af standard steamer basket case

Dude, thats a nice engine in my view.  Great start point 😁

thanks d !

Looks pretty original to me. Bob Hannon is a good motor guy.

Terry, you can clean it with just a damp washcloth. I can tell it has some texture in the paint...so DO NOT GET IT WET.  Damp OK, wet not OK. Just rub in little circles, changing cloth position often.  Q -tip in the corners and under handrails etc.

Looks like you need a smokestack and a bell. You'll love the "monkey motion" when you get this train going!

See some action here. on my layout...: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...g1Gb3jkS8&t=130s

Not hardly a basket case! As Rob pointed out, some TLC and a few parts and you will have a great engine. And a second re: Bob Hannon on the motor work, Flyer or others.

snow and ice yesterday,so got to work on this,it sat on the kitchen counter for several weeks while I thought about it,got it all apart,got the motor out dirty ,yuck,called bob hannon,we talked for quite awhile,he said,,,see if she works,so after somemore cleaning, I put it on the bench ,and the motor came to life,it likes me  !,the reverse switch works great,this just keeps getting better all the time  !! 

Looks like a pretty good starting point for a great project. More photos as you you go along, please !!

I've been spraying old motors down with electric motor cleaner used for RC cars and trucks. It gets all the grime and old grease out that I can't do by hand. Then I take a pencil eraser to the commutator, and sometimes the brushes. I put a drop of oil where the commutator axel spins and on the pickup rollers. A light touch of new grease on the gears, and then those old engines want to take off! 

George

hardly a basketcase...that looks great!

I agree- not a basket case but a good starting point. I have gotten old Standard gauge motors running, some better than others, and use the CRC solvent but lately I have had two  Standard gauge locos rebuilt by someone who does a good job. I decided alost a year ago to quit buy things and get all my locos running well. My 402E was close to a basket case and I didnn't even attempt it. The repairs aren't cheap  but they run  well.  My experience has shown that on some of these there is a lot of wear involved that cleaning won't help.

The advice above from George S should do the trick. I would suggest removing the brush plate in order to access the commutator and to better clean the brushes and brush tubes. The reversing mechanism will need to be lightly oiled. I clean the reversing contacts with crocus cloth - if not available get some 1200 or 1600 grit wet or dry sandpaper from an auto parts store - drag it through the contacts.

These motors are really good - cleaning and oiling, then exercising by running, will bring out their best.

jim pastorius posted:

I agree- not a basket case but a good starting point. I have gotten old Standard gauge motors running, some better than others, and use the CRC solvent but lately I have had two  Standard gauge locos rebuilt by someone who does a good job. I decided alost a year ago to quit buy things and get all my locos running well. My 402E was close to a basket case and I didnn't even attempt it. The repairs aren't cheap  but they run  well.  My experience has shown that on some of these there is a lot of wear involved that cleaning won't help.

Good point, some are pretty far gone, and thats when you call Bob Hannon. We are lucky to have him. I wish I knew of him when I bought my first Std Gauge engine, a 390e. I think it needed the armature to be rewound. The field had continuity and the e-unit still works today. I ruined the armature messing with it when I had no idea what I was doing. I then just bought a replacement engine.

I have picked up a few #8s with decent motors to use as spares but the Bild A locos  I am not as familiar with  and this last one, although it ran, needed help. the 403E I bought had two motors that needed help and that was more than I wanted to tackle.

This is a basket case, and some day we'll see if I can get it running again   Believe it or not, I got most of it apart with out breaking any screws.  Need to work on the old pendulum reverse. 

Just keep in mind that if you soak these motors you have to be careful about ruining the fiber board in the motors and such and you also have to be careful to not "clean" or remove the varnish from the armature and field wire.  Evaporust was great on this mess BTW.

