@RonH.....here’s a better pic of the combination lever on Larry’s build,....all of the MTH and Kline and even the Lionel’s have this “kick out” to clear the cross head guide...only straight one I see is on a Williams Masterpiece J3a like yours....here’s a close up pic....I just checked it, works like a champ....
Pat
I really enjoy your threads Pat. 
Between all thats going on these days, and the this don't work, that don't work, Mth is closing etc etc on the forum.
Its nice to hear someone say. No worries, we can fix that and its gonna be better than ever. Can't wait for the finish product videos. Interesting and positive, can't beat it.
On top of that. Its also nice change from, what are you preordering? and whats the best type of grease to use? etc threads.
Excellent Thread'... I have the original very heavy Williams Hudson, from the 80's. I researched all the competitors , and after a couple of years, I finally found one on the Bay at a fair price. It sat in a glass case in a LHS for many years. The traction tires were rotted away. Too difficult for me to change them, so I removed them completely. Polished her up a bit a little oil, etc.
She pulls 15 heavies plus, on 3 and 4% grades with ease. Minimal slippage at very slow speeds.
It's a matter of beauty verses power. I prefer the power'...
@harmonyards posted:You’ll be pushing it to its limits on a grade....my biggest issue with these stock is how much heat is generated pulling 6 heavyweights for any sustained time....and I run on the water level, so my track is level, no grades...and it was run on generous O81 & 090 ....after 30 minutes of run time, the quirky problems begin to show themselves....not acceptable to me....my run sessions can last for hours on end, and I don’t want jerky action.....watching 6 heavyweights bang together, jump back & forth is no fun for me...I’d be curious how your Kline does on that 2.5 grade after an hour of running with a real train behind it...10-12 heavyweights is the norm for all my Hudsons/ Pacifics....for many hours on end....my train room is on the main level of my house, so I can run trains all day long.....my other Pittman powered Hudsons by Lionel & MTH have no problems with very long trains, 6,7 or even 8 hour trips...I build 90% of my locomotives, so I build them for low amp draws, plenty of power, and strong drivetrains....I have ERR equipped ex-Pulmor Mohawks with thousands of hours logged....so well built, service intervals are 500 hours...and when Oct- Jan rolls around it doesn’t take long to get those hours racked up...I can entertain guests, and run trains, I can cook, and enjoy the trains, I can be anywhere in my house, and enjoy the trains,...I’m the exception, not the norm.....
Pat
I guess I must have a rare good one then.... My 5344 will pull 7 k-line heavyweights and two rea cars for a couple hours around the club layout at a reasonable pace without breaking a sweat. She stays pretty cool to the touch most of the time. I keep her very well maintained and lubricated on all moving parts. Only issue she ever had was a bad cherry switch.
@Brian DeFazio posted:I guess I must have a rare good one then.... My 5344 will pull 7 k-line heavyweights and two rea cars for a couple hours around the club layout at a reasonable pace without breaking a sweat. She stays pretty cool to the touch most of the time. I keep her very well maintained and lubricated on all moving parts. Only issue she ever had was a bad cherry switch.
You must have, most suffer from anemic performance on home layouts, with 5-6 heavyweights, heating up and doing quirky things....it’s a known fact these Hudsons have a very tiny motor, and are problematic when they heat soak.......it’s a 50/50 thing...some are satisfied, others not...just out of curiosity, what’s your club’s radius on the curves?...
Pat
@harmonyards posted:You must have, most suffer from anemic performance on home layouts, with 5-6 heavyweights, heating up and doing quirky things....it’s a known fact these Hudsons have a very tiny motor, and are problematic when they heat soak.......it’s a 50/50 thing...some are satisfied, others not...just out of curiosity, what’s your club’s radius on the curves?...
Pat
Our tightest curves are O72, but I usually run her on the outside main that is O96 i think.
I have to agree with Pat, I've seen a lot of these, and the wimpy motor just isn't up to continuous running. Yours must be blessed. 
