The BB is the former CSX/C&O mainline between Charlottesville and Clifton Forge, which is the route it takes from D.C. to Chicago.

And I hope that it continues.  It's "local" sister, The Hoosier State, is on the chopping block and came within an eyelash of being eliminated in October of last year.  I'm hoping that it will continue to survive as ridership has increased each year. 

I"m on a southbound Northeast Regional right now, getting ready to go through Doswell where the Buckingham Branch starts.  This is Hanover junction, where the old C&O crossed the old RF&P. A place very important to General Robert E Lee......where the Virginia Central RR from the Valley hooked on the the line into Richmond from Fredericksburg.

 

Peter

The Cardinal as we know it today is essentially Amtrak's replacement of the Chesapeake & Ohio's "George Washington" (Washington DC/Newport News, VA to Cincinnati, OH) and "James Whitcomb Riley" (Cincinnati, OH to Chicago, OH), rather than a newly routed train. The C&O's mainline started out in Newport News and headed west through Richmond and across the former RF&P at Doswell towards Charlottesville. Some 20 miles east of Charlottesville is a spot known as Gordonsville, where it met the Orange & Alexandria Railroad which ran north from Alexandria. Through many 19th Century legal battles and name changes, the O&A and its successors aimed for a route to the south and rather than use this 20 miles of C&O trackage, it built its own line south from Orange, crossing the C&O at Charlottesville. With the O&A line, now the Virginia Midland (and ultimately Southern/NS), between Gordonsville and Orange seeing little use with the new southern route opened, the C&O entered into an arrangement with VMRR that granted them a lease of the 9 miles between Orange and Gordonsville, as well as trackage rights over the VMRR to Alexandria where trains entered the Washington Southern RR to DC, later part of the RF&P.

With this new agreement, the C&O continued to operate passenger trains west from Newport News to Charlottesville where they met a Washington section. As passenger service gradually died off in the 1960's leading up to Amtrak, Washington became the major destination over Newport News and service here was reduced and eventually cut/combined with RF&P routed trains from Richmond while the Washington section continued. Today's Cardnial still follows the route of the Washington section, and there is a bus connection available in Charlottesville to Richmond where passengers are able to meet the Newport News trains.

That is the historical answer for why the Cardinal takes the C&O, now Buckingham Branch route to Washington. Physically while there is a "interchange" between the BBRR and the Southern, now NS, it is located in the southeast quadrant of the diamond. This would require a backup move for the Cardinal to utilize it. A couple of years before BBRR began its lease of the line from CSX I was told that passenger equipment was restricted from operating on this interchange track, I assume this restriction is still in place-a reason why one of the recent Amtrak Auto Train detour ran north up the Washington District to Alexandria rather than turning east towards Doswell.

Two quick fun facts: the 9 miles of track between Orange and Gordonsville is still technically owned by the VMRR sucessor, NS. A formal lease agreement for 99 years began in 1890 to allow C&O to lease the track from VMRR sucessor Richmond & Danville-the last name change before becoming Southern. This lease was renewed while under CSX control, and as part of the BBRR's 2004 agreement to lease the Piedmont Subdivision from CSX, the Washington Sub was subleased from CSX to BBRR.

In the days of the early Southern/NS steam excursion program, many roundtrips were operated south from Alexandria to Charlottesville, a good 100 mile run one way. Here the engines were cut off from the train, and backed along the interchange to the C&O's yard where they were turned on the C&O's turntable and serviced before returning north. This continued well into the 1980's until the arrival of bigger power in the form of N&W 611 and 1218 which had much longer range than the smaller southern locomotives. While the 611 ran several trips to Charlottesville in the early 1980s, they were later extended to Lynchburg, a long 170 mile run from Alexandria, where the engines were serviced and turned.

If you look at a map of the tracks through Charlottesville where the Buckingham Branch and NS cross, the only way to get from the NS mainline to the BB would be with a backing movement. A southbound Cardinal would have to back up the NS mainline to get on the BB in order to proceed westbound on the BB. Same goes for an eastbound Cardinal in order to get northbound on the NS. Also, the connection between the NS and BB at Charlottesville may no longer be in service.

