Adding a second MTH DCS WIU/TIU to my layout - need help

Could you accomplish the same thing with toggle switches and just use the one TIU.  You basically just need to power down the rest of your layout channels so that Fixed One is the only powered channel that’s on. Your programming track needs to be on Fixed 1 with whatever’s there now. Then you need  One toggle for the programming track and another to shut everything on the rest of the channel off. After the engines added. Just flip the rest of the channels on and run it on to the layout.  Relays work even better seeing they can be mounted right near the terminal strip. Just make sure you don’t use track power to do the switching portion.

Sorry, that won't work for me. I have 2 WIU and 2 TIU.  I am using all 4 TIU channels to power my layout.  So, adding a second TIU was the best option.  Yes, I know it is a lot of cost for just a siding but I have everything now.

What I did not ask was can I use my I pad to add the second WIU or do I need to use the remote?  The instructions to add a WIU are all written to use the remote.  I started the TIU addition process with my I pad by changing the address to 02.

Dave C has the right idea.  When you add an engine my understanding is it's tied to the TIU you used to add it.  So I think you'd need to add it again to the other one to run it on the layout.  Just because you bought the TIU doesn't mean you have to use it.  I just have a separate track I use to load new locos and I turn off the other blocks on that channel when I'm adding.  Just like Dave C suggested.

You never mentioned running it  in Super Mode. Even though you are using only I channel on the second TIU for your programming track. That seems like the easiest solution. Barry’s books should cover all the steps required to set it up this way.

That's true you could run them in super mode.

Running in Super-TIU mode brings in a number of extra wrinkles, something to consider before jumping into that pond.

I appreciate the replies. Super Mode may be the right solution for my setup.

My problem is I can't seem to connect the second TIU to the MTH network created by the first TIU.  The second WIU has its red/purple WIU light flashing.  I assume that is the condition it should be in prior to connection.  The second WIU is in Home mode. I press the WPS button on the first WIU, then the new WIU.  I wait for the white WPS lights to stop flashing. Then, I open my settings and go to my Wifi list.  The original WIU/TIU always connects and its WPS light shuts off.  Nothing happens with the new WIU/TIU.  I have even turned off the Wifi on my I-pad while both WIU's have their WPS lights in a steady state.  Once I turn the MTH Wifi on in the Settings the original TIU automatically connects.  The new TIU does not.

I have even pressed the reset button on the new WIU for ten seconds and unplugged it to insure it is in factory reset condition.  Still get the same results.  What am I missing?

Note, when I first tried this process a couple of days ago I had the new TIU in MTH mode.  The new WIU/TIU created its own MTH WIFI network.  Since then, I have moved the button to Home mode and reset the WIU. I don't think this is the source of my problem as that MTH Wifi network is no longer in my list of Wifi networks, but just thought I should mention this.

John, I also have the Wifi setup and operate in Super mode. I bought the first module just to try on the mainline. It worked as advertised. I eventually picked up another one to cover the rest of the layout. Followed the instructions and it hooked up without an issue. I didn’t own a fancy phone at the time and just used an I Pad. Just didn’t care for it for how I run trains. They sat dormant for years and I decided to give it another go when I got a new phone. My initial WIU functions fine. My second one only has 1 light that lights up and can’t connect. Like you I tried the reset with no luck.  I know a lot of runners like the new WIFI way of running trains. It’s just not for me. It’s just to frustrating. You don’t know if the unit has an issue or it’s something on your end as far as setup.  
  Just curious as to what the signal strength is on your layout. I can just plop an engine anywhere on the layout and add it. It takes a bit and at times you may get error messages but it will add without re trying. The only issue I’ve had as at times if a Lionel engine is sitting near the engine your trying to add in the same block.

I tested my signal strength.  Nearest my DCS wifi it is 10/10.  Farthest away it is 8/10 (25 feet away). Halfway in between it is 10/10.  I tried to add a new engine again with no luck.  Any other thoughts on why my second wifi unit will not connect to the original?

