Amtrak Not Doing Well

Heck this sounds like a nice trip, but to me the getting there is just as important as the there. I don't know the schedule of these trains but this could be fun. A day in DC the station is right across the street from the national mall, the overnight train on the Capitol breakfast in ohio& indiana, Lunch in downtown Chicago, then on the southwest chief for dinner, I think might have to try this. All this travel without driving or commercial planes.

 

Clem 

Railride,

   If you & your better half like to ride the rails, ride the train in a Sleeper Car from Wahington DC to New Orleans.  Save a little money and be safe, stay in Slidell and drive across the Cosway to NO, see the French Quarter, eat some incredible food and listen to some fine live Jazz music.  Then take the same train home again a few days later, a great trip!  My parents visited us in Slidell each year riding the rails.

 

PCRR/Dave

Question:  Seems today people are taking trips today which 30-50 years ago most people would not take unless of a family member was dying or has died.  Maybe if people would stop traveling until the atmosphere gets better, then those providing the transportation would get the 

 

WHAT????

Hot Water is correct. You nevered finished your comment. As for what your saying, I can't say about taking trips 30 to 50 years ago if a family member has died or dying. You really can't say that because look how long passenger trains have been around. 20th Century Limited, NYC, SP, espicially Santa Fe and etc. Also back then even 50 or more years you had NYC Passenger Train, PRR Trains, The AeroTrain, Santa Fe Passenger Trains, Etc. I have a book from Al Stauffer that shows the NYC in it's glory and it shows more pictures of Passenger then freight. So I have to say passenger trains are a little less today, but still up there. Only 2 differences, modern power and modern cars. But trains have never really changed. They run on rails, ties, and railbed. Even though I've never been on Amtrak before, I have ridden on some shortline railroads and it's a nice ride. So with what I was talking about with the passenger trains, it's still good, but not what was back in the 30's, 40's, 50's and 60's. Also don't forget the war with troops coming home on train, example NYC. But for what I'm saying about this, this is my opinion. Every person has a different opinion.

Also to what RailRide said them taking that AEM-7 off that train, that's why there getting the ACS-64 to replace them. From watching videos, I will miss the AEM-7's & HHP-8's. But I will say, that the new ACS-64's have a very nice look to them. MTH or Lionel will probably be making one of these engines in the future.

I don't know whether to call it funny or ironic, but the particular HHP8 (#656) that Lionel chose for its Northeast Corridor set happens to have been the first one retired, from what I heard.

 

---PCJ

I wonder how long it will take for Amtrak to get rid of all the AEM-7's & HHP-8's.

Avoid amtrak if you come my way through the dakotas unless ya can take long delays with all the oil traffic. We are having a hard time getting hopper and tanker cars due to the increase and unless they plan on adding another main line. Bnsf /Cp adding loco's and cars won't help the situation. amtrak around here is a not really a well used service by us locals in almost all cases here its a quicker drive not adding in delays

My recent Amtrak experiences have been good overall. I have been traveling long distance trains since 1960 with the last trip Oct 2013. Amtrak has isses...but many not of their making. And some self inflicted wounds are caused by inadequately trained service personnel.    I hope to ride again soon....and always look forward to the trip. Reports from my two most recent trips are linked below at the currtail website.

OK, Let me try this again:  30 to 50 years ago, many people took long trips on whatever mode due to work, having  sick and or family members dying, or having to go to a special med center.  Maybe a family vacation every so often.  But it seems now many people are going places OUTSIDE OF NEED, at a drop of a hat.  Going to see X relative every Y period of time is a not a trip of need.  Going to X park is not a trip of need.  Goinf to see X at Y is not a trip of need.  If people would stop taking trips unless there is absolute need, maybe then the various transportation modes would get their act together, so as Canard used to say, "Getting there is half the fun."

Well, in my opinion, you still don't get it! As far as the long distance Amtrak trains are concerned, they are all about "vacations", and the vast majority of the paying passengers really don't seem to care about on-time performance, i.e. it is all about the comfort and food amenities.

We take it only on vacations - we seem to do a lot anymore, which is as it should be . . . and we do find delays annoying.  Havin a sleeper compartment and a dining car helps if there are delays, of course.  What did honk me off on one long delay is that they closed the dining car anyway.  Staff said they were only paid to work until the scheduled arrival time! 

I travel on AMTRAK long-distance trains primarily as a vacation experience, and I try to avoid having any close connections that might be jeopardized by late arrival. I'm going to Chicago next month on the Southwest Chief. We're scheduled to arrive at 3:15 pm, and while I might have time to get to the Enterprise rental place on Madison by 5:30, I'm not counting on it, so I booked a hotel room for the night. I don't want any extra stress. 

