@superwarp1 posted:No surprise and the right move. If I was a betting man, I'd say we have a 60/40 chance of Oct happening. All depends on how the vaccine rollout over the next eight months goes.
Gary:
Totally agree. It was a foregone conclusion that the April York Meet would be cancelled because the vaccine rollout has not progressed very much so far. I am far more optimistic about the October York Meet being held. Here's hoping.
Pat
@Putnam Division posted:Just moved my Hampton Inn, Shrewsbury reservation for the 3rd time.......it makes me sad to think about the evening and night staff who have worked there for years and treat all of us train nuts who regularly stay there as family.....I hope they are alright in these tough times.......
Peter
I haven't made a reservation since October 2019 York. I'll probably hold off again and see how this plays out but I am ready for York when it happens. I say we have a great chance of a fall York. If not I'll find something else to do. Like I said Carlisle has car shows all year and I'm not really a car guy but we can't sit at home forever.
If we look around at any train show, we will see that the majority of those attending are of "a certain age" and are probably no more likely than a young person to CATCH the disease, but are especially prone to a serious even deadly result if they do. Also- many of those who exhibit are probably not "young" either.
Imagine exposing these to hundreds, in a closed hall? And how many HANDS touch and pickup the trains on display? If we look at the practices that are in place to "safely" run a public business- wiping everything down, sealed packaging, building ventilation, and social distancing - we see the wisdom of this decision more clearly. Should those displaying trains have to wipe them off w/ alcohol after every touch? All these would be the recommended things to do. And what about the financial losses to the Eastern Division TCA if they "social distance" all those "private" dealer tables, cutting down the exhibitor fees by 50-66%? And operating at a 50% reduction in attendance??
And for the hobby- imagine the headline: "Hundreds of senior citizens contract Covid 19 at a York model train show". It would look and be very dumb to do.
Maybe- in the middle of the summer, outside in a huge field somewhere like the Carlisle Fairgrounds, where the Corvette and other shows are held?? Carslisle Events held shows all last summer and as far as I have seen there were no major issues.
Here is where you can go to see their protocols for Covid:
Hey I’m on board. The EDTCA has to do whatever is in the best interest of the meet and the safety of their membership.
@JD2035RR posted:Literally, nothing said in this thread has been political - including comments that have been removed.
Perhaps the fall York will be the biggest in recent memory.
Not true. There is one comment, possibly tongue in cheek, about a York protest. Another comment saying that the restrictions are "constitutionally questionable". These are dancing on the edge of political commentary, and I'm glad that people have largely restrained themselves. Whether or not one agrees with the sentiments, I'm on board with the guidelines - keep the politics out of the train hobby.
Ok, I have to say it! Letter writing campaign. Protest, whatever. The TCA is doing what is best to protect its members and let’s just remember it is a Train Show. You might want to go, yes but is it really worth taking the chance of getting sick and possibly worse than that. I too would love to go,but I’m going to sit back and wait until the whole thing is under control. Hopefully we will all still be around when it is finally done. So just calm down enjoy the trains you have now and when York finally starts up again we will all see each other and stand around and ***** about TCA and how they run things. Just remember it is a Toy Train Show.
@Mallard4468 posted:These are dancing on the edge...
Nobody ever accused me of being a good dancer 
For the record, I said I think the EDTCA made the appropriate decision based on the information generally available to them and the rest of the public. I'm glad that it was their decision to make. I ventured onto this ledge to respond to a comment that is no longer here, in a effort to calm the tensions by getting us back to firm footing where the vast majority can agree...two left feet, I suppose.
In the mean time, everyone stay safe. This forum is a great place to share our common interest in this great hobby. Here's to the next York!
