Anyone have a Lionel Milwaukee E-6 Need Help

I don't have one, but I did a quick web search for images and a few came up on auction sites.  But this link seemed to have the best ones I could find. Hope it's of some help. 

 

http://www.collector-modeltrai...log_item/MT-0249237/

I have a set from the previous release.  From what I can tell this set appears to look just like the set I have.  It's really a spectacular looking set of engines-being E units they are long and the AA set is for course even longer.  The colors look good and the units seem to me to be right on for details, etc.  Of course I don't count rivets but combined with the rib side passenger cars that were released with them the whole train is spectacular IMHO.

OK Don, here you go - fresh off the memory chip. This is one BIG locomotive - it's hard to read the yardstick in the third photo, but each unit is over 18" long, an inch over 3 feet for the pair. They are a bit fragile on the details - you have to handle them carefully to avoid damaging the lift rings, etc. I have also had trouble with the hatch that covers the smoke unit filler in the center of the unit. It's fragile, and the knob came off and I had to glue it in place. The knob is hard to work because it's small and smooth and there's a lot of friction on the latch. On the other hand, it does smoke pretty well, and it looks good smoking out four stacks per unit. 

 

The grey doesn't look quite right to me, for some reason - maybe it's just the lack of contrast, maybe it's something about that particular paint formulation. The photos make it look a bit better than it looks to me in person. Still, it's a very nice looking engine. I'd have preferred for Lionel to have painted it in the E7 scheme with black roof, rather than the as-delivered all-grey. The E6 units had their roofs painted black sometime after the E7's were delivered. I've thought about doing the roofs in black, but I have a lot of projects to do and that one has low priority, since the paint is correct as is. Just for fun, I added a photo of an MTH E8 in the E7 paint scheme at the end. That paint job is correct for an E6 or E7, but NOT for an E8/E9. (The Milwaukee actually had E9's, not E8's, but they are outwardly identical. The E9's were delivered in UP yellow.)

 

For some reason, Lionel set these units up with different numbers for the front and rear units, instead of setting them both up as #1 as they've done on other power-dummy sets. To get both units to play together out of the box, you have to address them with a TR number - the instruction manual tells you how, but if you're used to pulling a set out of the box and everything runs off ENG 1, you're going to wonder why the sound doesn't work. I did. 

 

To clarify a couple of things, according to the Lionel website, there have been 3 runs of the E6: Rock Island and ACL in 2001, Southern in 2003, and Milwaukee Road and Santa Fe in 2004. It would be correct to run them with the 18" Lionel ribside cars (actually issued to go with the Hiawatha Atlantic), but I prefer the Weaver cars, which are scale size and the colors are more prototypical than Lionel's over-saturated version. It would also be correct to run these with the 1948 streamliners with the Skytop observation. 

 

Here are the photos:

 

 

" there have been 3 runs of the E6: Rock Island and ACL in 2001, Southern in 2003, and Milwaukee Road and Santa Fe in 2004."

 

they also did FEC "The Champion"

Does the Burlington E5 count too?

What I posted is the results of a search on Lionel's product finder. If that isn't complete, so be it. 

Thanks everyone for your help, it really does help. For the life of me I don't know why Lionel does such bad renditions of their Diesels. Their steam engines are generally photographs and look great. Southwest Hiawatha I agree with you. The gray looks light to me also and it seems in need of a black top. It looks a little plain jane to me.

Never thought I'd say it but I think the Williams E-7 looks better but I have too many fires going to buy one and detail it and load it with new electronics. Thank you again everyone. Don

Don

 

Take a close look at an actual photo of the Williams E7 and compare it to a photo of the prototype. The lightning bolt is badly off and it looks awful.

Southwest, I'm not thinking of buying a Williams engine though I know they have good points I was just saying the color looks better. I think I will save a little more and look for a Milwaukee S-3 steamer. Don

Good choice. Don't forget, there's a Weaver brass one that may turn up at a favorable price now that the Lionel one is out. I like them both; Lionel has some advantages but nothing wrong with the Weaver either. It's got 4 chuffs and puffing smoke. 