Do you have any "after"photos of that engine.Curious to see how far you were able to bring it back.Looks like it was soaked in water,perhaps a flooded basement?

thanks,dosnt have any water damage,so far just took it apart on wed,i'm hoping to have it on the track in about a month,,will keep everyone posted ,terry

Phil, have not finished it.  There was a lot of pitting.  All the castings were solid. I was planning to replaced the pitted nickel rims with some from zincpest wheels ( I save all the rims for this reason).  The motor side plates are also pretty pitted.  It could easily run again with the original parts, it's just a matter of do I want to see the pits so to speak...  Here is a pic of the boiler shell after some evaporust..  Primer and filler on the boiler will work fine as there is no rust through.  It is mostly just the total surface rust like mentioned above of being submerged for a short time and then never cleaned.  You can see how the evaporust  softened the reverese unit fiber board.  Again, if you dip the whole motor,, this will happen.  You need to get the fiber parts off first.  This one is more just a challenge to see if it can really be done than anything.  And yes, I paid money for it, but not much....

Well it is not quite as bad as I first thought.You will blow people's minds when you restore it and show pictures of the rust bucket you started with.I wonder how many people will not believe it is the same engine?

Dennis that is one I am waiting to see run!

Terry, looks pretty good to me too.

I have that AF locomotive shell, but in about the same condition as the one Dennis posted.

It will be repowered with a Marx Mechanical motor.

Next on my bucket list is an American Flyer Standard gauge loco. One of my Lionels has and AF  E unit stufed in it, I was told. It works.

What is the best way to remove the rust?

Sand or bead blasting, wire wheel, evaporust, and I also use electrolysis.

The electrolysis is easy, no chemicals no clean up just hook it up, hang it and walk away

starting to put the old fellow together (not me) and looking for one motor mount screw,,ahhhhh,and possible the head light bracket assembly,that one is mia so far,,i check hennings but no luck,any suggestions ? thanks terry 

yea found the light bracket,does anybody know ,I presume that the screw from the smoke stack also holds the light bracket,does the screw go in from the bottom or the top, I bought a new stack,but no screw came with it ,thanks 

terry hudon posted:

yea found the light bracket,does anybody know ,I presume that the screw from the smoke stack also holds the light bracket,does the screw go in from the bottom or the top, I bought a new stack,but no screw came with it ,thanks 

I've seen the screws mounted either way (Up or down) on the originals.  Head on top, pointed down looks better IMO.

It's 6/32 std. thread and about 3/4" long.  Basically the screw goes through the brass smokestack thing, through the casting, thought the headlight bracket, and then a nut is put on the bottom (or top, depending on how you do it) and that holds everything together tight.

Most true value or ace hardware stores sell "loose" hardware in different finishes.  You should be able to go buy one brass machine screw and nut to fit it.

Motor screws are also 6/32 std. thread, usually chrome/nickel finished, and about 1/4" long....however and its important, the right rear motor screw is slightly shorter than the other 3.  If you get one too long it and screw it in tight, it will prevent the reversing rod from sliding for and aft.

**Finally, and this is REALLY FREAKING IMPORTANT!      DO NOT tighten the screws that are secured into the boiler casting with a lot of force.  Hand tighten and then gently firm them up, but DO NOT torque them down with muscle or you might break the casting....especially the firebox side screws that secure the cab weight.  Blue Loc-Tite is your friend on the screw threads.**

I've rebuilt about 6 of these locomotives, so trust me on this last part.

terry hudon posted:

yea found the light bracket,does anybody know ,I presume that the screw from the smoke stack also holds the light bracket,does the screw go in from the bottom or the top, I bought a new stack,but no screw came with it ,thanks 

If it works the same as my o gauge Hudson, I think the smokestack acts as the nut for the screw. So, the screw goes in from the bottom.

George

Ives1122 posted:

terry hudon posted:

yea found the light bracket,does anybody know ,I presume that the screw from the smoke stack also holds the light bracket,does the screw go in from the bottom or the top, I bought a new stack,but no screw came with it ,thanks 

I've seen the screws mounted either way (Up or down) on the originals.  Head on top, pointed down looks better IMO.

It's 6/32 std. thread and about 3/4" long.  Basically the screw goes through the brass smokestack thing, through the casting, thought the headlight bracket, and then a nut is put on the bottom (or top, depending on how you do it) and that holds everything together tight.

