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April York 2016 Legacy Users Group Summary

MartyEMartyEOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBERMEMORIAL SUPPORTER

Please feel free to add anything I might have missed...

 

First the question submitted via the forum...

 

  • When will see the next WiFi app upgrade giving more features of the remote? (iCab?) JZ - iCab will see upgrades with more features on an ongoing basis.  The next upgrade is not scheduled, but in development with some neat functionality added.

 

  • Will Lionel produce the stand for holding an iPad when using the LCS iPad app and that appeared on page 140 of the 2013 Signature catalog? If a Lionel LCS iPad stand was also a charging station that would be fine as long as that feature didn't "jolt" the price. Otherwise, a non-charging stand to hold the iPad would be great. JZ- Sorry, no plans for this product to be made.

 

  • The legacy system is currently at 1.6 when will the next update of the legacy system be made and any idea what new icons we will see? JZ – No upgrade is planned at this time.

 

  • How long will Lionel continue to warrant the legacy system? MR- For the foreseeable future. We have not charged for a legacy repair yet (unless it was a blatant issue, like throwing it against a wall, etc.)

 

  • Any chance that in the future the legacy system will operate the Lionchief plus engines? JZ - reviewing, but unknown at this time.

 

  • I recently noticed that in the summer 2013 issue of the Lionel Railroader Club Inside Track magazine, an overview of the LCS iPad app and the SensorTrack concluded as follows:

 

"To illustrate the power and flexibility of the LCS components, Jon Z. says you can deploy just the WiFi, iPad App and an LCS controller to operate a DCS or even a traditional throttle control layout [emphasis added].  Very powerful and flexible indeed."

 

What does that mean???  JZ – The Wifi adapter has a “no base” switch.  With this switch setting, the Wifi module will link to the iPad and be able to operate LCS modules, such as the ASC2 without a Legacy system in the setup.

 

  • Question applies to the eTrain App which is part of the Lionel partnership program---The owner of the APP does not know the answer to the question. On the sensor track screen in the eTrain APP, there is a listing of engine data with values such as status, fuel level, odometer, burn rate, run time, etc. to name a few. Some of the measures are obvious others are not. Could you tell us what are the units of measure is for each piece of data? JZ – this information is presented as is by the eTrain App. There are no specific units of measurement, just values we may expose for play value in the future.

 

  • In many cases, multiple users at organizations are offered bulk purchase discounts on applications and hardware. Question - For the application, will there be a group license available at a reduced rate for clubs that utilize the LCS WiFi Application?  JZ LCS is a free app, so I am guessing the iCab app?  We do not have a way to discount the app, and the features will improve over time.

 

  • What are the plans, if any, in LCS to provide for the operation of automated cars that need an operating track to make them operate? JZ – some controls exits, for example the un-coupler feature is supported on the ASC2 module.  We are always looking to enhance the LCS line-up, and appreciate the requests and feedback.

 

  • On the LCS APP, when you build a layout or section of a layout, could there be an option to color a section of track or switch? This could be used to indicate an elevated section of the layout, or for whatever you wanted to highlight a section of the layout for. A procedure like available for the switch direction designation or the color available for the label function. JZ – yes we can do this, we will consider the feature for a future upgrade to the LCS app.

 

  • Has it been determined if the STM2 will work correctly with Z-Stuff's Z-2500 switch machine when the Z-2500 is operating in command mode through the DZ-2001 Data Wire Driver? JZ – the STM2 does not work with the DZ-2500.  We may offer a solution in the future.

 

  • I often thought it would be nice to have the "time" show up on the hand held screen. Is it possible? JZ – maybe we can implement this in the Cab-2, engineering will review the concept for a possible future update.

 

Some other things that were discussed in the meeting…

 

*We demo’d the upcoming additions to the High Rail App.  These include Legacy engine control.  The layout of the control is designed to minimize the need to look at the iDevice.  Brian Coyner is looking for some feedback and what folks would want to see added.  The app includes gestures for some functionality such as coupler control.  Some folks expressed the desire for more labeled controls.

 

*We also demo’d eTrain console.  We showed the new WiFi connectivity.  We discussed the ability to download the Legacy database into eTrain as well as the BPC2 panel. 

A question arose for eTrain if it could be used on a Windows tablet for mobility and could the windows be re-sized.  I’m hoping Harvey will chime in.

 

*Mike Ficco showed a small controller that controls engines, switches and other functions.  It isn’t ready for sale yet but it uses IR transmitter to talk to his control box.  The control box connects to the SER2.

