Another Kline Hudson gets the works! Tales from Harmon Shops

@leapinlarry posted:

Harmonyards, your picture of the 5344 on your work bench is Beautiful, my favorite hudson design. Thank you so much for your work on my Kline Hudson, it’s going to be a 1 of a kind in total performance.... WOW.

Oh you’re quite welcome Larry, .....thank you for agreeing with “ your FAVORITE design” ......see Lou??.....outclassed again, ......I’m actually piddling away at your brackets for all the electronics tonight while I’m pounding our good friend Lou into the dirt .....☺️

Pat

If I may post a comment or three here...  My vote for the most handsome Hudson is most certainly for the NYC version - there is just something intangible that displeases me with the AT&SF version, not quite sure what it is. The boiler face seems 'slapped on' compared to the NYC to me and the overall look is 'not as nice' as it's east coast brother. I've considered getting a model of the Santa Fe unit but just haven't been able to talk myself into it!

I read the piece on the MR F7s you posted Lou, quite interesting thanks. I remember reading a piece in Trains magazine from back in the early 70's (1973?) by the fireman on an aging PRR T1 Duplex that was pressed into service when a double headed K4 locomotive needed a replacement in Crestview OH I think it was. They pulled the T1 off of the back lot and hitched a sizable consist of mail cars and passenger cars and set out for Ft Wayne. On the last leg of the trip, they pushed her beyond the speedometer and covered the final 30+ something miles in less than 15 minutes. Estimated speed of over 130mph!

@harmonyards posted:

Semi back on topic are you squeezing the ERR CC in the boiler or are all the electronics going in the tender?

On Larry’s Hudson?......the CC and John’s Chuff stuff will all fit in the boiler, only the  RS stuff will go in the tender, .....this’ll make plenty of room for a nice whopper speaker, and keep the tether wires down to a bare minimum, allowing me to use the stock tether receptacle on the loco, and then use a straight tether so Larry can have a deck plate and what not,.....this way, we’ll get rid of that Anaconda of a factory tether.....it just cleans up what’s already the world’s most recognizable locomotive.........ever....😉

Pat

K-Lines came with a 6 pin tether, or was it 8? K-Line Berkshire I worked on had a 6 pin, but it started life as a conventional locomotive.

You doing dual speakers or a single one? When I put PS3 in that K-Line Berkshire I used a big 4ohm speaker for some nice, deep, chuffs. Not sure if twin speakers will fit in a Hudson tender. We're not dealing with Mohawks here...

The Kline’s have a 6 pin tether, ....putting as much stuff in the boiler as I can means I can get away with just a 6 pin tether.......plus using a straight 6, I can add deck plate to Larry’s and the tether will look like part of the auger system....it stops being an eye sore, and becomes a good looking part of the locomotive.....here’s my Kline with the MTH chassis swap, and you can see, no Anaconda looped all over the place....truly looks like an important part of the locomotive.....

@c.sam....yes!..your vote counts!...chalk up yet another for the J class......we’ll root Lou out with a stick!,....and everybody else is welcome ....to gang up on ol’ Lou....🤣

Pat

Harmonyards, that’s a fantastic scene of your awesome roundhouse setting, excellent colors, great track work, and a beautiful hudson just on the track outside the facility. I notice no deck plate on your model, are you going to ad more details to yours? I am so excited about how great this project is going, it’s a Wow. Thank you for all the fun. This thread is not only Heated, it’s Hot.... Keep the pictures rolling, your work is superb. Happy Railroading Everyone and Merry Christmas.

With the CC in the locomotive you're only running speaker, coupler, and backup light power to the tender so you're good with the 6 pin. Hopefully Larry is running his Hudson on 072. Straight tether might be an issue on 054 or 042, but 072 and wider and he's fine.

As for these NYC J class Hudsons I can't find any statistics where they are "best". The ATSF 3460 class, Milw F7, and CNW E4s all had more tractive effort, higher boiler PSI, more horsepower, larger drivers, and a higher top speeds. Just because the Js were "prettier" doesn't make them best. Statistically they are not even close .

