General Electric Engine of the 3-unit turbine Union Pacific, looking for drawings

on the top of the nose that green is fading over the years because of the sunlight what Lee Turner did is more than awesome, thanks UP148 of the beautiful pictures that is what I want and will do the same when the model is ready definitely an example for me. You see on the picture I done the horn yellow was from overland high gloss silver.

Under the weathering from Lee.

Very nice. For what it's worth, "Alco" had NOTHING to do with the design and construction of the various General Electric turbine electric locomotives.

@Hot Water posted:

Very nice. For what it's worth, "Alco" had NOTHING to do with the design and construction of the various General Electric turbine electric locomotives.

ok, didn't know so I learn  I want everything to know about the turbines have books yes but now I go to do something with this project was standing still for years always dreamt about it to super the 3-unit.

OK, this may provide a starting point:

This page has a couple of cutaways showing the drive train with turbine and generators, and the diesel in the forward unit: http://www.oil-electric.com/20...brash-ups-gtels.html

And here's a closer shot of a turbine before installation, with some piping detail on one side: https://cdm16694.contentdm.ocl...16694coll20/id/2694/

I have a couple of gas turbine books but have not seen detailed drawings of the turbines themselves. I know that these have been modeled in HO in some detail but not where the maker (Overland) sourced its info.

BTW, I understand that Alco was involved in at least an early experimental model, numbered 50, that was tested on the UP routes but never owned by UP. Obviously the turbine itself was built by GE.

@Hancock52 posted:

OK, this may provide a starting point:

This page has a couple of cutaways showing the drive train with turbine and generators, and the diesel in the forward unit: http://www.oil-electric.com/20...brash-ups-gtels.html

And here's a closer shot of a turbine before installation, with some piping detail on one side: https://cdm16694.contentdm.ocl...16694coll20/id/2694/

I have a couple of gas turbine books but have not seen detailed drawings of the turbines themselves. I know that these have been modeled in HO in some detail but not where the maker (Overland) sourced its info.

BTW, I understand that Alco was involved in at least an early experimental model, numbered 50, that was tested on the UP routes but never owned by UP. Obviously the turbine itself was built by GE.

Thank you I hope to find drawings some day.

I thought Id never own a Three Unite Turbine So I wrote UP and asked If I could obtain drawings, they said that the drawings for the 8500 hp Turbine had gone missing years ago, and they simply didn't have them and couldn't help me. I do now own  the Overland Model in O scale. They must be out there some where, accurate models do get made???  I also had anticipated the drawings for the S-1 Pennsy steam Turbine in Mainline Modeler but I dont know If they where ever published, before it ended publication.     cTr.... ( Choose the Right )

I do know OMI imported at least one HO example (Diamond Series I think) with turbine engine piping inside the "B" unit. Not sure how complete or correct it is, but I'll bet it's right.......Tom was a huge UP fan. Maybe OMI would share their drawings if they still have them and this would be my 1st contact.

I JUST SENT BRIAN MARSH AN EMAIL ASKING THIS QUESTION.

I will also send an email to Dick Harley (UP Guru), as he was once a strong member of the UP Historical Society and had ties to the museum.  He's forgotten more than most will ever know.

I heard back from Dick and he says to "give him a week to do some research and then rattle his cage again"...which I will do.  He has HO and S scale 8500 HP turbines and I'm hoping he might be able to assist us.

I’m very curious what we will have😁

Me too!  Hoping Brian Marsh responds as well.

Well, so far I'm shooting goose eggs on responses to two emails each. I may try to call Brian next week as maybe he's just too busy to deal with such items without direct contact.

Dick surprises me a little, as he's been very responsive in the past and we've worked together in the past, but we all live busy lives and he can't possibly share our interest/excitement to do this project, so I'll give him a pass and send a 3rd email next week.

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One the glare shield paint, that was done by the former owner (Greg Bergman) not Lee. Lee enhanced it with his weathering, but it looked great even before that. Greg also painted the sun visors the same shade of green.

The color is Tamiya XF-21 Sky and he applied it with a brush directly from the bottle, after carefully masking off the area. He thinks he hit the area with steel wool before applying the paint, which sounds like a good idea to me.

I won't give up Ed, until it looks like I'm harassing these guys...I don't want to wear out my welcome.

Butch

Maybe reach out to Scale trains as the recently produced highly detailed HO versions along with N scale. I believe they have videos of the process of them laser scanning number 26 in full 3D. They may not release everything but maybe could provide pictures.  I wouldn't expect them to provide any 3D drawings or anything of that nature.

Indeed they made one of the best turbines in ho, scale Scale Trains did a fantastic job with there Museum Quality Models and a good price I think. But what I saw is not the details where we looking for all the pipes in the GE-chamber centrifugal-flow gas turbine what Overland did in there ho brass turbines. in O scale you can go much further in detail and complete the turbine I hope to achieve that. Maybe I try to contact them😀

Good idea Texas SP.  They seem to be making some huge strides into quality HO model accuracy. Maybe we can double team them Ed.