 

The iCab App was discussed a there was a general feeling that a free version with limited feature set should be offered as a “test drive”.

 

Mike Reagan concluded the meeting with some general discussion and Q&A.  Some of the points form this…

 

  • Smoke fluid loader was brought up. Mike explained the easy way to prime the unit.  After setting its ID, put it back in program mode and use the boost / brake rocker brake to stream it through the system.

 

  • Also in the same vein of smoke. Mike talked about smoke fluids and smoke units.  He of course recommended Lionel premium in the engine for best operation and to avoid needed repairs.  He can tell immediately if Lionel premium isn’t used when a unit comes back for repair.  Mike also talked about the wick material not burning but being gunked up with hydrocarbons.

 

  • He also explained again the testing procedure for all repaired locomotives. He explained that for 3 hours the engine is ran at speed step 1 which is the most taxing setting for the locomotive.  If it stops running within the 3 hours it is taken back for further repair.

 

  • He discussed factory training. It was discussed that it will no longer be offered.  In place of this they will be doing YouTube videos of all repair procedures.  You can download and repair your own engine (with a heavy disclaimer at the head of the video) or return it to Lionel for service.

 

  • Mike discussed the features many folks don’t use. Such as the 20+ levels of smoke, RR speeds, and TrainLink.

 

 

The meeting wrapped up with many attendees happy with the buffet setup.  If we move to this approach, we will require a much tighter head count.  Alexander’s was very accommodating but let me know that they cannot plan for 40 guests and only have 20 eat.  In the fall we will be requiring a more stringent commitment.

 

Once again we would like to thank Lionel, especially Jon Zahornacky, Mike Reagan, Rudy Trubitt, and their teams.  Alexander's for providing breakfast and our meeting place.  We would especially like to thank the Legacy Users for their continued support and for participating.  Until next time please take a look at the LCS Partner Flyers and please contact them with suggestions and questions.

 

 

 

 

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Last edited by MartyE
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J jojofryOGR Forum Member
MartyE posted:
jojofry posted:

Theres not gonna do factory training ? Man that's insane . So no schools to make techs ., sigh 

I'll be 100% honest with you.  I'm not sure if that was Mike being Mike or if he was serious.  He did mention that he is looking to hire a video editor to do the repair videos.

Why don't they charge people like mth does .. They don't loose money and they get more techs .. It's a no loose for them.. It's insane that no one can go to school .. There's a lot of willing people wanting to learn. Some days I wonder . 

Last edited by jojofry
Dave45681Dave45681OGR Forum Member
jojofry posted:

Why don't they charge people like mth does .. They don't loose money and they get more techs .. It's a no loose for them.. It's insane that no one can go to school .. There's a lot of willing people wanting to learn. Some days I wonder . 

He mentioned the term "herding cats in NC".  It sounded partially like the problem for Lionel was offering the class often enough for interested dealers to send techs with different scheduling challenges (or maybe the challenge was offering the training often enough for the number of techs involved - wasn't 100% clear).

-Dave

gunrunnerjohngunrunnerjohnOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
jojofry posted:
MartyE posted:
jojofry posted:

Theres not gonna do factory training ? Man that's insane . So no schools to make techs ., sigh 

I'll be 100% honest with you.  I'm not sure if that was Mike being Mike or if he was serious.  He did mention that he is looking to hire a video editor to do the repair videos.

Why don't they charge people like mth does .. They don't loose money and they get more techs .. It's a no loose for them.. It's insane that no one can go to school .. There's a lot of willing people wanting to learn. Some days I wonder . 

MTH does not charge to attend their ASC classes, you just have to provide your own transportation and housing.

J jojofryOGR Forum Member
gunrunnerjohn posted:
jojofry posted:
MartyE posted:
jojofry posted:

Theres not gonna do factory training ? Man that's insane . So no schools to make techs ., sigh 

I'll be 100% honest with you.  I'm not sure if that was Mike being Mike or if he was serious.  He did mention that he is looking to hire a video editor to do the repair videos.

Why don't they charge people like mth does .. They don't loose money and they get more techs .. It's a no loose for them.. It's insane that no one can go to school .. There's a lot of willing people wanting to learn. Some days I wonder . 

MTH does not charge to attend their ASC classes, you just have to provide your own transportation and housing.

Oh I thought it was 250.00 my bad .I got bad information then. 

