and smelter.   They fit on the spurs, but could be run without the little caboose and water car, adding two cars to each set (there is an expansion set with four more ore cars.

Fun to run these back and forth, and pass each other either on the high passing track, or using the hidden passing track.   Then run other trains in between runs of these two short trains.

The little side dump gondolas actually dump manually, so a loader could be contrived in the mine, and then actually load and then dump the cars.

I made an ore dump bin and an overhead crane, to lift ore from the bin into the smelter.  A few more trees scattered about, and the classic rotating beacon on one of the high points:

Roads added:

The Cartersville area, in the NorthWest corner of Georgia in the Etowah Valley, in which I live, happens to be rich in mineral deposits:  gold, silver, iron manganese, ocher, aluminum, barium, hermatite.  Gold, silver, iron, manganese, and ocher have been mined in the past, with ocher, manganese, barium, and iron being mined now, in modest quantities, so far as I can tell. 

There was Cooper's Alatoona iron ore furnace located in the area before and during the Civil War, with rail service on the Etowah RR (tiny 1.75 mile mine RR, with two 1 mile spurs up the mountains to two mines) connecting with the Western&Atlantic.  The town of Etowah sprung up around the furnace, which was razed by Sherman's army during the war, and never rebuilt.  The furnace still stands, and is a historic landmark that you can visit and tour, not that much to see now.

So borrowing placenames for the RR:  

• Bartow Iron Mine
• town of Etowah
• Pumpkinvine Creek
• Cooper Furnace
• Norfolk Southern (because of the neat rearing horse shield) or Western & Atlantic as the mainline
• Etowah RR as the branchline serving the mine

SIDE-BY-SIDE COMPARISON OF THE TWO 5X9 ETOWAH VALLEY RR LAYOUTS:

Similar, but different.

Its an artifact of the web server compression software that makes the S-Gauge tracks look more precise than the O-Gauge;  not so in the original illustrations.

BUILDING AN INTERMEDIATE CONSTRUCTION PHASE-1:

I had to rework the left-bottom run that will be the grade up, and cut-in the crossover on the bottom-left.

I received my first S-Gauge loco yesterday, a FlyerChief NKP Berkshire.   I didn't want to wait for the Northern to be released, and I will need two locos eventually.  Even with the lack of wire handrails, it looks pretty good.

A lot of cab overhang on the S40 curves.  That is a looong tender.  The coupling between tender and loco could be closer.

An Intermediate Phase-1 for the O-Gauge, is not as good, the cross-overs between loops run the same direction, as does the return loop(s), so a backing move must be done occasionally.

Proceeding with my build-out:  I am happy with my loco so far, and pleased with S-FasTrack.  The next track order that I just placed with Charles Ro, gets me this much of the layout:

Four command control turnouts, so I will wire in my Legacy to control the turnouts, and use the Flyerchief remote for the loco control.

A short video of my FlyerChief Berkshire on my tiny test track.  It staggers briefly over the turnout at its slowest speed about 1/3 of the time.  Otherwise flawless operation.

The loco has pickup on one side only on the lead truck, traction tires on both side rear drivers, and pickups on all 4 wheels on the trailing truck.  So if the traction tires lift all but the lead two drivers above the rails, the worst case for power pickup on a single side, is the lead driver and two pickups on the trailing truck:  3 points of contact.

The slowest speed is good.  Top speed is almost enough to leave the tracks on this S40/R20 loop.  Sound quality and volume are both good.  Smoke is excellent, though you don't see it on this vid.

Ordered one PSX-AR-AC auto-reverser from Tony's Train Exchange, to play and experiment with.   Looks to be simple to use, two wires as input, two as output.  Detects polarity (phase) of the AC and reverses.

Ken, I am surprised to hear there is a pickup problem with your Berkshire. Mine has run flawlessly as has my FlyerChief Northern.

When you get your PSX-AR-AC there is one more step I recommend before final installation. Locate terminal block J6 along the edge of the board, it is used to set the trip current value. The default value with no jumpers is 3.8A. I find this value too low for running S gauge trains. Connecting a jumper from terminals J6-1 to J6-2 and a second jumper from J6-3 to J6-4 raises the trip current setting to 8.9A, the highest available. The explanation of this is in a small box in the right hand margin of p9 in the instructions. Pretty much everything else in the manual applies only to the DCC version.

@AmFlyer posted:

Ken, I am surprised to hear there is a pickup problem with your Berkshire. Mine has run flawlessly as has my FlyerChief Northern.

When you get your PSX-AR-AC there is one more step I recommend before final installation. Locate terminal block J6 along the edge of the board, it is used to set the trip current value. The default value with no jumpers is 3.8A. I find this value too low for running S gauge trains. Connecting a jumper from terminals J6-1 to J6-2 and a second jumper from J6-3 to J6-4 raises the trip current setting to 8.9A, the highest available. The explanation of this is in a small box in the right hand margin of p9 in the instructions. Pretty much everything else in the manual applies only to the DCC version.