 

This arrangement goes back a long, long time when the C&O originated passenger trains in Washington, had trackage rights on the Southern to Orange, VA where it joined C&O tracks to Charlottesville and westbound. Charlottesville used to be where the C&O combined (or split) Washington-Cinncinati trains with Newport News-Cinncinati trains. Besides moving passenger cars around, in steam days motive power was exchanged between Northerns and Mountains for the run between Charlottesville and Hinton, WVA with Hudsons and Pacifics for the run between Charlottesville and Washington or Newport News. Charlottesville must have been a busy place in the steam days. Today on the BB there is only the Cardinal, westbound CSX empty coal trains, and the occasional BB local.

 

Ken

Clifton Forge is the closest passenger train stop to the Homestead Resort (after the track that extended right up to the side of the hotel was removed.) 

all of the above information is quite true. however, the C & O used the Mountain Subdivision from Clifton Forge to Charlottesville for ONE main reason. That was to keep passenger trains off the James River line. The James River line is a water level route that the C & O(now CSX) uses to move millions of tons of coal to Newport News and the coal loading docks. The C & O did not want to have passenger trains interfering with coal movements, so the passengers went the scenic route and coal went the water route. The C & O could move vast coal trains down the James River with minimal motive power.

The Mountain Sub also provided C&O/Chessie/CSX with an alternate route to the James River Line. That river line has flooded several times, and while repairs are being made, trains were routed over the Mountain Sub.

Some misc. ramblings:

The Mountain Sub is the original C&O mainline. The James River sub came later.

Coal went down the James and a lot of empties came back over the mountain.

Paperboy might know more, but, I think that I have heard something about trying to reopen the original tunnel built by Crozet through Afton Mountain as a trail or something.

At one time the C&O interchanged a lot of coal to the N&W at Waynesboro, VA.

Paperboy might know more, but, I think that I have heard something about trying to reopen the original tunnel built by Crozet through Afton Mountain as a trail or something.

 

Yes, the Mountain Sub was the original right of way with the James Line coming after. There is a group working to make the original tunnel a walking/bike trail. I'm guessing that, if they are successful, walkers and riders will need leg guards to ward off the rattlesnakes! 

AFTON -- The inky black hole carved out of greenstone opens into an elliptical tunnel underneath Rockfish Gap in the Blue Ridge Mountains.

Drips of water sparkle in the cool air in front of the Blue Ridge Tunnel’s east portal in Afton, heralding the soon-to-come restoration and reopening of the tunnel to the public.

The Blue Ridge Tunnel Project has been in the works for about 12 years, but with the receipt of a $749,149 award from the Commonwealth Transportation Board, Phase 1 implementation has transformed from a possibility into a certainty.

“[The tunnel’s] significance is historic, as it was the longest tunnel in North America when it was completed,” said Allen Hale, president of the Claudius Crozet Blue Ridge Tunnel Foundation. “I think it will draw lots of visitors, and the benefit to the economy will be through tourism.”

The first phase, starting as soon as early this fall, will include the construction of a parking lot near Afton Depot, just past the Afton Legal Clinic. The foundation is finishing negotiations on real estate to acquire an extra .93-acre parcel adjacent to the .67-acre plot that Nelson County already owns on the eastern end of the tunnel, Hale said.

Phase 1 also will include the installation of a drainage system and the creation of a roughly 3,400-foot walking trail from Afton Depot to the east entrance of the tunnel, along the railroad bed. The tracks have been washed away in a section and overrun with brush, but the area is canopied with large trees and lined with green brush.

Eventually, Hale said, a small visitors center could be built near the start of the trail. But that remains tentative -- funds are not currently available for an attendant.

The trailway will be accessible to hikers, walkers and bicyclists, and eventually would link to existing trail systems in the area.

After the completion of the first phase, the county plans to open up the first 700 feet of the approximately 4,264-foot tunnel to the public.