FM Former Member

They're gonna do classes, they're not gonna do classes, they're gonna do classes, they're not gonna do classes. Make up your fricken mind already and stop messing with the people that really want Lionel training. I am looking for trainig that theyre not going to put into youtube videos like board information, troubleshooting and schematics

dk122trainsdk122trainsOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBERMEMORIAL SUPPORTER

Thanks Marty for the report and all you do, one thing that Mike stated which is very true in relation to service is that the trains of 30 years ago or earlier are 80 percent mechanical and 20 percent electronics, fast forward and the trains are now 80 percent electronics and 20 percent mechanical.So how many techs are verse in both or just one side of expertise. That being said would the average person with no formal electronics background or education, its not just plug and unplug boards, pass the class! Food for thought.

Marty FitzhenryMarty FitzhenryOGR Forum Member MEMORIALIZED MEMBER

Don, I have been to a great many schools in my life.  The Lionel school was very involved.  Mike Reagan taught every class personally and I learned from the best.  Three sessions a day.   I had to study board pin outs for months before the school started.  It has all paid off.    The documents I received from Lionel has been very helpful fixing Lionel trains.  You are not allowed to buy the documents unless you pass the class.  The same goes for the board tester.  I value both very much.

S sinclairOGR Forum Member
MartyE posted:

 Mike discussed the features many folks don’t use. Such as the 20+ levels of smoke, RR speeds, and TrainLink.

 

But I use all of these every operating session.  The TrainLink is great for the vision reefer.  If Lionel released more cars like the reefers and tankers, I'm sure this would get used a lot more.  I think the problem is there just isn't much product that even uses the TL, so of course it isn't used much.  Add the ability to make adjustments to MUed locomotives with it, and I think you'd also get more use out of it.  I'm still working on learning and using the 20+ smoke levels.  I must still be doing something wrong as when my steamers sit idle or have been running at the same speed for 5 min, the smoke just about vanishes, even after I just add fluid.  So I think Lionel could work on making the smoke units do better at maintaining smoke output and the levels more noticeable, then that'd get more use.  As for RR speeds, that's how I run them.  I hate the fact that I can't use them with some control settings, like in Cab-1 mode.  I'd rather have full stop added to the speeds along with a + and - button and remove the red knob on the remote. But then I am a father that ends up running trains after work while holding the baby who seems to want that big red thingy badly so he's always reaching over and bumping it.

So I guess I'm saying I'd hate for Lionel to remove these features as they would reduce my enjoyment as they are pretty much what sold me on Legacy control.

J jrmertzOGR Forum Member
MartyE posted:

Mike emphasized they are not removing them. Just that the average users don't necessarily use them. 

I can see people not using all the features.  As I bought new engines, I was so busy enjoying the looks and sounds of the new engine, you forget what features every engine can do.  Recently, I had only one engine out of the box and rediscovered many of these great features.  Like Train Link.  

MartyEMartyEOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBERMEMORIAL SUPPORTER

Remember to comment, for those who attended, on how the food was and the buffet vs serving.  Since I can't eat I don't know how it was.  I did have many positive comments through out the day after the meeting so I just want to get a good feel for when we start planning for October.  Again if we do the buffet we will have to be a little more stricter on head counts.

Thanks

Andy HummellAndy HummellOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER

I liked the buffet a lot.  The food was good, too.  While I never had a problem with the service in the past, I do know that other have, and that with people arriving at all different times, I can easily see how it could get confusing for the servers.  I think the buffet is the way to go from now on.

My only additional comment was that, while I heard that a gratuity was built into the price of the breakfast, and even if this is true, I still think we should be given the opportunity to tip more - those ladies do a good job.  They did put out a tip jar at the end (after a number of people had already left), and I contributed, but maybe you should add a remark on the matter to your closing statements next time so that more of us have the opportunity.  I think the ladies deserve it.

Andy

Dave45681Dave45681OGR Forum Member
Andy Hummell posted:

My only additional comment was that, while I heard that a gratuity was built into the price of the breakfast, and even if this is true, I still think we should be given the opportunity to tip more - those ladies do a good job.  They did put out a tip jar at the end (after a number of people had already left), and I contributed, but maybe you should add a remark on the matter to your closing statements next time so that more of us have the opportunity.  I think the ladies deserve it.

Andy

That's interesting, because a similar discussion ensued at the table I was sitting at. 

I hadn't seen anything to infer the tip as being included, so when I walked in and paid, I did quick math in my head and added I think $3 for the tip when I paid at the register.  I'm assuming the lady at the register put it in a tip jar and didn't donate it to the owners of the restaurant.   I do agree that the "pay as you enter" model does make dealing with tips more challenging though.