Good morning Larry,

Hope you are doing well.   May I suggest that you have Harmonyards Pat send me your Hudson when its done so that I can run it on my layout. I will send it to you when I am done with it. You can trust a lawyer.  I would also appreciate it if you could send me a 2020 Honda CRV EX if you happen to have one lying around

Erol 

Lou 1985, thanks for chiming in as your and Harmonyards conversations makes for some great thoughts, which are mostly way over my learning curve. My layout has 072 diameter curves as the minimum radius, going to 081-090-099-0108. (Atlas O Gargraves, Ross Custom trackage) This way we can run most any engine or car made on this layout. We are actually mostly Legacy, however I fell in love with this particular K-Line TMCC Hudson and made a great deal with Pat to make this Steamer Great Again. I’m proud of his workmanship and focus on a quality build. This #5343 J1e NYC K-Line Hudson should be a good looking, fun to run locomotive. It’s a great time to be in the Hobby.

Beautiful layout Larry. That engine will look great pulling a long string of passenger cars which it will do now. 12, 13, maybe 15 even which is close to prototypical.

As for the straight tether, no worries. They came with a straight tether and it will still do 031. Most steam engines come with straight tethers anyway. I believe only MTH uses the big loop.

Pete

Larry, great looking Hudson and it will fit right in on your wonderful layout! I can see many years of fun running it!

@Lou1985 posted:

As for these NYC J class Hudsons I can't find any statistics where they are "best". The ATSF 3460 class, Milw F7, and CNW E4s all had more tractive effort, higher boiler PSI, more horsepower, larger drivers, and a higher top speeds. Just because the Js were "prettier" doesn't make them best. Statistically they are not even close .

You're probably correct Lou about the performance of the prototypes but I am strictly going by the visual appeal of the two to me personally - the west coast hudsons certainly are handsome in their own right!

In a similar fashion, I've always preferred the N&W Class A steamer over the venerable challengers and big boys for the reason that that the A's appear more 'hunkered down' than the others which in model form sometimes appear top-heavy to my visual perspective! Again, strictly personal. :-)

@leapinlarry, yes I have my deck plate, cab curtains and better figures for the cab on the ready, just haven’t installed them yet.....I had just finished proving this swap when you asked me to do yours, so I haven’t had a chance to pull mine back off duty, I figured I’ll catch it when it due for service,....it runs everyday of the week on the not-so keeping pace Pacemaker.....Since my good buddy Pete turned me on to Al Judy to finish my layout, I’ve turned into a bit of an operator!....I can’t take my eyes off his astonishing work!...So the Hudsons & Mohawks and the rest of the supporting classes got to earn their keep!..

as far as what’s next for yours, by the weekend I’m hoping to have some what I like to call dry runs happening, in other words, the Cruise Commander in, and some functional testing of the actual locomotive on the pike, doing its job!..hauling heavy stuff around!....won’t be any sounds, lights or smoke yet, but we want full control, crazy smooth performance, and tons of power....THEN we can add the fun stuff, sounds, smoke, lights, & details to make the 2 railers proud ( as much as they can be of us anyways) ....stay tuned!..

@c.sam ....don’t swell up Lou’s head anymore than it already is!..we already have a hard enough time getting him through the door!..🤣🤣🤣🤣🥲...good stuff on the thread....no?...

@Lou1985 keep things in perspective!....F7’s were known to throw things at you! .....( you know this, we read it and shared the info together!!) ....the green Twinkie ...( CNW) is about as appealing as your Goose ( again 🦤 bird) !..the Central rostered an impressive number of Hudsons, 275 total units, to be exact, only one was ever lost to accident....the rest finished their careers ...quite an accomplishment for as you say, an underpowered locomotive....no??......those ATSF Hudsons, yes powerful, are just no prize to look at, the NYC Hudson is such a powerful image, such a presence, even the most famous train it pulled, the 20TH CENTURY LIMITED, is always put on print in all capital letters....SO!.. even the history books recognize its significance,.....keep your HP and boiler numbers...the Central had style, grace & speed......you get one of those 3....sooooo...FAIL...😉

@locolawyer .....I’m sure you could head to Larry’s house and run the graceful lines of a locomotive that IS the NYC’s J class....no other Hudson compares!...named after the very river the locomotive was designed to run alongside!...all the others, wannabes.....ain’t that right Lou??...😁

Pat

@Lou1985 posted:

Just because the Js were "prettier" doesn't make them best.