Hale said they are looking to complete Phase 1 of the project in about four to six months after they accept a bid for the construction work.

“At the current time, the tunnel is not open to the public, and it’s trespassing to go to the tunnel,” Hale said. “This is for safety and private property reasons.”

While Nelson County is overseeing the project, the effort is being driven by the nonprofit Claudius Crozet Blue Ridge Tunnel Foundation, a regional public-private agency with an 11-member board of directors elected in July. The group is composed of at least one government employee from Nelson, Albemarle and Augusta counties and the city of Waynesboro.

The foundation hopes the tunnel will connect the four areas and “function as the key component of a regional greenway system ... as a one-of-a-kind walking, hiking and biking destination embedded within a longer-distance trail system,” information from the foundation states.

The tunnel was constructed in the mid-1800s and designed by French engineer Claudius Crozet. It rests at a depth of 700 feet below the ridgeline of Rockfish Gap.

“The contracting firm of Kelley & Larguey utilized construction crews comprised mostly of Irish laborers, as well as several dozen slaves” to the dangerous and difficult work of excavating the tunnel from each end, according to the foundation.

Once the Chesapeake & Ohio Railway completed a modern tunnel to accommodate larger freight trains near the Blue Ridge Tunnel in 1944, the old tunnel ceased to host rail service, the information states.

The Blue Ridge Tunnel was designated a National Historic Civil Engineering Landmark in 1976 by the American Society of Civil Engineers.

Why has the current C&O mainline not become a modern throughline packed with stack trains?  NS sees fit to work that magic on the parallel N&W plus the former Pennsy Main of course.  So CSX could use the two pronged approach as well.

 

How many trains does the C&O se daily?

 

quote:

“[The tunnel’s] significance is historic, as it was the longest tunnel in North America when it was completed,”

Thanks PB.
I remember reading about Crozet and the tunnel in my Virginia History book back in elementary school. Bet they don't even mention it now.

The tunnels on the old C&O between Clifton Forge and Hinton, WVA limit the height of the trains. I have seen single stack container trains on the James River line occasionally but don't know where they're coming from or heading. Also there are no container facilities in Newport News which is primarily a coal terminal. The major container facilities are across Hampton Roads in Norfolk/Portsmouth which is primarily served by NS.

 

Ken

Well, that part of the statement is not entirely true. While it may not be considered first class, there was some passenger service on the James River Sub. and I would think that the Mountain Sub. would be a much more direct route to where the most people wanted to go.

I railfan in this area as I live here!!! I do see container trains but single stacked....always wondered where they were coming and going to?? But kinda cool to see a long container train with no stacks!

Dave, your observation makes sense based on a comment made to me when I traveled by train from Clemson, SC to Cleveland, OH via Washington, DC.  The passenger trains in the south were only one level due to the height of the tunnels and trains in the north used the double-deck passenger cars.  This would validate the tunnel issue regarding the single stack containers. 

       
       


Mike:

CSX is putting their clearance dollars into the former B&O mainline.  It wouldn't make sense to spend that kind of money raising clearances on two lines that are essentially parallel routes.  The B&O line ties into CSX's New Baltimore intermodal facility in Ohio better than would the C&O plus, it also provides better port options on the east coast.  Additionally, the former C&O has mainly been a coal conduit for CSX, similar to the former Clinchfield line.

Curt

it is! and, when viewing timetables, you see the GW, FFV and Sportsman all thru the Mt Sub to/from Charlottesville. besides that, there were probably more people close to the Mt Sub than the James River line. I would suspect any passenger trains on the James River Sub were locals, at  best.

 

in response to kanawha, there are and were quite a few tunnels from Clifton to Afton that would not allow domes.

Coal loads comes down the James River; empties return via the Piedmont/Mountain. 

 

Container trains can sometimes be an interesting sight.  Sometimes they come down the James River Viaduct into Fulton; they are pulled out of Fulton onto the Piedmont Sub and "interchanged" from 17th Street yard (former C&O) to Brown Street yard (former SAL) if they need to go south.  The converse of the maneuver occurs if the container train arrives from the south to go west.