Never had issue with my Kline berks with their small motors but then again smaller drivers, lower gearing and I always run them in a lashup pulling freights not heavyweight passenger cars.
@Brian DeFazio posted:Our tightest curves are O72, but I usually run her on the outside main that is O96 i think.
I can vouch for Brian. I have seen his Hudson run on the club layout. Actually I think the inside curves are 096, then 104 and 112 for the outside curve and it is flat.
Pete
FCTT-Hirailers
This is a great topic, I don't know how I haven't commented already. Educational & informative as well as great to watch.
Updated progress on Larry’s Kline Hudson...the last report saw the completion of the marrying of the chassis to the boiler shell......we were just in the beginning stages of mock up.....now that things are falling into place like I want them, we’ve begun coloring, and chemically blackening the necessary parts...we’ve stripped the paint off the MTH drivers, and treated them to some black oxide as well as the frame sections that were trimmed in the fitment process...I’ve left the new mounting screws in their zinc finish, so y’all can see where I mounted the MTH chassis to the new stub plate under the boiler casting....we stripped and painted to match the grey MTH steamchest, and added the correct valve and rod gear that Larry & I discussed recently.....we knocked that out of the park!...we completed the snifter valve install with detachable plumbing, making it easier for Larry to service if the need arises....parts from the MTH pilot are combined with the Kline pilot to make the best looking pilot assembly......now we can really see what things are shaping up to look like....fit & finish are looking over the top...next order of business is to modify the front pilot truck with more scale sized wheels, and add the rear truck...that’ll complete the rolling chassis ....once we have a smooth rolling chassis, it’s on to the inside......
Pat
Harmonyards, your work is amazing, thank you so much for your attention to detail, I see the red paint above the drivers on the valve handles, so cool. Wow. It just gets more exciting ever time you show progress on this K-Line Hudson. All I can say is this is a fantastic project. Simply Amazing.
Modelling or is it fabricating at its best.
Here’s some more updated progress on Larry’s Kline Hudson....
I haven’t had much time in the RR shop due to work, but I did manage to get done some work tonight....here’s Larry’s Hudson in full roller status....we’ve fitted the Kline rear truck to the MTH chassis, and built a front truck with much more appropriately sized pilot wheels....front truck parts are MTH frame, Lionel wheels, and Kline brake detail...
Larry’s pretty much out of the woods as heavy fab work is concerned, so now we’ll turn our attention to power and electronics.....beautiful model so far....we’ll add some cool minor details, like a better headlight lens, reflector and bulb as we go along....but now it’s time to begin work on the inside.....
Pat
Pat
Looks great! What product do you use to chemically blacken the rods and rims?
Thanks,
Mike
@Hump Yard Mike posted:Pat
Looks great! What product do you use to chemically blacken the rods and rims?
Thanks,
Mike
Mike, the rods remained the chrome finish, after Larry & I discussed what the final product should look like....the drivers and drive block were treated to a bath in Caswell’s cold black oxide solution .....great product, easy to use, and affordable .....they have a wide range of black oxide products, for different metals. This is the product for steel, but it works great for zinc, brass, and other metals....except stainless, but they have a special oxide that does that.....take a look at their website, it’s easy to navigate, and you can purchase directly from them, no minimum orders....
Pat
Thanks Pat!
I have several early ps1 steam engines that were upgraded years ago, but still have the shiny rods. More fun projects for this winter.
Mike
Pat,
To blacken the drive wheel rims, do they need to be removed or can they be left on? What is your process for this?
@Hump Yard Mike posted:Pat,
To blacken the drive wheel rims, do they need to be removed or can they be left on? What is your process for this?