Thanks Tom, I noticed your jumper in one of your pics, appreciate the suggestion, will do! -Ken

Pics of the FlyerChief Berk:

You can see the height of this loco:  about 3 3/4" clearance from track base to clear the top.  Looks like my planning will be good for this loco anyway.

The tape measure is right up against the edge of the roadbed.  At S40/R20 the overhang looks to be just over 1/4" for this loco, extending beyond the roadbed.   Parallel center rail spacing of 3-3/4" would be generous.  The minimum I work with on O clearance for O36 and wider diameter is 4.25", but prefer 4.5", but up to 5" is OK for appearance.

Here is the gap between loco and tender, again on R20/S40 curves.  Could be tighter by 1/4" easily, but I suspect Lionel went with the larger gap so you could get your fingers in there to help couple.  I did not see any convenient drawbar mounting holes to close this gap, like I have done on my earlier O Lionchief steamers.

I took a close inspection of the loco, and with a flashlight, was able to see that the wheels of the leading truck were not turning as the loco moved.  Not at all!  They were just skidding around the layout.

So after lubricating, and trying to break them in a bit rotating by hand, I suspected that the pickup wiper might be pressing too hard on the axle - it even looked a bit cockeyed, almost bent.  So with a tool, I gently worked it a bit.   Not sure if it is making contact now, I did not test with a meter.   But, the wheel and axle are now turning as the loco rolls.

And, the loco is no longer stalling on the turnout at its slowest speed.   Not even occasionally!  

I ran it for more than an hour without a problem - nice!   At high speed, the loco and S FasTrack are much quieter than O FasTrack.    Very quiet, maybe 15% of the O gauge sound at maximum speed.   That is interesting, as the S roadbed is as tall as O, with an echo chamber inside.  But the rails are solid, rather than hollow.   

Anyway, I would not have expected it to be so quiet, that is a bonus.  I did not think that I cared much about the O FasTrack sound, after many years of train running.  But after running the S FasTrack, I appreciate the decrease in noise a lot.

I played with the LionChief app, setting the momentum, top speed, and whistle and bell pitch.  That was fun!  Its a sweet-running beast!  I reduced the background chuffing volume, as the FasTrack noise is so much quieter.  Nice effect, my wife doesn't hear the train running from across the house as with O gauge, just the whistle.

After a couple more hours of running the loco at all speeds - zero problems!

Great headlight!  Good sounds, very smooth running, good smoke.

My 2nd order of S FasTrack arrived this morning, to build this intermediate layout for testing and evaluation:

Great you were able to find and fix the issue with the Berkshire. The S gauge plastic based track is for sure far quieter than the O gauge equivalent.

As I am coming to S gauge from the O gauge world, I was interested in the relative proportions of S to O.   S at 1:64 is 1.333 times smaller than O at 1:48 (48*1.333==64). 

Put another way, S-dimension*64 == real-dimension == O-dimension * 48.   S-dimension* 64/48 (1.333) == O-dimension

S40/R20 curves are the equivalent of O53.33 (about O54).   S54/R27 is the equivalent of O72.

The 5x9 S layout is the equivalent of 6'8" x 12' in O.

I noticed something interesting about the S FasTrack turnouts: they have a "gate" in the frog, that switches position as the points change.   The flangeway is unusually wide in these turnouts, so no doubt, the addition of this gate enhances the reliable operation of these turnouts.  I imagine that this was widely known, just new to me.

I have the four turnouts installed, and have been running my train through them (the Berk and one boxcar, everything I own for now😁).  No problems, very smooth.

One of the four turnouts switches reluctantly, I have been trying to loosen it up by breaking it in, some improvement.   Another of the turnouts does not switch at all, probably a loose connection - I have not yet diagnosed. 

50% of my turnouts received have problems "out of the box" with remote operation, not so good.   I have not yet connected them to Legacy and tested them under command control.

An observation about my batch of S FasTrack 10" straights.   These pieces can't be connected to each other, or other sections!   The pressure required to push the connections in is stronger than the plastic, which deforms.   The railjoiner fishplates are aligned properly.   

So I have taken to shaving a bit off the inside edges of the "receiving" holder, which fixes the problem.   I will try filing-down the "bulb" of plastic that enters the receiver.   It is shaped as a circle, but could be tear-drop shaped, to facilitate entering the receiver with a bit of a point, while not reducing the pressure holding the sections together.

Some of the S54/R27 curves are very difficult to connect, but not as bad as the 10" straights.

The 1-3/4" pieces are easy to connect, as is the one 4.5" section.   The S40/R20 curves are OK, some joints are difficult.

Planning the next phase of my build-out.   After I receive and test my reversing unit (in transit at this time), I will send in my third FasTrack order for these additional sections.   Also dependent on resolving the issues with my turnouts responding to the turnout remote.