@up148 posted:

Good idea Texas SP.  They seem to be making some huge strides into quality HO model accuracy. Maybe we can double team them Ed.

Yes I hope he know more about the inside of the B-unit number 26 and good pictures.

The turbine guts will be tricky since they are not in the unit. But it's worth a shot as there's no telling what else they dug up in their pursuit. The museum model they put out rivals and beats any brass version I've seen of it in any scale. And the price comparison just really seals it for me.

@TexasSP posted:

The turbine guts will be tricky since they are not in the unit. But it's worth a shot as there's no telling what else they dug up in their pursuit. The museum model they put out rivals and beats any brass version I've seen of it in any scale. And the price comparison just really seals it for me.

Yes they are beautiful I think to buy one the price is very good and the pictures on there site of the turbines are awesome.

Well, I heard from Brian at "former" OMI and I must say, he's always been a gentleman....just no help in this situation. So, I'll continue pursuing other venues.

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Butch

If I recall correctly, the 18 out at IRM has most of its innards.  Found this video.  Internals are near the end of the video.

Don't think they have any drawings though.  The 18 came to IRM by way of the now gone Kansas City Railroad Museum, who didn't have the space to keep it.

Rusty

Thanks Rusty, I wasn't aware of that. Figured they were all stripped prior.

I appreciated the 18 walkthrough. I only wish there was a running commentary on what I was seeing.

Now, a question, were all axles of  18A and 18B powered?

Did I see a diesel engine and what was that for, in reference to the turbine?

Thank you, Dan Weinhold

The diesel is a hostling engine to move the locomotive around in the yard.  The turbine is not used at those times.

Both the A and B units have 6 traction motors.

Rusty

Rusty, thank you!

Dan Weinhold

I thought the turbine powered the trucks on both units and the diesel only the front? Also if I recall from what I read only two axles per truck were powered but don't recall what the configuration was.

Great video Rusty!  I took some 35mm photos of it and a Centennial #6930 sitting side by side in south KCMO on storage tracks.....before the trade/move to IRM. I was already "ate up" with turbines at the time and had previously read they all came to to KC to be scraped....so this was a real surprise. Photos are not dated, but pretty sure this was mid 80's and I believe it sat there for the best part of the summer.

Since I had no permission to be near it, I photographed it from the ground and climbed up on top for roof top detail photos, but never got in the "A" or "B" unit like you did.  I figured being inside might be harder to explain to security/police/??? than just climbing around on it....but no one came or cared. The tender was painted black at that time.

The diesel engine was strictly for hosteling the loco around the yards, before and after runs.

@up148 posted:

Great video Rusty!  I took some 35mm photos of it and a Centennial #6930 sitting side by side in south KCMO on storage tracks.....before the trade/move to IRM. I was already "ate up" with turbines at the time and had previously read they all came to to KC to be scraped....so this was a real surprise. Photos are not dated, but pretty sure this was mid 80's and I believe it sat there for the best part of the summer.

Since I had no permission to be near it, I photographed it from the ground and climbed up on top for roof top detail photos, but never got in the "A" or "B" unit like you did.  I figured being inside might be harder to explain to security/police/??? than just climbing around on it....but no one came or cared. The tender was painted black at that time.

At the time, Intercontinental Engineering was removing the turbines and reconditioning them for barge use.  I never heard if they were successful in that application or not.

@TexasSP posted:

I thought the turbine powered the trucks on both units and the diesel only the front? Also if I recall from what I read only two axles per truck were powered but don't recall what the configuration was.

Nope, there were 12 traction motors.  Having A-1-A trucks would've negated some of the advantages of the turbines.  The same for have the A and B MU.  Otherwise you'd just have the B unit pushing around dead weight on the road.  I recall KCRM discussing "exchanging" two traction motors for a welding rig from Intercontinental.

I suppose it's possible the hosteling diesel only powered the A unit for poking around light in the yard, but I can't really say, I haven't located any document to prove one way or the other.  The diesel was 850 horsepower motor by Cooper-Bessemer.

Note #1:  The 18 was used to switch the dead line at Intercontinental when needed, as it was the last unit in line.

Note #2: Neither the 18 or 26 were donated by the UP to the museums as they no longer held title.  They were donated by Intercontinental Engineering.

Rusty

i think the diesel will be needed as well for starting the turbine

you need a lot off energy for those

Cor

@moonlicht posted:

i think the diesel will be needed as well for starting the turbine

you need a lot off energy for those

Cor

Correct.  The diesel was also used to start the turbine.

Rusty

Great video Rusty. Thank you so much.

Yves

Thanks again Rusty for all the info!