No....no need to remove wheels.....process is quite simple, if you plan ahead, and prepare the chassis.....the chemical is a water base, so you’ll want to remove everything from the chassis, but the drivers.....the chassis MUST be spot on clean!..no grease, no oils no nothing.....all the grease must be removed from the gear well.......I use parts washer solvent first, and remove all the grease and oils...then I’ll use compressed air to blow the chassis dry and look for grease spots or oil....repeat till free...blow dry, then give the chassis a bath in dawn soap with a tooth brush, this is to get it past water break, while in the soapy water, I’ll use a scotchbrite pad to lightly scuff the shiny rim flange, this prepares the shiny chrome surface to accept its fate and turn black.....after you’ve dunked it for a couple minutes, pull the chassis out, rinse, and wipe the rim area to check and see if the acid has “bit” ....repeat till desired darkness...then rinse with hot water, blow dry, and soak the chassis with a penetrating oil, like WD40 or similar..this does two things, it’ll displace any remaining moisture, and it’ll soak in to where the acid began the blackening process.....and give your work piece a good blackened luster....
Pat
Pat, Wow, it’s looking fantastic, I’m so happy. When you add all the detail parts, deck plate, curtains, the ERR systems, the Gunrunner Johns smoke Chuffer System with the MTH smoke unit, Awesome.... This is Exciting. Thank you for doing such a thorough job on making this a world class Hudson. Harmonyards, a great place to make your dreams come through. Happy Railroading Everyone, it’s a fun time in the hobby of model trains. Thank You Pat.
Update on Larry’s Kline Hudson chassis swap:
now that we’ve completed making the majority of things look as they should on the outside, we can begin to turn our attention to the whole reason we came here in the first place, the large Pittman drive train......we begin by selecting the right size Pittman to squeeze into the back of the Kline cab area....we use a 9433F686 Pittman for this job, the stock MTH mount will need to be relocated slightly to allow the Pittman to go by as the boiler is mounted to the chassis...the flywheel has to be custom made here in the shops to clear the Kline boiler shell as well....although the new motor is NOS, we’ll still dismantle it completely make sure everything is cleaned and well lubricated before assembly begins, worm shaft, bearings, spacers and shims are all carefully inspected and properly lubed for installation.....the motor mount is machined for flat head screws so the flywheel can sit back in the pocket of the firebox, so when we’re doing this swap, the fight is moving the motor forward, but the flywheel back, or it will be an ugly soar thumb protruding through the bottom of the ash pan area ....we’re not having that....also note the motor wires are pre-wired in ....ready for the next step...also note, yes, I like all my parts polished like jewelry, no, we’ll never see them again, but I know they’re in there, and having high quality hand made parts let’s me sleep at night...😉
Pat
Harmonyards, Fantastic work, I’m so excited seeing this great progress. So, what’s the next step in line for this amazing Hudson? How soon will the electronics be installed and when might we see a test run? Thank you very much for the neat pictures and beautiful chassis and powerful Pittman motor and superior quality hand made parts. Simply awesome, keep the pictures coming. This is a Wow. Happy Railroading Everyone
@harmonyards posted:...also note, yes, I like all my parts polished like jewelry, no, we’ll never see them again, but I know they’re in there, and having high quality hand made parts let’s me sleep at night...😉Pat
I like your altitude. 
Nice touch making the inside looks as good as the outside. Just like old world craftsmanship.
Thanks for chiming in Gunrunner John, and I’m excited about having your chuffing unit in this rebuild. It’ll also have your smoking system, ERR and more. It’s going to be a really cool hudson.
Needs more best Hudson 
.
@Lou1985 posted:Needs more best Hudson
Annnnnnnnnd, .....where did that Hudson come from??....go ahead and tel them,....they already know....🙃
Pat
@harmonyards posted:Annnnnnnnnd, .....where did that Hudson come from??....go ahead and tel them,....they already know....🙃
Pat
If you want to get technical it came incomplete and required several sources to make whole .
@Lou1985 posted:If you want to get technical it came incomplete and required several sources to make whole
Ya mind stopping dancing around the inevitable?....do you need exclamation marks!...to make it clear to understand!..let’s not be technical!..
Pat!
@harmonyards posted:Ya mind stopping dancing around the inevitable?....do you need exclamation marks!...to make it clear to understand!..let’s not be technical!..