Yes it does!!!

NOTE from OGR:  picture removed because of possible copyright.  Don't re-post it without following our TOS.

@harmonyards posted:

@Lou1985 keep things in perspective!....F7’s were known to throw things at you! .....( you know this, we read it and shared the info together!!) ....the green Twinkie ...( CNW) is about as appealing as your Goose ( again 🦤 bird) !..the Central rostered an impressive number of Hudsons, 275 total units, to be exact, only one was ever lost to accident....the rest finished their careers ...quite an accomplishment for as you say, an underpowered locomotive....no??......those ATSF Hudsons, yes powerful, are just no prize to look at, the NYC Hudson is such a powerful image, such a presence, even the most famous train it pulled, the 20TH CENTURY LIMITED, is always put on print in all capital letters....SO!.. even the history books recognize its significance,.....keep your HP and boiler numbers...the Central had style, grace & speed......you get one of those 3....sooooo...FAIL...😉

Pat

Hyundai sells more cars then Lexus. Quantity /= Quality . I venture to say The Chief is a little more famous train.....

In model form all the Premier Hudsons share the same chassis/driveline design, so the all preform pretty much exactly the same. Which means they'll all pull more cars than can fit on most layouts.

@Lou1985 posted:

Hyundai sells more cars then Lexus. Quantity /= Quality . I venture to say The Chief is a little more famous train.....

In model form all the Premier Hudsons share the same chassis/driveline design, so the all preform pretty much exactly the same. Which means they'll all pull more cars than can fit on most layouts.

Although I can appreciate your tactics change, since you’re  losing the argument, you are the one that cited boiler pressures, tractive efforts, etc......I’ve never seen those listed on the side of those purple or orange boxes?...am I missing something??......and the LTD. is so famous, so entrenched in literature, it’s even part of anything to do with the Art Deco time period!....the Chief??.....Chief who??....plllllllllleaseee.....try again.....gosh, I’d thought for sure you’d bring up the El’ Capitan before the Chief!....

Pat  

@harmonyards posted:

Although I can appreciate your tactics change, since you’re  losing the argument, you are the one that cited boiler pressures, tractive efforts, etc......I’ve never seen those listed on the side of those purple or orange boxes?...am I missing something??......and the LTD. is so famous, so entrenched in literature, it’s even part of anything to do with the Art Deco time period!....the Chief??.....Chief who??....plllllllllleaseee.....try again.....gosh, I’d thought for sure you’d bring up the El’ Capitan before the Chief!....

Pat  

Tactical change? From the one who went from NYC Hudsons can't compete on technical/statistical level to there were more of them so they were obviously better? All I did was point out the fallacy in the quantity = quality argument .

If anything SP's GS4 class Northerns are the most entrenched, well know, representation of Art Deco style in railroading. The 1937 20th Century Limited is a distant 2nd or 3rd, behind the Super Chief.

It also helps that all the best railroading icons still exist in physical form for future generations to appreciate .

Lou and Pat,

The following is what we need to agree to. The New York Central Hudson is one of the greatest locomotives ever. I have both the Lionel Vision Line Black #5344 and Grey #5331 Hudsons, the MTH proto 1 #5344 Hudson upgraded to proto 2 with LEDs by my very good friend Marty Fitzhenry, and MTH  proto 1 Empire State Express also upgraded to proto 2 with LEDs by Marty.

