6-28220 CSX SD60 ERR cruise upgrade (Smoke problems)

That is an ACREG that controls Heat Element.  First is it receiving power via the smoke switch.  If you wired up correctly, it should still work.  Make sure you have serial data going to it and also Code the R2LC correctly for a diesel with Smoke.  G

Since this is a conventional locomotive, one wonders what regulator is in it.  It's obviously not currently wired to serial data, there is no serial data available in the stock configuration.  There is no parts listing for this model on the Lionel site, which makes identifying the regulator a bit of an issue.  It's probably similar to the one in the Hot Box Reefer, another conventional item with fan driven smoke and a regulator module.

If this is conventional to start that would explain it.  G

Well, that model number maps to a conventional locomotive.

CSX Conventional SD60 #3329 SKU: 6-28220

I assume if the number is correct, he started with a conventional model.

I don't recall exactly how the regulator is wired, but I believe the conventional ones just set a fixed smoke output, so if it's powered, it should just smoke.  I know the Hot Box Reefer converted to command works just fine, and I did nothing to the smoke regulator wiring.

Okay, sorry for the delayed reply. Ive been suffering from some bad allergies.

GGG and John, thank you for replying.

John, correct! That is the conventional unit I have.

The smoke unit itself has a 5v regulator on the PCB to keep the fan from over-rev, but I have not removed the wrap from the mystery board yet.

Going to put a multimeter on the smoke output to see if its the ERR board doing it or the mystery regulator.

The two have different functions.  The mystery board is a conventional AC Regulator, and it supplies AC power to the smoke element.  The on-board regulator circuit is just to supply 5V to the fan.

This is the diagram I did before I started. I am sorry for the terrible handwriting. My hands shake terribly at 37.

Okay, after a few readings, it looks like the ERR Cruise board is pulsing 3-5v when its in neutral. This is conventional.

In command mode, the smoke doesnt turn on at all (zero voltage output) until driving. It pulses 4v inconsistently. When I adjust the volume, it also changes the smoke on/off.

Looks like it is back to direct wired.

OK, I think we have the problem in hand.

Try reconfiguring the ERR Cruise board, but make SURE after setting the TMCC ID, you press the AUX1 key followed by the "8" key, then switch back to run mode.

The pulsing indicates you have the R4LC configured for a strobe, and the smoke won't work very well at all with that setting.

That was my first post.  Set the R2LC code:-) G

GGG posted:

That was my first post.  Set the R2LC code:-) G

I figured that may not have registered, sure sounds like he has a strobe output.

Unless the numbers are switched on my cab1, I swear I pressed 8 each time. Hell I set 4 for giggles and put it back to see if it was a misprint. I'll give it another go when I get to work.

Sorry for the long delay. Work is busy here at the port

So, it seems apparent that the ERR cruise commander doesnt like something about this whole setup.

I put the smoke unit back on the feature output. 0v applied on feature pin. Aux 9 for "smoke boost" does nothing.

Now comes the bizarre part. I shunt a 20v lamp in parallel with smoke unit leads. Power output of 10v.

I am thinking this:

1. Mystery regulator doesnt have enough resistance load to trick ERR to turn on.
2. Bypass mystery regulator all together and feed direct from ERR feature.

Thoughts?

One more thing. The above is all in command mode. Conventional still strobes the smoke output at 3-4v. Only enough to spin the fan, but not get element hot. Once I attach lamp, voltage increases and smoke unit works proper but still pulses in neutral.

Just put a .01uf cap across the smoke output from the Cruise Commander to ground, that will give the triac the load it's looking for.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Just put a .01uf cap across the smoke output from the Cruise Commander to ground, that will give the triac the load it's looking for.

Electrolytic or ceramic?

A .01uf cap will be a ceramic cap.

Thanks. Will dig through my "Bucket-o-caps" and give that a whirl.

John, seems my curiosity got the best of me. I opened pandora's box (The regulator). I spotted a wire just dangling in there cut short. I know I didnt cut it, so I opened it. I was going to solder the cap to the leads of the board and seal it back up so I didnt have anything flapping about inside.

I do hope the attachments are legible enough. If not, Second image has four wires. +H / -H / + / - / S are the markings for the wire. The brown wire you can see that is cut is going to the S terminal. Is this a serial input?

The brown wire that is cut is the serial data wire.  Without that, the regulator gets no commands from the R2LC.

So it would be safe to reconnect this to the same data signal the sound gets? Again this engine was originally a conventional.

I'm assuming since it was conventional, that wasn't connected as there was no serial data to connect it to.  I'd give it a try on pin 24 of the R4LC and see if that solves your issue.  I seriously doubt it'll hurt anything, though depending on the firmware on the processor of the regulator, it may or may not make a difference.

You're saying that I should NOT use the sound serial wire?

The "sound" serial wire connects to pin 24 of the R4LC, you can use it.

Thank you John, I will give that a whirl. Let you know in a few minutes

Something is not right and I don't have the patience right now to finger this out. The CC does not want to cycle directions. I am going to take the power feed from the smoke controller and direct wire it again.

Okay. That tears it... I dont have another R4LC to test with and this thing just refuses to operate now. Only works in locked forward conventional.

Okay, stripped out everything. CC is fubar. Have to try another R4LC chip from a donor.

After a few hours away from this project, it looks like it is the R4LC board that is the culprit for the lack of function. After throwing a test board on from another ERR board, it is behaving properly. I'll talk to ERR to get another.

As far as the smoke unit goes, I really want it to work. Should I perhaps just wire the regulator to ground and 3rd, while running the serial only to the CC instead of the serial + power?

Well, you could power the smoke regulator from the smoke output of the R4LC, that would allow you to switch it using the remote.

I tried that and even with the capacitor modification it does not turn on or output enough voltage.

I think I am going to just keep the smoke unit conventional wired at this point with on/off switch.

GGG and John. Although this did not ultimately wind up the way I wanted, it works. l Thank you both for assisting, but I will tear into this another day. For now it having sound and running in forward is the most vital as we let kids run our trains.

All this fancy electronic talk is making my eyes cross.

Change the resistance of the smoke element to 20-27ohms and power it directly from the ERR board.  Would be like the older 27ohm fan driven smoke units.  G

GGG thats worth a thought. But the engine has just come from a show at a kids museum. The ERR CC held up wonderfully to three solid hours of torture despite its apparent problem. Smoke was turned off :/ but the museum was against it.