Considering the amount of detail on the Milwaukee E-6 set and the $600+ price tag, it's a shame they screwed up the rectangle herald. On this early paint job it should read "Chicago Milwaukee St. Paul & Pacific" vice "The Milwaukee Road". I would think anybody who runs Milwaukee and wanted to buy the E-6 set would expect stuff like that to be correct. Who wants to do a decal project when it could have been done right to begin with?

Both Lionel and MTH have a nasty habit of getting things "almost right." Drives me crazy. Lionel matched the Hiawatha Atlantic with ribside cars, which is prototypical, but they neglected to paint the maroon semicircle on the tender that the railroad added to extend the stripe onto the engine. They gave the Hiawatha an air horn, which is correct, but used a dual-chime sound rather than the correct single-chime. The very worst one along that line was when MTH did the Milwaukee F3's in the "lightning bolt" scheme. The catalog picture showed the correct dark grey freight colors, but the actual units were painted in light grey like an E unit. I could go on and on... I still like the Lionel E units, despite the fumble on the herald. MTH got the E7 paint job and the herald right, but put them on the wrong E unit. 

"I have also had trouble with the hatch that covers the smoke unit filler in the center of the unit. It's fragile, and the knob came off and I had to glue it in place. The knob is hard to work because it's small and smooth and there's a lot of friction on the latch"

 

a GINORMUS pain!!!  also on Lionel's E7's

 

 

i like the look of the milwaukee E6's.  scale, if you know where some are and don't want them, lemme know.  

Where are the diaphragms ?

Didn't come with diaphragms. See the catalog pic in Scale Rail's initial post, it shows the unit without a diaphragm. 

That is the point. Scale models should come with diaphragms when applicable.

Good point. They also should come with the correct period herald, correct paint, correct sound files, and a whole bunch of other stuff. As I posted above, both Lionel and MTH have a nasty habit of getting things "almost right." Fortunately, the lack of a diaphragm is a lot easier to fix than some of the other mistakes our suppliers have foisted off on us. 

Good gosh, how much do two diaphragms cost. I can see Williams not having any. They have a price point to make but Lionel? Don

One more question for the rivet counters out there and i'm not one but I truly trust your judgment. There is MTH ABA E unit for sale. To me, it looks much better than the Lionel version. Again I really don't care if a few small things are not perfect. I like to build a nice looking railroad and run trains. Thank don

I assume you are looking at the MTH E8 in the "lightning bolt" paint scheme as shown in the picture I posted above along with the Lionel E6. The MTH set has one, and only one, drawback. That paint job was never applied to an E8/9. It is correct for an E7, which has the square windows like an E6 but the bulldog nose like an E9 or an F unit rather than the shovel nose of an E6 and earlier. If that isn't a problem, it is a very good looking set and runs like any other Proto-2 diesel, which is to say just fine. MTH made two runs of them; I think the first run, which is what I have, has the 5v boards and the later run has 3v, but I am not sure of that. You should be able to pick up a set for under $500, maybe closer to 400.

 

By the way, in looking at the E6 pictures as posted, I see that the grey color came out pretty blue looking, at least as it shows up on my screen. In reality the grey is much more  neutral; the second picture is the closest to what it looks like in real life. The grey still doesn't strike me as quite right. Maybe a bit too light, I'm just not sure what bugs me about it. 

 

Here's another pic of the MTH E8, showing some of the detail. Note that it does have the correct CMStP&P herald, but the herald didn't come out very well - it's low contrast and a bit muddy. The picture shows it accurately. You can see a lot more if you click on the icon and view the picture full size.