We also need to acknowledge that the Santa Fe F3 Warbonnet paint scheme is one of the most beautiful of all time. I have three Lionel SF F3 sets, 1958 2383 AAs, 2004 TMCC AA set upgraded to ERR 100 (from 32 speed steps) and RS 5.0 (from RS4), and a separate board and speaker put into the trailing dummy A by Gunrunner John, and 2018 Legacy ABA set. The trailing dummy A unit will shortly have a board and speaker put into it by Gunrunner John. Think of it, three units with sound that will all work together at the same time as they will be set to the same ID number. Should be nice and loud just the way I like it

Since I have several NYC Hudsons and Santa Fe F3s with the Warbonnet paint scheme and they get along, I think you guys can also agree to disagree and respect each other's opinions as both have merit. If you don't want to agree, a lawsuit can always be brought

Erol 

@Lou1985 .....again, tactical change, what in the world does bringing in a Northern to the conversation have to do with with a 4-6-4 wheel arrangement locomotive? ....the readership on this thread is concentrating on that discussion, stop clouding the discussion with far off topic machines......your dodge, perry, thrust & spin methods are being seen right through.....none of the named trains on the Santa Fe can hold a candle to the 20TH CENTURY LIMITED, ....far more famous than the Chief, the Super Chief, or the El’ Capitan...( I hope I spelled that right ) not a whole lot of info on the web about such a “famous” train.....if the ATSF was so much more glamorized, so much more romanticized, why didn’t Joshua Lionel Cowen jump on a train, and go to the ATSF to make his first big leap into the scale world?..instead ...he went with .......a NYC Hudson!....I wonder why??......

quantity/=quantity?..more like weak arguments = tactical changes!...

but listen buddy, there is hope for you, there is something you can take for this: .....so take two of these, and call me in the morning....😉

Pat

Pat,

I would be happy to take either one of the two locos in your photo above. Not looking to be greedy and take both.

Erol

@locolawyer posted:

Lou and Pat,

The following is what we need to agree to. The New York Central Hudson is one of the greatest locomotives ever. I have both the Lionel Vision Line Black #5344 and Grey #5331 Hudsons, the MTH proto 1 #5344 Hudson upgraded to proto 2 with LEDs by my very good friend Marty Fitzhenry, and MTH  proto 1 Empire State Express also upgraded to proto 2 with LEDs by Marty.

We also need to acknowledge that the Santa Fe F3 Warbonnet paint scheme is one of the most beautiful of all time. I have three Lionel SF F3 sets, 1958 2383 AAs, 2004 TMCC AA set upgraded to ERR 100 (from 32 speed steps) and RS 5.0 (from RS4), and a separate board and speaker put into the trailing dummy A by Gunrunner John, and 2018 Legacy ABA set. The trailing dummy A unit will shortly have a board and speaker put into it by Gunrunner John. Think of it, three units with sound that will all work together at the same time as they will be set to the same ID number. Should be nice and loud just the way I like it

Since I have several NYC Hudsons and Santa Fe F3s with the Warbonnet paint scheme and they get along, I think you guys can also agree to disagree and respect each other's opinions as both have merit. If you don't want to agree, a lawsuit can always be brought

Erol

 

This ain’t nothing Erol!....you should see our inboxes!...this is everyday 7 days a week, till we pass out,....perhaps a little background might help the legal counsel ....we’re actually good friends, sharing ideas, methods, schematics, motors, tests, parts back and forth, locomotives back and forth, ALTHOUGH!, ....you have to keep an eye on Lou, ....him being from Cicero and all....🤣🤣🤣...he’s shaky, flaky, and half baked,.....shake & bake!...

Pat

Pat,

I can tell that you and Lou are friends. Although I do not know Lou, my very good friend (RIP) Marty Fitzhenry was also a friend of his and told me he is a good guy. Just having some fun on this thread with you guys and Larry. I spoke with Larry a few weeks ago and he told me what you were going to do with his K-Line Hudson. You have certainly put a lot of work into it. I think Larry is going to be very happy with it. Keep the photos coming and do a video when you are done with the engine. Many of us would like to see that.

Erol

Clouding things?

You say NYC Hudsons are the best ever. I disprove it with statistics showing they are not.

Then you say that the NYC had the most Hudson, so they had the best ones. But quantity is not the same as quality.

Then they are best because they pulled the 20th Century Limited. But the Super Chief is a much more well know train.

Then you say the Dreyfus version of the Hudson is the most well know art deco locomotive, when clearly the SP GS4 Northern, another art deco locomotive is more well know.