By any chance are you using banana plugs on TIU to track connections.  At this point I’d just pull the plugs on the output side  and run fixed channel one over to piece of track and see if the engine adds. If it adds. Hook everything back up and hopefully you can find the engine on the layout to run it.

Certainly not a track signal issue. I know when I add engines. Often times I get a No Engine to Add message.  I just wait it out and ignore it and eventually they always add. Is it just this one new engine that has an issue ?

I just tried to get my WIFI working again. One module works fine. The other one doesn’t seem to have things lit up that should be. I think if I ran MTH exclusively with all Proto 3’s. I’d be running them with DCC with a remote.

Yes, I am using banana plugs for both the input and output of the TIU.  Is there potential problems with banana plugs?  Should I replace banana plugs with stranded wire?

I have not tried to run the power directly from the output to a piece of track to see if the engine adds.  If I have some time tonight, I will try it.

I checked my wifi strength and it says that it is strong at 72 Mbps.

Let me ask another question.  Does it matter how the TIU is powered?  I am not using an auxiliary power source for my original TIU.  It seems that when I don't have my Z4000 transformer on that powers fixed voltage input 1 and 2, the TIU shuts off.  Even when I have the second Z4000 transformer on which powers variable voltage input 1 and 2, which I have changed to fixed voltage in the app.

I’ve used banana plugs from Day 1 for about 20 years. My reason for asking was that it’s easy to just pull the plugs if need be and go direct to a programming track with a couple of hook up wires soldered to a piece of  track and plugs at the other end. It just takes everything else out of the equation and theTIU only has to search a small straight portion of track. Then just plug everything back in when you add your engine.

Yes, Fixed 1 always needs to be powered for the TIU to work. Many opt for an auxiliary power supply for that reason. If something happens on Fixed 1 the other 3 channels still function.

@Dave_C posted:

Yes, Fixed 1 always needs to be powered for the TIU to work. Many opt for an auxiliary power supply for that reason. If something happens on Fixed 1 the other 3 channels still function.

Actually, the aux power supply is best, that makes all the channels truly independent.

I tried the direct wire approach with no luck.  I used the new siding that is isolated from the rest of the layout.  I removed the 4 sets of output wires from the TIU and ran one set of wires from the Fixed 1 output to the track.  I have a lighted bumper at the end of this siding, so I can confirm that power was being applied.  1.9 amps was the reading on the Z4000. I tried 2 new engines and neither engine was added.  I made sure each engine switch was set for 3 rail and DCS.  I am using my Samsung I-pad.

Does this suggest that something is wrong with the TIU?   

Will they add with the remote ?

I would now try leaving Fixed 1 powered up so that the TIU is working. Then jumper or power up one of your other channels and try.

With the track signal results you got testing. I see no reason the engines shouldn’t add right at the layout without going through all this. The other thing that’s odd. Is how much amperage there is from one single engine sitting on a siding and a lighted bumper. You usually only see a number close to 2 amps when running with smoke on. You can do a signal test without moving your engine. Plop an engine that’s already been added and just run a quick test. You should have a 10.

I have three TIUs and also three WIUs. I was not a fan of the app, but I may be in the future. So, I rely solely on my 4 remotes. If it were me, and I was trying to get the TIUs into super mode, I would take the WIU’s out of the mix for the time being, get the original TIU readdressed as number 1 TIU, and the one that will be controlling the siding/programming track as number two (I think you mentioned both were recognized in the remote). Once original TIU is set as number 1 (in super TIU mode, it will act as the master controller for TIU 2, but TIU 2 will basically communicate with TIU 1 to let it know what it has found and or programmed, my understanding is it’s basically an arm extension of more connection points but will continue to communicate with TIU 1 for programmed engines, routes, things of that nature). Once both are operating as intended, then you can toss the WIU’s back into the mix. I hope that would do it, but I’m not as well versed with WIU connectivity and app behavior as I gave up on it almost immediately after getting a Rev L with WIU included.