 

Here's another shot of the Lionel E6 I found tucked away in an obscure corner of my computer. It's a heavy crop and a teensy bit out of focus, but the grey is closer to what it really looks like and it shows the set in context. Still looks a tad bluish to me, but mainly on the pilot and other parts that are reflecting the flash back at the camera. 

 

I have asked  many times on this forum without getting an answer, about after market diaphragms. Is there a source or not? I love the photos and the layouts are wonderful on this thread.

 

The pilot on this MTH model appears 'crude' and devoid of detail. I've not seen one in person however, but your MR and these Lionel Santa Fe E6's appear to have a much more realistic pilot.  Also,  what is the very visible red 'wire' in the cab?

 

 

Once again thanks all. I'm not a guy that's going to worry that the wrong paint job is on a E-8 as apposed to a E-6. Like I said I'm a runner and it's really not going to bother me. Having said that, I do like the square windows much better and I agree with Sam, the pilot on the MTH E unit is very plain. It looks like something from a early Lionel F-3. You guys have helped me a lot so I guess I'll stick to my plan and try to save for the Lionel Milwaukee Steamer. Thanks Don

  Don - It's odd about the pilots. We recently acquired some early premiere FT's that are very well-detailed in all other respects with wipers, vent wings, grabirons, and the like, but the pilots look like you said - an early Lionel F3!

I asked around and it seems that Mike started using 'scale' pilots in 2004 - 2006 phasing them in on the various F and E units.

 

Midwest Hiawatha mentioned that there may have been two runs of the MTH E6s in MR and if so, perhaps the second run has different pilots?

 

 

Schumann,  I may have a couple (2) of diaphragms from the older K-Line heavyweights that I'd be glad to send to you if that would help. I glued a pair to the rear of some diesels awhile back to good effect.

Brasseur Electric Trains has the K-line diaphragms. I got a good supply a few years ago. I think they still have some. Don

Thank you Don on he Diaphragm info, I will contact them. I have an Weaver Shark and I would like to add the diaphragms. I already converted it to PS 2

Bob

Hi Don:  I bought the Lionel E6's when they came out a few years ago.  Some of the complaints mentioned by Southwest and others are valid, that is the knob for the smoke compartment.  Mine came off a long time ago and I just leave it alone.  The hatch cover seems to stay in place pretty well without the latch arrangement. 

 

As to the color; I wish I had been around in 1941 (actually I was but I don't much remember these engines.) to authenticate the actual color of gray.  I can't tell if it's too blue, although mine has a decided beige tone to the gray.  And the engine looks OK to me.  My main gripe is also the diaphragms, or the lack thereof, but also the coupler spacing between the units.   There is too much of a gap between the units and I'm looking to replace the couplers with some shorter shank versions.  I tried and failed to glue some rubber diaphrams in place.  Guess I'll have to be a bit more creative.

 

This engine, often called "Famous 15" by some of the old Milw heads, was really the engine that convinced management to dump steam power.  So therefore, of course, for us dye-in-the-wool steam guys, this engine represents the dark side.  Interestingly enough, right at the same time, before WWII the Milwaukee also bought a pair of Alco DL109's (actually DL107's on the Milwaukee, but that's another story.) which were no where near as successful as the E6.  Numbered #14 (A&B but both were "A" units) they became known as Old Maude on the road.  Apparently they spent more time in the shop than on the road.  The E6's were also both "A" units, although they were officially numbered 15A and 15B, due to union regulations.  The Milwaukee did not own any passenger "B" units until after WWII with the advent of the FM Erie Builts.

 

Anyway, from an historical standpoint, plus their excellent operation and strong smoke production, I think the engines are very nice, and some of their faults can be fixed or at least improved.  I also bought a pair of the Williams E-7's, Milwaukee of course, and they are more correctly a darker grey color.  But this darker grey did not appear until after the War, so I think that they are pretty correct, too.  I did add TMCC to my units, but not smoke.  I just think that the slant nose of the E-6 has more class than the bull nose did.  Just a matter of opinion, I know.

 

Paul Fischer