Then I'm from Cicero, when I'm clearly from Chicago proper, which is far more corrupt.

Deflection upon deflection and falsehoods galore.

I rest my case.

At least we can agree that the PRR had the worst/ugliest steam locomotives. That's a fact. They never even had a Hudson. Such poor motive power decisions.

@locolawyer posted:

Pat,

I can tell that you and Lou are friends. Although I do not know Lou, my very good friend (RIP) Marty Fitzhenry was also a friend of his and told me he is a good guy. Just having some fun on this thread with you guys and Larry. I spoke with Larry a few weeks ago and he told me what you were going to do with his K-Line Hudson. You have certainly put a lot of work into it. I think Larry is going to be very happy with it. Keep the photos coming and do a video when you are done with the engine. Many of us would like to see that.

Erol

Marty is and always be a super hero in my eyes!...spoke with him many a time at train shows!...Marty was very kind enough to give me the quick nickel tour at my first York event not that many moons ago!....and he hardly knew me, but treated me like we were old pals!....legendary gentleman......now Lou, ...Lou’s lucky Pete & I let him like us!..🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Pat

@Lou1985 posted:

Clouding things?

You say NYC Hudsons are the best ever. I disprove it with statistics showing they are not.

Then you say that the NYC had the most Hudson, so they had the best ones. But quantity is not the same as quality.

Then they are best because they pulled the 20th Century Limited. But the Super Chief is a much more well know train.

Then you say the Dreyfus version of the Hudson is the most well know art deco locomotive, when clearly the SP GS4 Northern, another art deco locomotive is more well know.

Then I'm from Cicero, when I'm clearly from Chicago proper, which is far more corrupt.

Deflection upon deflection and falsehoods galore.

I rest my case.

At least we can agree that the PRR had the worst/ugliest steam locomotives. That's a fact. They never even had a Hudson. Such poor motive power decisions.

You make this stuff up as you go along man!!......I have yet to see an Art Deco anything reveal any hint of a GS locomotive!...I’ve seen tons and tons of Henry Dreyfus inspired 20TH CENTURY LIMITED images on everything from poster art, to lamp shades in Applebee’s restaurants for the love of Mike!...but yes, the readers have spoken and the case is rested, the NYC Hudson is 10 times more famous, was produced is greater quantity, had an impressive career, and is an American Icon the world over!...WHERE’s THE GOOSE IN ALL OF THIS.??.......you buddy.....I think is the only person on this forum EVER to post a build thread about a Blue Goose!...( am I wrong???) ......what about NYC Hudsons?...hit search, and it’ll explode when it finally loads!...hmmmmfff....ATSF Hudsons!???.....I’m not impressed,....you’ll hav to show us more,.....😴😴😴

Pat

Lou1985,

Just how much actual REAL steam locomotive experience do you have, i.e. working on the real thing????

I would be more than happy to debate your ridiculous assumptions/statements, as I have been on the crew of SP 4449 since 1975, and the UP Steam Crew, as a contractor, for about 17 years, ending in October 2010.

@Hot Water posted:

Lou1985,

Just how much actual REAL steam locomotive experience do you have, i.e. working on the real thing????

I would be more than happy to debate your ridiculous assumptions/statements, as I have been on the crew of SP 4449 since 1975, and the UP Steam Crew, as a contractor, for about 17 years, ending in October 2010.

I don't have steam locomotive experience, but I have years of experience giving @harmonyards a hard time about his NYC Hudson obsession 😉.

@harmonyards when we gonna see this on rollers running 1-2 scale mph? That's the beauty of these chassis/motors. Effortless low speed power.

I really wish there was a way to dyno these things before/after the swaps. Drawbar pull isn't the end all, be all. I'd love to be able to measure torque at the wheels on rollers.... so I know how far backwards one of those 3460 class Hudsons will pull that tiny J1e backwards while it spins its wheels 😄.

@Lou1985 posted:

@harmonyards when we gonna see this on rollers running 1-2 scale mph? That's the beauty of these chassis/motors. Effortless low speed power.