I looked over the original thread and I suspect that level of detail got lost in the shuffle because the event evolved into the buffet after Marty's original announcement.

As to thoughts on the buffet, I thought it was fine.  I liked everything I had. 

I do tend to not try to assign "value" (bang for the buck) to a meal like this though, as I understand we are taking up a space in their restaurant for over an hour.  I spent more than I would have at McDonalds, but I also had better options.

-Dave

Last edited by Dave45681
CAPPilotCAPPilotOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
MartyE posted:

Mike discussed the features many folks don’t use. Such as the 20+ levels of smoke, RR speeds, and TrainLink.

Sounds like I missed a good meeting.  I just couldn't get myself psyched enough to sit in the car for that many hours with my bum leg.  I didn't think about the buffet.  While I plan to never miss another meeting, I will let you know if I can't make it as soon as I know. 

Mike's comment is interesting.  I initially did not use many of the features.  Now I use the RR Speeds with momentum set at 4/5 to slow the train to the speed I want going into sidings/ yards/ stations and accelerating when exiting them.  Once in the yard, though, I do use the knob.  Just starting to play with TrainLink with the diners, as well as some other features.

UPDATED comment

Last edited by CAPPilot
Chris LordChris LordOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
MartyE posted:

I really hope in the fall to have the video return.  Our photographer had prior commitments.  I would have preferred a  more detailed report but work this week has been brutal and doesn't look good for the coming weeks.

Marty,

Thanks for doing this and getting out the recap.  

If you need I can do the videos.  I do some for the NJ Hi-Railers and I enjoy the occasional editing session.

I thought the buffet was a good idea.   I enjoyed the food.  I second Andy's comment.  You should mention that a top jar is out and that if we enjoyed there help we should tip.

 

Last edited by Chris Lord
JohnGaltLineJohnGaltLineOGR Forum Member
Marty Fitzhenry posted:

Matt, people do not get invited to the Lionel schools because they want to go.    This is not something you get to walk into.

Sort of a catch 22 in my opinion.  In pretty much every other field, you can get the training before you go looking for a job.  from what I can tell, with certified techs, you need to be referred by an authorized repair shop.  It would be nice if members of the general public had a way to sign up for classes to be certified, even if there is some fee involved to cover the expenses of the training.  I wouldn't mind being able to walk into my LHS with the paper in hand and asking if they could use some part time help, but I'm not interested in working sales for a couple of years until someone says 'Oh, how about some classes now'.  

As for the idea of training videos, I think this is great, as they will probably cover all of the common issues anyway. 

JGL

gunrunnerjohngunrunnerjohnOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
JohnGaltLine posted:
Marty Fitzhenry posted:

Matt, people do not get invited to the Lionel schools because they want to go.    This is not something you get to walk into.

Sort of a catch 22 in my opinion.  In pretty much every other field, you can get the training before you go looking for a job.  from what I can tell, with certified techs, you need to be referred by an authorized repair shop.

That doesn't work either, I have no problem getting referred by a Lionel authorized repair shop, but I still can't get the training.

MartyEMartyEOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBERMEMORIAL SUPPORTER
gunrunnerjohn posted:
JohnGaltLine posted:
Marty Fitzhenry posted:

Matt, people do not get invited to the Lionel schools because they want to go.    This is not something you get to walk into.

Sort of a catch 22 in my opinion.  In pretty much every other field, you can get the training before you go looking for a job.  from what I can tell, with certified techs, you need to be referred by an authorized repair shop.

That doesn't work either, I have no problem getting referred by a Lionel authorized repair shop, but I still can't get the training.

You can't go if they are not offering a class. Sort of a catch 22. I would love to have them offer a class. I don't work at a LHS, except for seasonally doing Legacy, DCS demos and updates so I'm not sure that qualifies. I'd like the training just to make the Legacy meeting more than it is. If they do the YouTube route I'll make the best of it. 

Last edited by MartyE
gunrunnerjohngunrunnerjohnOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
MartyE posted:

You can't go if they are not offering a class. Sort of a catch 22. I would love to have them offer a class. I don't work at a LHS, except for seasonally doing Legacy, DCS demos and updates so I'm not sure that qualifies. I'd like the training just to make the Legacy meeting more than it is. If they do the YouTube route I'll make the best of it. 

BINGO!   It's pretty hard to go to the classes when there are no classes!

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