Activating vintage trackside accessories on ballasted and screwed track

Michael,

Circuitron makes numerious opto-electronic detection systems using photo-electric
cells that you can insert between the ties to detect when a train is passing. I had
the same situation that you are having now, and used their DT-4 card (four circuits)
Checkout their catalog. See if it works 4 U.

http://www.circuitron.com/index_files/cat/301CAT.pdf

Joe

I use insulated track sections which can directly (common ground wiring) or indirectly (relay, RasberryPi, etc) trigger accessories.

I use lots of insulated track sections for activating accessories and trackside signals on my PW-style layout. They work great. I also use a few relays, notably on the 153 block signal. Btw, I solder all my connections on the insulated track pieces.

Thanks to all who have replied to this point.  Joe, I gave a quick look at the Circuitron website and it looks like a fine company with user friendly advice. I think I'll be spending some time reading about their products.

As to the insulated track sections, I might go with this route depending upon the cost of the more advanced electronic options. 

Always appreciate the advice on the ORG forums.  Thanks again,

Michael

The Lionel 153IR send an infrared signal across the track which is reflected back by a passing train. It comes with a connection to clip directly onto Lionel tubular track. Looks good too. I've just bought a 153 Block Signal and a 151 Semaphore and I'm planning on experimenting with using the 153IR instead of the supplied 153C contactor.

http://www.lionel.com/products...-controller-6-14111/

And here's a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0mXmPWTLIs

As long as you don't mind the look of the Lionel 153IR alongside the track, they work quite well.

I use the insulated rail method exclusively, just because (1) I'm an old relay type of guy, and (2) that method is the most reliable and flexible in terms of being able to activate and hold a condition, ability to create slow-activate - slow/release situations and the ability to eliminate chattering/flickering of accessories by using D-C relays with filter capacitors.

Thanks for the additional suggestions.  Helpful to see the Lionel video on use of the 153IR unit.  Actually, I like the look of the electrical cabinetry...it's the price for multiple units that does not impress me.  I may go with one or more of these depending upon the accessory and scene, but I think I may use the insulated rail for most of the accessories. 

I am also interested in use of other electronic items with the insulated rail to minimize the chatter of many of the vintage Lionel accessories.  Arthur, can you provide more details on these items (relays/capacitors)?

Thanks,

Michael

Forum Sponsor ZStuff sells optical sensors that are more scale like that the Lionel 153ir. Mth also makes their version of an IR sensor the Itad (infrared track activation device).

Michael Pags posted:

I am also interested in use of other electronic items with the insulated rail to minimize the chatter of many of the vintage Lionel accessories.  Arthur, can you provide more details on these items (relays/capacitors)?

Funny you should mention insulated rail actuators.

Insulated Track Signal Driver

I also sell a kit eight of these you assemble, they're only $8/ea in kit form.

John, this device looks promising and very reasonably priced.  I have some further info and thoughts. 

After considering my layout, vintage accessories, and interests, most probably I will link the 153 block signals to my switches for sidings to highlight the position of the switch.  I am fairly certain this is possible, and it eliminates the need for trackside activation.  I have several units of the 145 gateman and 152 crossing gate, but will probably use only 2 of each due to space limitations (even though these are noisy and not to scale, gotta have them - grandkids love em).  In each location, I will link the gateman and crossing gate to work concurrently.  So in the end, I will probably need only two activation mechanisms for the gateman and crossing gates. I also like to have these activated before the train reaches the units so that they are in operation by the time the train is there.  It appears that the 30100 Insulated Track Signal Device will do the trick.

Question: I think I read someplace that it is possible to eliminate the chatter of the solenoids in these units.  True?  Does the 30100 accomplish this? 

Thanks,

Michael

Yep, one significant benefit of the track sensor was specifically to eliminate contact bounce chatter issues.  You can use a plain AC relay if you don't worry about contact bounce.  However, my goal with this design was to use very low current to activate the relay to minimize the power consumption as well as any arcing as the insulated rail section is entered.

You can read the genesis of the 30100 in this albeit long but recent thread. 

https://ogrforum.com/...-based-sensor?page=1

As you can see, the 30100 (aka ITSD) was developed with a lot of input from the OGR community.  In addition you can see exactly what you're getting with component-level drawings/schematics.  The sometimes overlooked benefit is if you have a question about how to apply it, there are a lot of guys here on OGR - including GRJ of course - that can help.  

Stan and GRJ,

Thanks for the link to the thread on this issue. Yes, quite long, but interesting. I seem to recall seeing it, but not going very far as this was not on my radar at the time. Well now it is, and I am certainly going to purchase these units.  Just might be back with questions when I get to install them.

Thanks again,

Michael

Glad you found it useful, and by all means, any questions you know where we live!

Sorry for this very delayed post on this thread, but I have been out of the country for several months and only now returning to the layout and this issue.  Having fun again!  I purchased 4 of the 30100 units and just test-wired one on a work bench area to see how it operates.  I can see the benefit of the relay function for trackside accessories with multiple lights like the 153 block signal, but how does this relay differ in function from using just an insulated rail to activate a simple trackside accessory like a 252 crossing gate or 145 gateman?  Does the contact bounce refer to the intermittent conductivity of rolling stock across the insulated section of track or the solenoid noise from these moving accessories?  If the former (and now that's what I think), is there any way to eliminate the latter?  Not a big deal, but just wondering.

Thanks,

Michael

Using the relay method, like the 30100, means less current flows through the wheel axles; that is, the relay contacts do the heavy-lifting in terms of carrying the current.  Consequently you should see less sparking and fewer accumulated "pits" or spots on the rails where the arcing occurs from wheel to track.

As you say, the "chatter" reduction/elimination in the 30100 refers to the contact bounce of the wheels making intermittent contact with the rail.  This typically occurs as the consist enters or exits the insulated-rail section because that's when you may only have one or just a few axles bridging the outer rails and hence more chances to lose contact.

I believe what you mean by the latter "chatter" is the iconic buzzing sound from AC-operated solenoid mechanisms.  In this case the solenoid is typically spring-loaded and as the AC voltage cycles 60 times/sec, the solenoid voltage collapses to zero at that rate (well, twice that rate) at which time the spring pulls back the solenoid pin until the voltage builds up again.  So the chatter is the sound of the solenoid pin/rod vibrating in and out.  As suggested in earlier posts, you might consider using a DC power source to eliminate this type of "chatter".  There are some accessories that depend on this type of AC voltage chatter - such as vibrating platforms (horse corral) or some rotating searchlights.  But if your accessories are DC-compatible, you can pick up a suitable DC-output adapter (a.k.a. wall-wart) for maybe $5 or so.

Stan

Thanks for very helpful reply. Decades ago I triggered these vintage trackside accessories with the classical 153C contact switch so I never experienced the issues using the insulated rail method. I now understand the issue of the contact bounce using that method and that the 30100 will avoid it. And yes, I may look into a dc power source for these accessories. Will not use on cattle car (which I have) as you note. It's a funky and temperamental unit but grandkids love it. 

Thanks again

Michael

I covered the waterfront on this subject in an article published in 2008. Can send to you via email if helpful. Like many forum members, I have used many types successfully. Each has its own pluses and minuses.