Dave C, I have successfully added several new engines using my remote.  Signal strength was a 10 on the siding.  Amp was 2.0 during this process.  I taped the wires directly to the track.  Thank you for your help.  If I don't solve this wifi issue, at least I have a method to add an engine. Now I have to re-learn how to use my remote.  I have ordered an external power supply for TIU 1 so that I am not relying on the transformer.

MingleRR, before I convert the original TIU (now #2) back to #1, I am going to add the other engines sitting on my layout to TIU 2, so that when I convert it back, all of the engines currently on my layout will be in that TIU.  Once I add the second TIU, then set up Super TIU mode, I am curious if I will have any problems using my remote to add an engine using the siding.  If I can't add an engine in Super TIU mode, then that mode won't do me any good.

Regardless, I will hopefully have some time tomorrow to try this.  I will let you know how the next steps turn out.

@MingleRR posted:

I’m not as well versed with WIU connectivity and app behavior as I gave up on it almost immediately after getting a Rev L with WIU included.

No current TIU has the WIU included.  Are you referring to the USB port added to the Rev. L?  The same functionality is gained from earlier version TIU's using the proper serial <-> USB adapter.  All rev's of the TIU can run the latest software.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

No current TIU has the WIU included.  Are you referring to the USB port added to the Rev. L?  The same functionality is gained from earlier version TIU's using the proper serial <-> USB adapter.  All rev's of the TIU can run the latest software.

well, there really isn’t a “current” TIU since they haven’t been produced in 4 years, but TIU 50-1036 was what I was referring to. The Rev L TIU with the included WIU, then I bought the remotes separate. And yes, all the TIUs can run the current software, and can run WIUs with the use of the serial Y cable to have the same functionality as a REV L, without really losing the serial port functionality.

@MingleRR posted:

well, there really isn’t a “current” TIU since they haven’t been produced in 4 years, but TIU 50-1036 was what I was referring to. The Rev L TIU with the included WIU, then I bought the remotes separate. And yes, all the TIUs can run the current software, and can run WIUs with the use of the serial Y cable to have the same functionality as a REV L, without really losing the serial port functionality.

OK, that was just a package deal of two separate products, the TIU supplied was the standard Rev. L TIU.  We are on the same page now.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

OK, that was just a package deal of two separate products, the TIU supplied was the standard Rev. L TIU.  We are on the same page now.

Correct. Perhaps we will finally see the WTIU this year. Although with having the 50-1036’s, I can’t say I’ll be in any rush to go get one.

@MingleRR posted:

Perhaps we will finally see the WTIU this year. Although with having the 50-1036’s, I can’t say I’ll be in any rush to go get one.

The big reason I won't be jumping on the WTIU is the lack of compatibility with the DCS remote.  I have spare TIU's in the closet, and I can fix most things that go wrong with them, so I'm good with the existing mix.  I don't have any desire to run trains with my phone, so they missed the mark with me.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The big reason I won't be jumping on the WTIU is the lack of compatibility with the DCS remote.  I have spare TIU's in the closet, and I can fix most things that go wrong with them, so I'm good with the existing mix.  I don't have any desire to run trains with my phone, so they missed the mark with me.

Agreed… I have tried running trains with apps, but it is not for me. I am a little more partial to perhaps getting a Base 3, although, that is solely because it can still run a Cab2 wirelessly, vs tethered for the WTIU/remote. The only reason I would REALLY want a Base 3 is for the supposed improved WiFi over the LCS WiFi module as my iPad mini will NOT connect to the LCS WiFi module. If it won’t connect to the Base 3 WiFi it’s kind of a wash for me. While I’m not a fan of running TRAINS via an app, I don’t mind controlling the layout via an app.

I'm with you, the app is better for setting up lashups I think but other than that I prefer the remote.