Anybody watching the History Channel Series - "The Men Who Built America?"

We saw that too and thought that the time frame was 1890+ which would be well before old Josh Cowan produced his first 0-8-0?

Post WWII Lionel train, track, and transformer time warped to late 1800's. And in the Commodore Vanderbilt segment, many of his locomotives are quite obviously European design. One even has a brake van right behind the steamer. In other scenes, huge North American locos that are decades out of place can be seen. It's history portrayed dramatically.

I watched the episode on Commodore Vanderbilt and John D. Rockefeller.  Having read a biography on Rockefeller earlier this year, I noticed that the writers / producers had made up a number of things that they presented as fact; I guess to enhance the story either for their own satisfaction or what they perceived their target audience would want to see. 

I've always had an interest in history and have no time for any telling of history that doesn't stick to the facts.

Curt

I watch the history channel a lot. I have been watching that series. I also observed the train last night in action. Now, not having a real good  knowledge of all the trains I sucked it up. I just thought AC ok AC train, I believed it. Guess I better start being a little more cautious on some of the writers/producers methods even with my favorite channel.

Larry

There are a number of historical and other inaccuracies in this series (I think its part of National Geographic so you would think they would get it right).  In depicting the railroads they intermingle British and American trains; in depicting the bridge across the Mississippi they show three different versions, but in spite of this its interesting and worth watching. bertiejoa

In one of the earlier episodes there were several shots that I am pretty sure were filmed at the Strasburg Railroad facility. This is a very well done series and I think the last episode will be Sunday night at 8:00 EST.

It's a really interesting series, but I wish they hadn't used so many British railways in the early episodes about Vanderbilt, Rockefeller, and Scott.

Phil

There have been a lot of technical flaws with this series. I caught the Edison bit too. In the first episode, did anyone else catch Milwaukee Road 261 time warped back to the 19th century. I guess to the average viewer, all steam engines look the same.

What I'm really enjoying is the connections between the tycoons.  Vanderbilt contracted with Rockerfeller.  Rockerfeller pressured Scott causing Scott to almost lose the PRR.  Scott's side kick was Carnegie.

Amazing connections.

"A very good series, we need more men like them to rebuild America after these past 20 years or so."

I would agree except for the parts where the 3 men worked their workers in dangerous filthy conditions for 16 hour days with low pay. For that those guys are evil.

Rob

Just as we see with today's "1%'ers", some of the tycoons of the so-called "robber baron" era WERE evil but the overall effect of industrialization was to bring unprecedented social progress to the working class.

yea...... i've been watching it -pretty good ,the inaccuracies dont bother me at all.-jim

Not to get political, but much of the "social progress" came from the organized labor movement with concessions dragged with much kicking and screaming out of men such as Morgan, Vanderbilt, Carnegie, etc. In the present, labor and social groups are still tarbrushed as anti-progress, anti-capital, anti-whatever - let's remember where you got your minimum wage, 40 hr. week, safety & health regulations, clean air and water, food, drugs and so on. It didn't come handed-down from the goodness of the benevolent "1%". Don't romance the past, there was much ugliness that we prefer not to see.

unions had their day back in the early part of the century. They need to go away today, they are a ban on businesses and its why only 6% of the private work force is union. They do nothing but create problems for business.

- I enjoy it -thought i noticed a few  european engines filling in, These guys where what I  call dreamers-ambitious-self willed-wouldnt see them waiting around to get something for free  or blame anyone but themselves for not making good decisions. 

 Well you made it political:

I dont apologize for anyway this country was built."

Greatest country in the world in under 200 years period, in addition you  werent  born back then.

Just as we see with today's "1%'ers", some of the tycoons of the so-called "robber baron" era WERE evil but the overall effect of industrialization was to bring unprecedented social progress to the working class.

I always wondered why 49% of the 99% who covet the 1% dont start their own businesses and pay everyone big dollars and benifits ?

How many would put your house up for hawk tomorrow for your dream? Many of the 1% have done just this.

  Vanderbuilt-Scott- etc..  took HUGE chances -risked it ALL many times and lost tons of sleep. Its called capitalism, you call it a Monopoly. LOL  I admire these guys and self made business men, not look to extort them. 

I have worked for both non-union and union companies, and on the whole I prefer having a union to deal with companies.  The average corporation doesn't give a d*** about their employees.  12-16 hour days still exist in some US industries.

John

Amen.

In regards to filming locations - a good bit of the parts about Tom Scott/Pittsburgh Riots were obviously Strasburg.  "Johnstown, PA" is the lower town/National Park area of Harpers Ferry, WV with CGI water added - and Tom Scott was apparently buried in the cemetery there as well.  Vanderbilt lives in a house on S Samuel St in Charles Town, WV (built on the site where John Brown was hung) and John D Rockefeller seems to live on an upper floor of the old Post Office/Federal Building on W King St in Martinsburg, WV!  Although the train footage is obviously "stock/whatever" - it is nice to see some vintage steam in HD for a change...