 

Amtrak serves Main Street Station on the C&O side only. 

I forgot about those tunnels. However, a few years ago I remember seeing a train of vintage private cars stopped at the old Southern station in Charlottesville on the old C&O side. It appeared to be headed westward and one of the cars was a dome. This happened just after a National Train Day and I assumed the train was coming from a display at DC Union Station and going west. Are you sure the tunnels wouldn't accommodate a dome car? Wish I could figure out what I did with the picture.

 

Ken

It seems like after the C&O/B&O merger there was a gradual decline of merchandise railroad freight to water borne freight interchange at Newport News in favor of Baltimore. Apparently the B&O routing was more favorable for this type of traffic than the C&O routing. I suppose when container traffic started, Baltimore was the logical place to place to build a container terminal. Does anyone know what other container ports CSX services?

 

Ken

I watched many trains as a kid at the crossing in Charlottesville.  We lived nearby, first in Fry's Spring then in Key West. 

 

C&O for Progress

 

Southern Serves the South

 

 

and speaking of the Mountain Sub, just saw the following:

 

'Cardinal' runs with Superliner equipment following boulder strike

STAUNTON, Va. – Amtrak’s normally single-level Cardinal is running with a set of Superliner equipment this week following an incident with a fallen boulder over the weekend. The makeshift consist includes a single-level baggage car and four Superliners.

On Friday evening, train No. 51, the westbound Cardinal, struck a boulder obstructing the Buckingham Branch Railroad. The incident occurred at Milepost 237.7 near Augusta Springs, about 18 miles west of Staunton. Lead locomotive P42 No. 125 suffered extensive damage to its main reservoir tank and was unable to continue west on its own power. After several hours of unsuccessful repair attempts, two CSX locomotives were dispatched out of the railroad’s Clifton Forge yard to rescue the train.

The train operated 40 miles west to Clifton Forge under the power of two CSX ES44ACs. Arriving 10 hours behind schedule, buses were on scene at Clifton Forge to transport passengers to their destinations.

“One bus never arrived and the remaining passengers were placed in a nearby hotel overnight,” Amtrak spokesman Marc Magliari says.

The disabled consist then continued west to Indianapolis, Ind., as a deadhead move on Saturday afternoon under the lead power of CSX locomotives. No. 125 was setout there for repair at Amtrak’s suburban Beech Grove maintenance facility.

 

Been a few years since I traveled on Amtrak.  There were often delays yet I would call each of them an adventure.   I have never thought of any airline delay as an adventure and don't know anyone who has unless they love aviation terminals.

 

Ken:

In addition to Baltimore, CSX also serves the container ports of Boston; New York/New Jersey; Philadelphia; Norfolk; Newport News: Charleston, SC; Savannah, GA; and Jacksonville, FL.

 

 

BTW...How many trains daily pass through the old B&O such as around Sand Patch?  Is it as busy as the NS Pittsburgh Line?

 

Mike:  The number of trains on the old B&O line is really a question for Forum member Ed Mullan.  I believe he lives in the Cumberland, MD area and railfans that line.  I would be surprised if that line came close to the train count NS is putting over the Pittsburgh Line, however.  Between coal, crude oil, ethanol, intermodal, merchandise and Amtrak, NS is running between 60 and 70 trains a day across the former PRR mainline.  I'm guessing the former B&O line sees maybe half that number.

 

Curt

Hello everyone, I live in Huntington, WV. I joined this forum mainly so I could help answer with you guys who asked where the container trains originate. Currently, the only container train that operates on the former C&O is a Q122. This runs east all the way to Portsmouth, VA. It originates in Columbus, Ohio. The train departs Columbus sometime in the afternoon or night. Q122 is basically a train consists of overflow containers that couldn't get out on other trains from the North Baltimore, Ohio terminal earlier in the week. Sometimes they run another 122 on another day other than Saturday and it runs as an X122.

