Adding Speakers to dummy engines

You will have to keep the TOTAL speaker impedance the same as it originally was. That means you will have to replace BOTH speakers.

 

For example, if the original speaker was 8 ohms, you can run two 16 ohm speakers in parallel, or two 4 ohm speakers in series. The 16 ohm speaker is a better bet from a reliability standpoint. If one speaker is disconnected, there is not too much load on the sound board.

When you make connections for this dummy, make them so there can't be any short if un-coupled. The longer tether lead should have the ends protected incase it accidentally drops on the track, etc.

 Don't ask me how I learned this one!!

Thats ah good point. That would mean i would have to always run those two engines hooked together. Maybe more of a pain in the but then it worth unless i add a load to the system when not hooked up. Something to think about. Thanks for the reply RoyBoy.

 

As far as the leads go i would use a micro connector thats plastic and plugs into the main engine. The issue now seems how to control loads on the sound system and keeping the ohms correct, Thanks for the heads up Engineer-Joe!

a single 16 ohm speaker will not harm an amplifier designed to run an 8 ohm speaker. You will just get somewhat less maximum volume.

 

You do not want to run a lower impedance speaker than design, but a higher impedance won't hurt the amplifier.

 

GRJ and I were typing at the same time.

 

 

Actually, it's not a problem to run without the dummy.  You'll get lower sound volume, but one 16 ohm speaker won't be a problem for the RailSounds 8 ohm output.  It's only running lower impedance that can overload things.

 

As Joe says, make the master have the female connector so it can't drop onto the rail, the male end is the dummy, much less potential for serious damage for that one.

 

Well, you asked for any thoughts...

 

You could put a transmitter in the main engine (like an FM wireless mic or Bluetooth audio transmitter) to broadcast the audio.  Then, while the dummy would need power pickups, it could have a receiver and amplifier to play the sound without the hassle of a tether.  The dummy could even be a pusher engine many feet away.

 

Another idea is to wirelessly transmit the audio to a home theater FM receiver or Bluetooth speaker pumping out hundreds of Watts.  I've actually tried this and the prime mover sound shaking your train room (and the rest of your house for that matter) is nothing less than shock and awe. 

 

 There should be some archives on FM wireless that i did about a year ago. A complete game changer and still performing fantastic.Hearing your engines through a subwoofer and its own speaker gives it directional dimension..total realism. stan 2004 helped with the details..if your ever in southern maine,stop in.you will be impressed.

Those are some really cool ideas for wireless sound systems. I especially like the idea of a subwoofer.

GunRunnerJohn, i figured that would be the case. With out knowing what the Ohms of speaker are. Do you know if there is a standard for the railSounds ohms? Are they all 8 ohms outputs?

 

Stan2004 - Im intrigued by the wireless thing. Any thoughts to transmitter and receivers that i would use? Also would you happen to know of some small amplifier that would fit into what ever space is in the dummy engine. Im guessing i can add pickups to the engine if it doesn't have any? 

The RS speakers are universally 8 ohms, at least all that I've seen from the originals to current Legacy.

 

Thats some great info to have while moving forward with this project. Thanks John!

I never thought it would be that involved.  I have a PWC set of Wabash F3s with a dummy b unit that carries the sound from the original AB from the set. And a dummy add on A.  I thought it would be relatively simple to throw a sound board and speaker in the powered A unit from the set.  Being it has the other TMCC boards aboard already, so to speak. Am I mistaken in this?

William 1,

   After having some long conversations with Bill Ingraham (Willygee) there is a lot more to it.  We talk engineer to engineer on the phone, Billy knows his electric engineering, especially reality sound production.

Man you should hear his engines sound systems, even thru the telephone they sound super cool.  Billy has them running thru his big system, it sounds like you are

sitting inside a real engine, the sounds are that pure.  I only wish they could miniaturize the required equipment.  If Bill ever does it, he is going to be a very rich man.  Every train owner will want his sound system.

 

PCRR/Dave

It's not massively involved to add a speaker to a dummy unit.  I will admit that you can get varying results, depending on the exact implementation.  I've added sound to a number of dummies, and recently added speakers to a locomotive with an extension from the tender.  I've never ended up with worse sound, usually it ranges from noticeably better to really impressive.

 

Obviously, broadcasting to a real sound system like Dave is talking about might yield some impressive results, but that's way more complicated.  Also, there's the issue of the design of the layout where it's running, not to mention what happens when you take your locomotive on the road.