Pat!
You provided the base parts. Still needed to source some components and decals to make it whole. Nothing like the latest gem you found.
Those ATSF 3460 class Hudsons are much nicer than the NYC pieces .
My esteemed colleague Lou, @Lou1985 ...you’ve opened Pandora’s box on a proper thread to do so, .....let the bashing begin!...I’m sure Larry won’t mind, we are talking about the sleekest hot rod to come out of Schenectady, which IS the NYC’s J class of Hudsons.....pure grace standing still, ...NOW, your Baldwin built ....shall we say, 🥴....to look at, is about as romantic as a fart.....and don’t get all excited about your precious Goose, ....more of a do-do bird, since it’s as sleek as an Easter egg.....thank god they only made ...what??......one??.....even they said ..”bad idea”....how many Dreyfus designed Hudsons??....1,?...2?....how bout 10?...that’s popularity buddy.....look at the lines!...it screams elegance!...big difference between the two, ....a sleek race horse, or a dump truck....
Pat
If those NYC Hudsons were so good how come they all got scrapped? There's still a couple ATSF Hudsons around .
No J class was doing this: Remembering the Distance Record of Santa Fe 3461 — Coalition for Sustainable Rail (csrail.org)
@Lou1985 posted:If those NYC Hudsons were so good how come they all got scrapped? There's still a couple ATSF Hudsons around
No J class was doing this: Remembering the Distance Record of Santa Fe 3461 — Coalition for Sustainable Rail (csrail.org)
They kept yours around to remind people what not to build...........
Pat
@harmonyards posted:They kept yours around to remind people what not to build...........
Pat
I thought they just took that NYC stuff out with the trash on garbage day? Is that what you do with recycling ?
We're both not quite right though. There is only one best Hudson: Milwaukee Road class F7 - Wikipedia
@Lou1985 posted:I thought they just took that NYC stuff out with the trash on garbage day? Is that what you do with recycling
We're both not quite right though. There is only one best Hudson: Milwaukee Road class F7 - Wikipedia
Nope, ....a distant second place to the NYC is the F7, .....good news for you though, the ATSF is in 3rd......😉
Pat
I've yet to see any speed or distance records for the "mighty" NYC Hudson . Seems like they are lacking in the performance arena.
Lets not get started on that overrated NYC Northern......
@Lou1985 posted:I've yet to see any speed or distance records for the "mighty" NYC Hudson
Lets not get started on that overrated NYC Northern......
The Central did not have to run away from the ugly......yes, I concede to the historical facts, which I’m sure you’ll bring up, about the tractive efforts, HP, etc.....but what my grandaddy taught me rings true for the “mighty ATSF” .....
” if you’re gonna be ugly, you’d better be tough”
Harmonyards, your picture of the 5344 on your work bench is Beautiful, my favorite hudson design. Thank you so much for your work on my Kline Hudson, it’s going to be a 1 of a kind in total performance.... WOW.
@harmonyards posted:The Central did not have to run away from the ugly......yes, I concede to the historical facts, which I’m sure you’ll bring up, about the tractive efforts, HP, etc.....but what my grandaddy taught me rings true for the “mighty ATSF” .....
” if you’re gonna be ugly, you’d better be tough”
Too tough to scrap apparently .
Semi back on topic are you squeezing the ERR CC in the boiler or are all the electronics going in the tender?
Semi back on topic are you squeezing the ERR CC in the boiler or are all the electronics going in the tender?
On Larry’s Hudson?......the CC and John’s Chuff stuff will all fit in the boiler, only the RS stuff will go in the tender, .....this’ll make plenty of room for a nice whopper speaker, and keep the tether wires down to a bare minimum, allowing me to use the stock tether receptacle on the loco, and then use a straight tether so Larry can have a deck plate and what not,.....this way, we’ll get rid of that Anaconda of a factory tether.....it just cleans up what’s already the world’s most recognizable locomotive.........ever....😉
Pat
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