The "history" is what it is, I'm just getting a kick out of playing "name that (local to me) filming location! 

Never noticed the locations but I'm really more interested in the people involved and how our nation was built. It is amazing how they put everything on the line to build a business and in the process build a nation.

"The right to work states have the right idea"

Yeah, slave wages and crap work conditions. Do you like things like paid holidays, sick leave, a five day work week, a 40 hour work week? If so, thank the unions that fought for and achieved these things.

I'll bet you never rang a timecard in your life except to test the clock before buying it for your business. Try running your business without prosperous customers.

The engine looked to be a current Lionel 0-8-0.  The shots of Scott's torched PRR yard included the Reading camelback at Strausburg (sp)

I'm glad you know me so well, not!!

Pretty much this,dont hate the player hate the game,if you dont want to play theres another game that exists.

Once was my favorite cable channel, along with HGTV.  These days, "History Channel" is a misnomer.

I think accurate history is fascinating on its own.  I don't see why anyone has to change the facts.  It's hard enough to determine the facts when historians are honestly trying to get it right.

Didn't take long for this thread to hit the switch and divert to the dumpster.

If anyone missed it so far, they are running a marathon Sunday at 2pm est, leading up to a new episode (the last one) at 8

I read 2-3 books a week, and most of them are "historical fiction" (a made-up story set in a acurate historical background...usually up to the 1960s). It's mind-blowing how often the facts are wrong...such as people listening to WWI news on their radios.

I saw the MR 261 all shiny as she emerged from the steam & smoke and called to my wife "Look - we've got that locomotive!" A nice touch.

All tycoons are flawed to different degrees but to quote Chuck Colsen (of Watergate fame)  "When was the last time a poor man gave you a job?"

It takes vision and guts to build a business of whatever size and not all men are so inclined. Fortunately there are good men out there who truly care for their employees and treat them kindly. My ex-father in law owned a successful maritime tugboat operation with 23 boats worldwide at one point. He was uneducated but built a great company and treated his people like family. That produced loyalty. They loved and admired him and everyone did very well. Admittedly, he was an exception but it can be done.

In Scripture it says "It is the Lord who gives power to get wealth"

That MR 261 footage looks suspiciously almost exactly like the scene from its cameo in the movie "Public Enemies" - stock footage anyone?

(I'm also, for S, G & F, trying to determine what movie the street scene establishing shot - for both NYC and Pittsburgh, the one with the horse-drawn carriage & cobblestone streets etc. - was lifted from...)

Still, a good and interesting TV series.

I am kind of a history buff, I highly recommend it. Some of the train scenes were European and some others were too modern for the period depicted.
The electric train scene with Edison and J.P. Morgan definitely featured a late prewar or a postwar Lionel. But who cares? It is a great series and I suppose they have to make some compromises to stay within budget. It is well worth watching.

Saw the first 2 episodes,I have them recorded and will watch the rest. Despite the shortfalls the series is interesting and informative. Those interested further can research the actual facts further.

I admired Jay Gould and his innovative strategy of printing extra stock certificates,watering them down and cheating other shareholders. Much like today where our government prints money and waters down the earnings of those holding dollars diluting its value. History does repeat itself.

Dale H

Richard

The funny thing about your observation is that I commented to my wife as I saw a scene of an 1880s house. How hard it would be to replicate a street scene of 1880 and not have anachronistic props of modern society in the scene. Think of all that is around us now that was not there then. Paved roads,telephone poles, electric lights,cars,airplane noise, aluminum siding,asphalt shingles,double paned windows, etc. Even the wrenches used on the pipes were too modern. My Grandfather was a tool and die maker and I saw some of the tools he made for his own use.

I restored an old school building and realized how hard it is to get authentic period materials. It is a compromise to restore things like that as it is to make the series. Notice also that women in the series are always in the background knitting and unimportant.The series made me think a lot.

Dale H

Railroads for one.  Still up to 12 hour days and until recently the rest period between runs was pretty short.  The maritime industry for two.  I've done both, and I'm still working on ships.  That's 7 days a week, for months on end.  As I'm getting closer to retirement I hold myself to 6 to 7 months away in a year, when I was young I went away for 8 to 9 months, once for a whole year.  Now, as an officer, I don't have to work more than 12 hours a day per USCG regs.  As a unlicensed seaman, they could work me up to 16 hours a day.  At the non-union companies that I started at I would sometimes go much longer than that - despite the law.  Sleep deprivation rules there.  My friends who drive long haul trucks don't have it easy either.  At least now with the union I get overtime, medical, and retirement.  I'm well aware of the shortcomings of some unions, fortunately my current one is pretty decent.

Back to the thread, It is a very interesting show.  Hopefully young folks are watching and learning something.  History doesn't seem to be covered much in schools these days.

John

Yes, it is a very interesting show.  But the problem I have is that I don't know where true historical fact ends and dramatic license begins.

I stopped watching it after I learned that the "history" was embellished.