 

This way of traveling is definitely a lot more expensive and more time-consuming than a direct flight from Tucson to Midway on Southwest Airlines, but I find it a lot more fun and worth the extra trouble and expense. My experiences with AMTRAK personnel have been good over the years.

 

Traveling only in case of absolute need might be beneficial for the environment, but I doubt that reduced demand would doing anything to improve transpiration services. And if you are talking about the steamship line "Cunard," then you should remember that most passengers were not traveling because of "absolute need" (except maybe immigrants in steerage), but on business and for vacations.

 

That's not good. This reminds of the time when we went to Cedar Point and the train ride CP&LER, it was 9:30PM, and the park closed at 11:00PM, but we were at the Frontier Town Station at it was 9:28PM and the train was still in the station and when we arrived, they said the train is leaving and it's the last run. But there were only about 25 people on the train. Each car can hold up to about 50 to 60 people and each train has about 6 to 8 cars. So we had to walk all the way back to the middle and front of the park. Even Amusement Park's are changing passenger trains. I do find it sad about what you said about the the staff only paid until scheduled arrival time. That's not good. But things do change.

The Providence & Worcester railroad delivers on the very same route that the 150mph Acela runs on.

I read on this thread that freight railroads are no longer giving priority to Amtrak trains or are uninspired by the low incentive & I disagree with that statement. I was on a tour of the Galesburg, IL yard, the second largest BNSF yard on their network, last Friday & during an hour-long question & answer session with an Operations supervisor, the Amtrak delay was brought up by a few elderly participants. According to this supervisor, BNSF gives Amtrak the highest priorities on their network & they do care about the incentives. Even though the main control center (not sure if this is the correct railroad term) is located in Fort Worth, TX, this supervisor monitors the schedule of every Amtrak train, some as far as 12 hours away to ensure that Amtrak gets the highest priority. He even manages the schedules of the freight trains under his control to avoid delaying the Amtrak trains or if the Amtrak train is delayed, he uses that opportunity to move some more freight trains.

To the extent I understood his answers, the incentive scheme is not a simple calculation. If the Amtrak train that use the BNSF network, gets to its destination on time, BNSF gets a larger incentive. But if the train enters their network late, but BNSF dispatchers manage to reduce the delay while the train is moving through their network by rerouting freight traffic around it or by holding freight trains in sidings, BNSF still gets an incentive for the reducing the delay.

But delays still happen. During a different answer he mentioned the limitations in the length of the available sidings that delay higher priority trains. If a low priority train with exceptional length like over 10,000 ft is running through a single-track territory where the typical sidings are around 7000 or 8000 ft long, they reluctantly hold the higher-priority trains in sidings so that the longer train can get to the yard.

These are just my opinion.

Naveen Rajan

I think you should sell all your model train stuff and donate the proceeds to the charity of your choice.  After all, you don't "need" any of it, right?

 

My point is, the whole point of freedom is not about "need".  I didn't work my butt off to I could only do things I "need" when I retired, and I doubt most other folks did either.  I do things I enjoy with my money, don't you?

 

As far as Amtrak getting their act together, if the ridership falls off 50%, where do you think the revenue will come from for them to afford to "get their act together"?

 

Well I don't know if it's any importance, but an Amtrak Passenger, which I believe is #49 Lake Shore Limited passed the Berea Ohio Railcam this morning at 3:17AM heading Westbound. I don't know if that's late or not? That means they probably left Cleveland about 3AM.

You guys complaining about jets should try business class once in a while, or even an economy plus upgrade.  Makes the whole flying experience much, much better.

 

And before anyone lambasts the cost of either, I have checked what an equivalent Amtrak sleeper set-up costs and it is not cheap, at all, so we are in the land of spending discretionary money already.

 

Talk about needing to take trips.  I know a guy who flies from the West coast to the East coast about once a week.  He spends a night in a hotel and returns the next day.

 

The only reason he goes is to accumulate miles for upgrades and an occasional free ticket.  He wants to get to a million mile point.  He figures if he does this for the next 3 years he will achieve his goal.  What does one get for a million miles?  He sure doesn't get any scenery or good food on a plane in coach.  

 

I think he is crazy to do this - so does his wife.

 

Joe

The flying doesn't bother me at all, at least once the plane gets in the air.