 

Yes - I would stick with the ERR parts if I was to give it a go.  I upgraded an FT for someone and the sound was perfect. Similar, but noticeably different than that in the Wabash F3.  They would sound great together.  I'm sure it won't be too difficult.  But, I'll cross that bridge when it looms on the horizon again some day.

One other thing of note when adding speakers.  Make sure you have them phased correctly, all the + terminals together as well as all the - terminals.  Also, a good baffle will do wonders for the sound, something as simple as a spray can lid hot glued over the speaker to seal the back side will greatly increase the sound quality and apparent bass when compared to the open speaker.

I know what you are saying.  I have some TMCC Geeps that have a great sound set that would be greatly enhanced by a baffle, and if in there, why not put in a new speaker?  If I remember, a new one from Boxcar Bill is only about seven bucks or something.  And that speaker is a lot better unit than the one installed in say, 2002.   If I was to put sound in the A unit of that F3 set, I would probably get two new speakers and baffle them the same so the new one doesn't overpower the existing one.

Remember, you have to match the impedance, so if you're going to have two speakers, they'll have to be 16 ohm in parallel or 4 ohm in series.  I don't recommend the 4 ohm as a break in the tether or running without the dummy will result in no sound.

 

The simplest transmitter would be those FM modules used to send MP3 player audio to your car FM radio.  These are maybe $2-3 on eBay.  The transmitter issue was discussed at length in previous threads as willygee mentions.

 

Previously the discussion was sending the sound to a home theater system.  Obviously for a dummy engine the idea is to install a portable FM radio.  But the devil's in the details.  I've been working on another rolling-stock (not an engine) sound project which will use an MP3 player with speaker (3 Watts output).  In my case the sound comes from an SDHC card loaded with MP3 files.  The player is a 2" cube that runs about $6-7 on eBay free shipping from Asia.

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261675...e=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

Below is a photo of it dis-assembled into component parts.  Let me be clear.  I don't expect anyone else to go through this level of effort!  But after your question, I recalled that this MP3 player includes an FM radio!  So I tried it out today.  The key is I could program in a station (frequency) and it would remember it between power cycles.  I could program in the volume level and it would remember it between power cycles.  In other words, the idea is I wanted to be sure you just apply power and it comes up in FM mode at the previous station and volume.  It did.

 

So the idea is to apply 5V DC to the radio and off it goes.  If I were doing it I'd simply use an AC-DC converter module (eBay) for about $3-4 free shipping to generate the 5V DC from track voltage.  The interesting thing is the USB cable charges the battery and when you pull the USB cable the battery takes over which takes care of intermittent wheel/roller electrical issues.

 

The speaker has remarkable fidelity for the size - seems to be one of those newer rare-earth magnet coils.  The volume is at least as loud as the MTH Protosound engines I have.

 

As others point out, the tether method is clearly the keep-it-simple approach...though it seems without an amplifier you won't get more overall sound output.  I notice on eBay you can buy 3 Watt audio amplifier modules for $1 free shipping.  So you just need a DC supply ($3-4 on eBay) that converts track AC, and a speaker of your choice.

I have some of those amplifier modules, they'd be a good choice.  If you use the amplifier, you can probably stick with the 8 ohm speaker in the master and not sacrifice volume if you don't run with the slave.

 

That's a good point about running alone.  This also puts the kibosh on the two 4-ohm series method since you'd have no audio without the slave speaker present.

 

And going the other way, the nice thing about the amplifier is you could have more than 1 slave each with amplifier/speaker so volume would increase proportional to number of engines...rather than audio power being split (inversely proportional to number of engines).

I'm liking the amplifier idea more and more Stan.  Adding a little power module and the amp isn't a big issue.

Id thought about doing that to my williams EMD E-8..Would be nice to add speaker in the B unit and End A unit..

Here is an interesting Dallee speaker page that I linked some time ago.  It addresses the size issue in most cases.

I did a conversion to a MTH Gas Turbine that used the dual speaker.  Frankly it did not sound much different.  Could have been the acoustics of the tanker.  Did have a baffle.  Each individual speaker still gets the same lower current if you have to raise the speaker impedance.

 

So anything that can keep the same impedance speaker is a better choice in my opinion.  G

The amplifier is a good option, it doesn't impact the primary installation, just adds more volume in the other unit(s).

 

Wow! So much information. I need to spend some time and find the parts to make this happen. Thanks for all the help and great information you guys have provided. I'll be I touch if I have any more questions. Thanks again!