 

The C&O did see other container trains from June 2011 to October 2013. These were the trains.

 

Q130: Chicago, IL (from the Belt Railway of Chicago) to Portsmouth, VA. (Ran as an L130 either on Saturday or Sunday, can't remmber which)

 

Q135: Portsmouth, VA to North Baltimore, OH. (Was known as L135 on Sundays and it did not run on Mondays.)

 

Q136: North Baltimore, OH to Portsmouth, VA. (Ran as an L136 on Sundays I believe.)

 

Q139: Empty well cars. Portsmouth, VA to North Baltimore, OH (If they ran one any other time of the week, it was known as X139.)

 

These trains were basically long term reroutes from their normal route of the B&O due to work on CSX's National Gateway Phase 1 project. Since Phase 1 has been completed and work has or will soon commence on Phase 2, these trains have since gone back to the B&O as of October 2013.

 

I don't know how many of you are aware of this, but there are now Bakken crude oil trains from North Dakota and Canada that take the C&O via the New River and James River Subdivisions to a refinery in Yorktown, Virginia. The refinery finally became operational this past November and we have seen a parade of oil trains coming through since then. So far, these are the train IDs that have been used for them.

 

K080 and K082 (loaded): Chicago, IL (from BNSF) to Yorktown, VA.

 

K081 and K083 (empty): Yorktown, VA to Chicago, IL (handoff to BNSF)

 

K088 (loaded): Chicago, IL (From Canadian Pacific) to Yorktown, VA.

 

K089 (empty): Yorktown, VA to Chicago, IL (handoff to Candian Pacific)

 

Coal traffic has also picked up significantly. This winter season has been very harsh and has diminished many coal burning power plant's extra coal reserves. The C&O has been seeing a parade of coal trains from Detroit Edison loading along the west end of the C&O on the Kanawha, New River, Big Sandy, Coal River, Logan, Cabin Creek and Logan Subdivisions. I have a friend who is a CSX dispatcher in Huntington that for a few years, was a dispatcher for the areas on the C&O that load coal from the mines. He went back to that same territory temporarily to cover for someone and he says that three mines have reopened on the territory since he left it in October.

 

Check out my Youtube page for some of the trains I mentioned in this post: https://www.youtube.com/user/appalachianrails

 

-JE

 

Edit: I forgot to say this too but for anyone interested, Amtrak Train 51, the westbound Cardinal, will have the Superliners used on 50 from Sunday tomorrow (3/12).

 

Also the eastbound Cardinal for 3/12 will have two private cars on the rear. They are the Silver Quail and Iowa Pacific's "Adirondack Club." Adirondack Club was originally the C&O "Blue Ridge Club." 

Thank you for the info and links.  Looks like CSX is using the C&O as a heavy tonnage or overflow route.

 

I am amazed that the terminal in Newport News isn't that grand.  Did C&O not try to build something to compete with N&W in Norfolk?

 

That depends on which part of the C&O you are inquiring about as far as manifests.

 

As far as grain trains, the number vary depending on how good the harvest was.

 

-JE

I think sometime in the late 80's/ early 90's the C&O went out of the port business in VA. A private company installed new ground storage coal facilities at NN and the old coal piers were removed. The State of Va. now operates all the ports in Hampton Roads. CSX made a business decision to move most merchandise business to the Port of Baltimore and leave NN mainly for export coal.

 

Also with state help an "inland port" was constructed on the NS west of Norfolk for interchange of truck/container/rail traffic. Therefore most of the merchandise traffic to/from Hampton Roads area ports flows on the NS and to Norfolk. There are some old Seaboard piers on the southside of Hampton Roads, not sure how much CSX traffic moves through those.

 

The refinery at Yorktown is still closed. The oil storage facilities at the refinery have been re-purposed as an oil terminal. I assume its purpose is for rail to oil storage and then to barge transport. The newspaper article about this didn't really explain exactly what was going to happen there but did say eventually it could accommodate up to 800 trains per year. I find that very hard to believe.

 

Ken