I really wish there was a way to dyno these things before/after the swaps. Drawbar pull isn't the end all, be all. I'd love to be able to measure torque at the wheels on rollers.... so I know how far backwards one of those 3460 class Hudsons will pull that tiny J1e backwards while it spins its wheels 😄.

Should have the CC in this weekend, and be doing dry runs on the roadway ....possible video this weekend, or the beginning of the week.....I’ll prove Larry’s Hudson for performance, then add the goodies.....the purpose of testing  like that is, without sound, it’s easy to detect any noises or anomalies that could show up from such an invasive swap, .....just like when I send you locomotives, we prove them before you install the PS kits, ......they’re proven before we add the expensive stuff......one time and done.....

there’s no doubt in my mind the model of the 3460 would drag a J class model,...those 3460’s are much bigger than a J class.....and a whole lot uglier.....so ugly, make a freight train take a dirt road....😉 there’s just no style!...now, in that dept. ....the ATSF Hudsons are clearly at the top.....so congratulations......🤮

Pat

Harmonyards, this thread is getting very exciting, (sometimes heated) your work is amazing, and your testing everything along the adventure before finishing the electronics is a great idea. Without sounds you can hear if there’s any rubs, noises, you might say hickups before more additions. I like your work ethic, Thank You.  I’ve spoken to Localawyer concerning these hudsons and I agree seeing the wheels turn will be lots of fun. You might say a Demo run on the race track.  He just purchased the VL black Hudson which is also a spectacular model. At one time my thoughts were the K-Line mold was the same used for the VL hudson. Either way, this K-Line Hudson is in good hands and when all is said and done, it’s going to be a fantastic Locomotive to pull some long trains on my layout. Keep the pictures coming. Hot Water, I sure enjoyed watching your video with Rich Melvin, OGR The Video. My layout was in OGR The Video 10. This is a super fun hobby, model trains are fun. Have a great weekend Everyone. Progress is in the air, let the fun begin. Happy Railroading Everyone

@harmonyards posted:

Should have the CC in this weekend, and be doing dry runs on the roadway ....possible video this weekend, or the beginning of the week.....I’ll prove Larry’s Hudson for performance, then add the goodies.....the purpose of testing  like that is, without sound, it’s easy to detect any noises or anomalies that could show up from such an invasive swap, .....just like when I send you locomotives, we prove them before you install the PS kits, ......they’re proven before we add the expensive stuff......one time and done.....

there’s no doubt in my mind the model of the 3460 would drag a J class model,...those 3460’s are much bigger than a J class.....and a whole lot uglier.....so ugly, make a freight train take a dirt road....😉 there’s just no style!...now, in that dept. ....the ATSF Hudsons are clearly at the top.....so congratulations......🤮

Pat

That's the key to this: smooth running before any command control. We've both been in those forward facing RS385 K-Line chassis. There is just no way to make it smooth at low speed. We tried. Even your Pittman swap into that chassis can't compare to swapping the entire chassis. Larger motor, more low speed torque, makes for perfect low speed performance pulling a train. Larry will be pleasantly surprised how much better his Hudson is going to run. It'll put a Legacy version to shame 😉

Brawn, speed, and style. Things those ATSF Hudsons had over the NYC Hudsons in spades 😉. Actually if you check the test stats between a 3460 class and J3a there isn't a huge amount of difference according to the tests performed by each road. So fire up the DeLorean, go back to 1940, find two identical 12 car heavyweight trains, and run 'em. Good old fashioned drag race.

Here ya go Larry a concrete example. I converted a K-Line Berkshire, with the same forward facing RS385 motor, to PS3 for a friend. With the K-Line chassis and motor the locomotive just doesn't have the low speed torque/smoothness to run cleanly below about 10 scale MPH.

Pat and I talked about it and, like with your Hudson, we decided the best course of action was a chassis swap, in this case a Lionel chassis from there Legacy version. Pete checked parts fitment and found the Lionel chassis was a drop in swap. Lionel used the same tooling as the K-Line Berkshire but put the motor in the firebox, as God intended. Same Pittman motor Pat is using in you Hudson. Pat had to machine a custom flywheel to fit but it all dropped right in after that.