 

Yes, I recall a nut on the screw through the smokestack too. However, on mine the smokestack did thread onto the screw. You may want to find that part first or use a temporary screw and washer. The nut was on the bottom on mine. I recall putting the screwdriver into the smokestack. 

George S posted:

terry hudon posted:

yea found the light bracket,does anybody know ,I presume that the screw from the smoke stack also holds the light bracket,does the screw go in from the bottom or the top, I bought a new stack,but no screw came with it ,thanks 

If it works the same as my o gauge Hudson, I think the smokestack acts as the nut for the screw. So, the screw goes in from the bottom.

George

While this is true, the problem with doing it this way is that it's much harder to tighten the screw down as you can't really get a driver in there straight to hold it on the wide gauge casting.

So if you hold the screw head with your finger and torque the brass smokestack nut down, you end up with a not so secured connection, and scratched paint where the brass smokestack ring rubs the top of the boiler as you torque it down.

The matte paint finish on the 4680 locomotive tends to flake and damage easily, as evidenced by his initial photos.  My vote would be head up, screw pointed down and secure the headlight bracket from below with a nut on this locomotive.

You can torque the nut on using pliers, or a small socket wrench.

thanks will look thru the junk screw box if not off to home depot 

terry hudon posted:

Terry, I just noticed:

The original headlight bracket is attached to your motor.

The 4680 was not cataloged with a firebox light (as it was an economy model).  Also the two brackets are very different.

Ives1122 posted:

George S posted:

terry hudon posted:

yea found the light bracket,does anybody know ,I presume that the screw from the smoke stack also holds the light bracket,does the screw go in from the bottom or the top, I bought a new stack,but no screw came with it ,thanks 

If it works the same as my o gauge Hudson, I think the smokestack acts as the nut for the screw. So, the screw goes in from the bottom.

George

While this is true, the problem with doing it this way is that it's much harder to tighten the screw down as you can't really get a driver in there straight to hold it on the wide gauge casting.

So if you hold the screw head with your finger and torque the brass smokestack nut down, you end up with a not so secured connection, and scratched paint where the brass smokestack ring rubs the top of the boiler as you torque it down.

The matte paint finish on the 4680 locomotive tends to flake and damage easily, as evidenced by his initial photos.  My vote would be head up, screw pointed down and secure the headlight bracket from below with a nut on this locomotive.

You can torque the nut on using pliers, or a small socket wrench.

Yep, I corrected that. I think my memory was faulty. I do remember the smokestack being threaded to the screw though.

Ives1122 posted:

terry hudon posted:

Terry, I just noticed:

The original headlight bracket is attached to your motor.

The 4680 was not cataloged with a firebox light (as it was an economy model).  Also the two brackets are very different.

I think that was improvised because the smokestack is missing. I doubt it would create as bright of a light in this manner.

We have the AF smoke stack in stock, as well as the lead & trailing truck wheels. All listed on our website under the MEW parts list.  Harry 

Harry Henning posted:

We have the AF smoke stack in stock, as well as the lead & trailing truck wheels. All listed on our website under the MEW parts list.  Harry 

Awesome! Looks like we will be seeing this engine on the tracks soon! 

You can do it Terry!

George

thanks found a brass screw and nut a bear to get in,but I did it,,yes I hope very soon

Harry Henning posted:

We have the AF smoke stack in stock, as well as the lead & trailing truck wheels. All listed on our website under the MEW parts list.  Harry 

thanks harry,i had to cut the bad wiring out of that headlight circuit ,then put the bracket aside,,,found it,,,and yes ,it has a lot of your parts in it,thanks

Dennis Holler posted:

This is a basket case, and some day we'll see if I can get it running again   Believe it or not, I got most of it apart with out breaking any screws.  Need to work on the old pendulum reverse. 

Just keep in mind that if you soak these motors you have to be careful about ruining the fiber board in the motors and such and you also have to be careful to not "clean" or remove the varnish from the armature and field wire.  Evaporust was great on this mess BTW.

Dennis, you have my utmost admiration for taking that on! I would have totally passed on that loco, and may have missed a great deal 

George