Amtrak ACS64 Electric Locomotive That Operates On The Boston to Washington DC Northeast Corridor.

If Sunset produced them, I would buy one or two Amtrak ACS-64 models. As I understand it, high licensing fees by the locomotive manufacturer have been the reason that this model has not yet been produced in O gauge/scale. I think it would be a good seller.

MELGAR

Finding the correct party to talk to even discuss licensing fees is the biggest challenge so far.  I would like one of these by Sunset.

If Scott Mann was going to produce the E60 and had gotten the license from Amtrak to do it why should it be any different to do the ACS64? He also got the license to produce the Amfleet and Viewliner cars. Bachmann produces the ACS64 in HO scale.

@ed new haven line posted:

If Scott Mann was going to produce the E60 and had gotten the license from Amtrak to do it why should it be any different to do the ACS64? He also got the license to produce the Amfleet and Viewliner cars. Bachmann produces the ACS64 in HO scale.

Because Scott would also need the license from Siemens.  Amtrak doesn't own the ACS64 design.

Bachmann apparently has a Siemens license.

Rusty

@ed new haven line posted:

If Scott Mann was going to produce the E60 and had gotten the license from Amtrak to do it why should it be any different to do the ACS64?

Was a license actually needed from Amtrak to produce a GE electric locomotive, i.e. the E60?

He also got the license to produce the Amfleet and Viewliner cars.

Do you know for a fact that Sunset/3rd Rail/GGD actually got a "license" from Amtrak?

Bachmann produces the ACS64 in HO scale.

Did THEY get a license from either Amtrak or the manufacturer of the locomotive?

Amtrak requires that all Amtrak branded models get a license.  There is no charge for the license, it is simply a means for Amtrak to protect their brand.  In many ways, it was very helpful with the Amfleet / Viewliner cars as their brand specialist is also a modeler and knows more about these cars than any else I have worked with.  Scott has the ability to license any Amtrak car / locomotive through Amtrak.  However, the Siemens locomotives require a license in addition to the Amtrak one.  I have heard discussion that there is a cost, but I do not have any facts to back up if that is true or not. 

Bachmann received a license from Siemens to produce the ACS64 in HO and N.  However, like Atlas, there is no guarantee or even much likely hood that we will see what has been done in HO and N in O scale. 

If Siemens charges the same price for a license for HO, N and O scale models, the cost of the license per model depends on how many models are produced in each scale. Since HO and N scale production numbers are likely much larger than for O scale, the price impact per model would be larger for an O scale model. This could increase the selling-price of an O scale model to an amount that people would not be willing to pay and also reduce the number of models that could be sold. Simply put, the much larger size of the HO and N scale markets might make it easier to justify the cost of the license for those scales than for O - and that may be why HO and N scales have been produced but O scale has not.

MELGAR

Hopefully it can be worked out that Scott Mann can get (if he wants to) the required license to produce the Amtrak ACS64 so that his Amfleet and Viewliner cars can have the same locomotive that pulls the actual ones that do on the corridor.

@GG1 4877 posted:

Amtrak requires that all Amtrak branded models get a license.  There is no charge for the license, it is simply a means for Amtrak to protect their brand.  In many ways, it was very helpful with the Amfleet / Viewliner cars as their brand specialist is also a modeler and knows more about these cars than any else I have worked with.  Scott has the ability to license any Amtrak car / locomotive through Amtrak.  However, the Siemens locomotives require a license in addition to the Amtrak one.  I have heard discussion that there is a cost, but I do not have any facts to back up if that is true or not.

Bachmann received a license from Siemens to produce the ACS64 in HO and N.  However, like Atlas, there is no guarantee or even much likely hood that we will see what has been done in HO and N in O scale.

I was under the impression Amtrak charges <5% of revenue for licensing. There’s likely some charges in order for the license contract to be binding there would need to be consideration.

The tough thing with producing ACS64s in O Scale is that it can only be produced in only one road name. Of course, there are a few different paint schemes, the typical Phase V, Coca-Cola 606 (another license needed), 642 Veterans Unit, 602 w/ the American Flag, and 602 w/ Mobility Diagram but, there is a reason why Lionel had to offer the Acela in 8 different road names to get enough orders to produce it. Similarly, if the HHP-8s, another Amtrak-only engine produced by Lionel, I am sure we would have seen it reproduced.

Another problem is the lack of Phase IVb/VI Amfleet passenger cars to match an ACS64. The GGD are pretty expensive (and already sold out), MTH ones are impossible to find, and Lionel hasn't produced Amfleets in close to 15 years (since the HHP-8). I am sure Atlas will release the Premier Amfleets when they do a run of the Premier P42 50th Anniversary units and I know that I will be stocking up when they do.

Lastly, although they only entered service in 2014, the majority of the ACS64s will no longer be on Amtrak's roster by the end of this decade. Recently, Amtrak announced a purchase of ICTs for service on the Northeast Corridor for all regionals and the majority of state-supported services, leaving the ACS64s to pull long-distance trains that travel on the corridor. In all likelihood, the ACS64s will be sold off to commuter railroads like MARC and MBTA for commuter services.

I want an ACS64 more than the next guy and have ridden behind one close to 50 times, but I doubt we will see one on O Scale. I do have a good feeling that we will see a Siemens Charger in O Scale considering the variety of road names it can be offered in.

@RJ I posted:

but, there is a reason why Lionel had to offer the Acela in 8 different road names to get enough orders to produce it.

And four of them (UP, NH, PRR, Milw) were cancelled.

Rusty

Another hesitant factor with the ACS 64 and the chargers are the variety of paint schemes used to market the model. Aside from the 3 Amtrak Schemes (Normal, Veterans, and Siemens mobility), and Septa, the options are fairly limited, and unless fantasy schemes are made, one will have to trust the niche Amtrak modelers out there to pay the price. Luckily there is a little more wiggle room with liveries when considering the SC-44 charger, but anyone still will have to deal with Siemens and other railroads' licensing fees...

The “ACS” actually stands for Amtrak Cities Sprinter.

The SEPTA  version looks really nice.