No comparison. Rear facing motor chassis/large Pittman is a beast. You're gonna love it.

@Lou1985 posted:

That's the key to this: smooth running before any command control. We've both been in those forward facing RS385 K-Line chassis. There is just no way to make it smooth at low speed. We tried. Even your Pittman swap into that chassis can't compare to swapping the entire chassis. Larger motor, more low speed torque, makes for perfect low speed performance pulling a train. Larry will be pleasantly surprised how much better his Hudson is going to run. It'll put a Legacy version to shame 😉

Brawn, speed, and style. Things those ATSF Hudsons had over the NYC Hudsons in spades 😉. Actually if you check the test stats between a 3460 class and J3a there isn't a huge amount of difference according to the tests performed by each road. So fire up the DeLorean, go back to 1940, find two identical 12 car heavyweight trains, and run 'em. Good old fashioned drag race.

Brawn yes, ....speed, debatable ....they both were powerful for the jobs they were assigned, .....style, this is a NO.....FAIL ....we’re getting close to being in agreement but you just can’t get the concept that the ATSF Hudson is an ugly duckling....now IMO, and this is opinion only, the longer Northern looks more appropriate....the ATSF Hudson looks like a crumpled up shortened version of that Northern no??....I’m not going by anything but looking at pictures......good thing I can look away, the ATSF Hudson hurts my eyes,.....wish I could un-see what I’ve seen....🤣

Pat

@Lou1985 posted:

Brawn, speed, and style. Things those ATSF Hudsons had over the NYC Hudsons in spades 😉. Actually if you check the test stats between a 3460 class and J3a there isn't a huge amount of difference according to the tests performed by each road. So fire up the DeLorean, go back to 1940, find two identical 12 car heavyweight trains, and run 'em. Good old fashioned drag race.

Except,,,,,,,,,,the Santa Fe 3460 class were quite slippery, and even the best Engineers had a heck of a time starting a good sized train. They also tended to "lose their feet", i.e. slipping, at speed. The NYC J3a locomotives were equipped with a booster on the trailing truck, and thus could start a substantial passenger train with ease.

We used to have TWO of the J's, one the first MTH Premiere model and the K-Line. What a beautiful site to see these two in operation!

@c.sam .....wow, that’s a beautiful layout!....sure dwarfs mine!...

can’t help but to notice, ....I see no ATSF Hudsons, ......anywhere.....do you @Lou1985 ??.....interesting...😉

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

@c.sam .....wow, that’s a beautiful layout!....sure dwarfs mine!...

can’t help but to notice, ....I see no ATSF Hudsons, ......anywhere.....do you @Lou1985 ??.....interesting...😉

Pat

Are there Hudsons in that picture? It's hard to tell. Those eastern road locomotives are so tiny It's hard to tell if they are there 😄.

I think we're all waiting for the video of that chassis swapped K-Line to be lugging a 8 car heavyweight train, something that stock motored one would die trying...

Also you know what's a ATSF Hudson? Most postwar Lionel Hudsons....

https://www.tandem-associates....trains_2055_loco.htm

All this talk about "Hudsons". Someone please show me where the Hudson river flows through Kansas and New Mexico.

The only true "Hudsons" are those on the New York Central. All the rest are just plain ole 4-6-4's

On a side note the ATSF 4-6-4 never made it onto an album cover.

The Dreyfus was on a Commodores album and  Van Halen thought it was so cool, they copied it decades later:  http://www.feelnumb.com/2012/0...ovin-on-album-cover/

C Sam, Wow, Beautiful Hudson’s, beautiful layout, thanks for the gorgeous pictures. Happy Railroading

@Lou1985 posted:

Are there Hudsons in that picture? It's hard to tell. Those eastern road locomotives are so tiny It's hard to tell if they are there 😄.

I think we're all waiting for the video of that chassis swapped K-Line to be lugging a 8 car heavyweight train, something that stock motored one would die trying...

Patience grasshopper!...much to learn, have you?..hmmmmpf?...

Pat