 

But Airport security? Screw that! Never more.  I won't check myself into temporary concentration camps so cowards and whiners can feel "safe".  Not a chance. I simply decline to allow all those people with evil intent to influence me in the least.  If it happens it happens, I'm not going to loose one second's sleep over it.

 

The last straw was about 7 years ago when I traveled for my employer cross country.  On the way back leaving Charlotte NC the plane pulled back enough from the gate to not be considered at the gate so all the passengers were just stuck.  And there we sat, because of weather, for over 2 HOURS.  And the worst part was listening to the flight attendants repeat until I was ready to be a terrorist "We're sorry for the delay, we appreciate your patience because FAA regulations say there isn't a D**m thing you can do about it if you are impatient, we own you". 

Careful of those weasels going to DC,  some may be IRS.

 

 

Did not think that through

Fair point.  If you fly only domestically, you should sign up for TSA Pre-Check.  If you fly internationally, you should sign up for Global Entry which allows you to essentially bypass most of the customs process on the way back in and use a kiosk instead -- no lines -- and then go through declarations very quickly.  Global Entry will also automatically register you for Pre-Check for domestic flights.

 

 

Well really sad day today, on the way back from Chicago we hit a little boy on his bike. Really sad. I just relieved the conductor,  and locked the doors up. 3 hour delay and the train ride is the most quiet ride I have ever experienced on Amtrak.

Is this thread on Amtrak Unlimited referring to the same train? It also mentions a 3-hour delay.

 

---PCJ

I guess I agree with the posters who want to avoid airport security.  I loved flying, but recall the times my passengers watched while their captain was checked for weapons and bombs.  I will take an airliner if absolutely necessary, and get free travel bennies on AA for life, but I will choose Amtrak when I can, even though average scheduled speeds are below 40 mph.

 

It is not only airlines - I need some welding done tomorrow, and the TIG expert is not based on the field. Airport management wants him to check in and be escorted to my hangar.  Welders are terrorists?  

 

We are down to 50% of 1977 flight operations, and most students now speak English as a second language.  Hopefully the railroads are still training engineers, because we are not training very many pilots anymore.

       

       


No. This was in Galesburg Michigan.  Then to makes things worse, lighting took out the signal system. We had to limp into Ann Arbor on restricted speed for a total of a 5 hour delay.

Right on, gunrunnerjohn!  I make no apologies for spending way to much time/money/effort on toy trains.  I worked too hard, too long, to not have fun now.  

My wife and I ride Amtrak a lot, and we do wish it was better, but they have a hard time role of it, like the post office, told to do a particular job, and particular way, with what are often political, not practical, boundaries, and here, in this country, for reasons others above have observed, railroads are not so important to the average voter than anyone cares.  While I wish things would get better, I realize its the best train service we have.  As to the dining cars, well, we nearly always meet interesting people to talk to there . . . 

I would venture to say that Amtrak has never done very well. Since it's inception, Amtrack has never broken even. They are storming back from this recession. In 2009 they received $1.488B in Federal funds and in 2013 that had dropped a whopping $144MM to only $1.374B.

 

I do look forward to taking at least one long Amtrak trip when I retire. Hopefully Amtrak will survive another 10 years or so. In the meanwhile, I'll keep working hard and keep sending in my "investment contributions".

 

Gilly

Out west here the Amtrak service is almost non-existent, we have the California Zephyr where we used to have 3 trains. They tried to get the Pioneer back a couple years ago, but the cost estimate from Amtrak was insane. Didn't help that none on our congressional delegation would support it, though those in the surrounding states did.

 

Trust me I would gladly take Amtrak from Salt Lake to Las Vegas or from Ogden to my vineyard near Portland given the chance

When I was in college, I would ride Amtrak from DC to NYC 6 to 7 times each year. I can only remember one issue and that was weather related (a bridge was washed out).

 

Last year was the first time I ever ventured beyond the Northeast Corridor. I rode from NYC to Cary, NC.

 

It was the worst traveling experience of my life. The train arrived 7 hours late. We sat on a siding for 3 hours waiting for a CSX train to pass.  The worst part was the lack of communication from the crew. Very few announcements and only toward the very end of the wait did we know why we were sitting there. 

 

Focus on the Northeast Corridor (possibly the Keystone Corridor) and scrap the rest.

I think that may have been true for some people, but not the bulk of them. That 30-50 year period is within my lifetime, and during that time people travelled 'for no reason whatsoever', whether it was yearly vacations, ski trips, or simply driving or flying to places they want to go to. What you are saying may have been true before or during WWII, but by the 1950's people in the US were traveling all over the place, by car, by trains (though less and less) and more and more by flying. Between the highway system for cars, and then deregulating plane travel (with the attendant lowering of costs), casual travel became more and more prevalent. 

Our local cable news station just did a little feature on taking the train from Albany NY to Montreal, Canada.

On the positive side, they stated that the ride is considered to be one of the ten most scenic in the USA (I have heard that Elsewhere).
On the not so positive side, they quoted the round trip fare to be over $100, and said the trip time was over eight hours.

I've driven to from Albany to Montreal more than once. I'd put the drive time somewhere around 3 1/2 to 4 hours. I'd guess that the cost would be about even if driving alone. Take along one passenger, and driving would be cheaper for me.

Driving from Albany to Montreal on the I-87 Northway is quite scenic too, once you get North of Lake George.

Eight hours is pretty excessive for that trip, it's less than 250 miles.  They must have a lot of stops.

 

 

Ten most scenic rides in the US? I absolutely believe that. It is beautiful! (Though, its the only train I've ever taken, other than NJ Transit. Lol)

 

I took the "Adirondack" round trip between NYC's Penn Station and Montreal once ... enjoyed it so much, I took it again the next time I needed to go to Montreal.

 

Its about 1/3 the cost of a non-stop out of Newark NJ's airport, but maybe 10 hours longer.

 

I thoroughly enjoyed the ride and the people I met .... and the food was good enough for me. I guess I was lucky? .... I did not experience any significant delays on any legs of the trips.

 

"High speed" or "higher speed" would be icing on the cake. But, I have no problem spending all day on that train.

"An 11hr trip wound up taking like 17hrs,"

 

The greatest thing about Amtrak is they do not charge you for the extra hours. The slower they go the more train ride you get - for free!

 

I rode LA to Seattle a few weeks ago, service great.  Love that dinner steak. You could beat the train with a bicycle most of the time. However, there was so much padding we got to Seattle on schedule.

 

WiFi is always a problem. I learned many trips ago to batch all outgoing email and at Portland, where there is always a Cascade Talgo on the next track with great WiFi, you can send and receive.

 

A weird coincidence, I was waiting in my roomette for the train to start when there was a commotion across the hall. Several staff, some from the station, were trying to explain the train to a Chinese tourist couple who did not speak a word of English.  And I, right across the hall, was the only other person, perhaps on the whole train, who spoke Chinese.

I live in Tallahassee and would like to travel to Arizona, but since Katrina the tracks do not accommodate passenger rail west between Jax and New Orleans. The bridges are certified for freight, but not passenger. I'd love to see that get fixed. 

Well, I took my annual NY-Pittsburgh trip this past weekend. NS hustled us right along on their section, and once again we raced an intermodal through the Pittsburgh suburbs and literally crossed in front of them and rolled into the spur track at the terminal, the NS freight being so close behind that it came through the station as we were unloading. I managed to get video of the entire train lumbering through Pittsburgh station from about 6' away on the platform. Oh, and we arrived about 20 minutes early.

 

The return trip was equally uneventful. It seems we wrong-rail for a good portion of the journey back on NS rails, since all the passenger stations are on the north side of the tracks. Freight traffic simply kept to the other side while we passed through, although we did our share of track-swapping between stations. We arrived in Philadelphia on-time...

 

just after our Dash-8 (above) belched an enormous cloud of smoke that had the passengers that saw it concerned that something important had blown up in the locomotive.

 

Back on the Corridor, we roasted merrily along at 125MPH, aside from some slow orders (related to the 160MPH-in-NJ project), and a brief slo-mo cruise to allow another train to roar past on the express track so we could fall in behind them.  

 I noticed on this trip that the GPS app I use (CoPilot) is now more willing to show your location on the tracks instead of going through desperate contortions trying to put you on any nearby street. Maybe is was a software update.

 

---PCJ

 

When it comes to Amtrak's full service Dining Cars, the expectation that many travelers have it far from present day reality.  Long gone are the days when the menu was extensive, and the on-board Chefs could adjust entrees based on personal preference.They did upgrade from the SDS days (simplified dining service) days by bringing back an on board grilled flat iron steak, and the use of fresh eggs at breakfast.

 

Today, about 1/2 of the dinner and lunch entrees are made "off-train" and reheated and/or prepped on board. The present LD menus are also standardized so you no longer have regional specialties, and offerings of that nature.

 

On the positive side Amtrak has become for more transparent about it's food operations via it's website, and it's newer food facts site.

 

http://www.amtrak.com/onboard-the-train-meals-dining

 

http://www.amtrakfoodfacts.com/

 

Ken