Not surprised at all. I wouldnt be surprised if this wasnt entirely the ED's decision either. The fairgrounds, city or state of PA might have also weighed in on this. Its not just the fairgrounds that factors in. The hotels are probably not equipped to be packed, and the restaurants are not fully open. Having all of these people converge on York looking for food, lodging and other resources when they're not fully operational was bound to be problematic as well. That's, of course, on top of people's hesitation to go and be in a crowded indoor place for hours on end with people they dont know.
The smaller show 1 day shows and outdoor venues are likely to be the way it is for a while. The pent up demand for activities is certainly there, but it doesnt mean that all caution can be thrown to the wind either. Once the shots finally start flowing, hopefully some sense or normal will come back.
I booked my hotel for October's dates. Here's to hoping...
Not unexpected, but it still sings to have another York cancelled. I'm really hoping October happens, and happens safely. I can't believe that October 2019 was the last York for MTH, I was hoping one last hurrah this April for them. Lets stay positive and hope for a big return when York is next held. Until then, I will keep up my TCA dues and keep moving my hotel reservations six months at a time.
@Boilermaker1 posted:Having all of these people converge on York looking for food, lodging and other resources when they're not fully operational was bound to be problematic as well. That's, of course, on top of people's hesitation to go and be in a crowded indoor place for hours on end with people they dont know.
That is the question all of the show operators must consider above anything else. If you can get the states' OK to move forward, and the local businesses, but have no customers the show will quickly burn through cash and/or deposits.
Being based in the midwest, I don't know any of my train friends that are even interested in York and any type of in person train meet at this time and I'm not just talking about casual train guys, theses are people that schedule vacation time around York.
I do think there will be a rebound in social gatherings, but not like a rubber band snapping back. People will be much more calculated in their attempt to get "back to normal". This leaves the show operators holding the bag as to when to resume the various shows. That is not a gamble I would want to take with my money.
Charlie
The question now is whether the October York Meet will be scheduled for two or three days. That will be helpful to know for purposes of travel and hotel plans. I am hopeful that the ED will elect a three-day format. Certainly, there will be plenty of pent-up demand after three consecutive cancelled Meets to warrant that schedule. I'm sure that the ED will let us know their plan shortly.
Pat
Since Amherst Railway Society's Springfield in-person meet was cancelled last month and they decided to go for a virtual show on January 30 & 31, 2021, I have been practicing to participate as a vendor with my own Zoom Meeting. As much as possible and with some great coaching from OGR Forum members I am starting to get the hang of having a Zoom Meeting open every weekday from 10AM to 2PM (EST) on weekdays. Join in the link below to chat about your shadowbox and laser cut letter needs. Its kind of like chatting at a meet, except I'm in my shop and you are at you computer or showing me your layout with your smart device.
The daily weekday (M-F, 10AM-2PM EST) link is
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/8813...VGNsOWhaZ3YranB4UT09
Meeting ID: 881 3025 4125
Passcode: 296362
The link for my attendance at the ARS Springfield show this weekend, Saturday and Sunday from 9AM to 5PM, is
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/8255...Mnd0czl1WnhKZG9qZz09
Meeting ID: 825 5197 8039
Passcode: 373750
@TheRambles posted:It's Renninger's Farm Market for those who are interested. Some call it "Redneckers." As a local, I feel like I can say that.
I corrected my post. Thank you for letting me know of the mistake. Never went to this show but going in May.
@DaveSlie posted:There are other shows scheduled. Here is one west of Pittsburgh and south of Cleveland.
My wife just asked me less than a half hour ago if there are any shows/meets coming up. I told her the latest on the York meet and Greenberg show. Cancelled. I did not know about this show in Canfield. Thank you, Dave for posting. That is about the same distance as Monroeville, Pennsylvania from my home.
@irish rifle posted:The question now is whether the October York Meet will be scheduled for two or three days. That will be helpful to know for purposes of travel and hotel plans. I am hopeful that the ED will elect a three-day format. Certainly, there will be plenty of pent-up demand after three consecutive cancelled Meets to warrant that schedule. I'm sure that the ED will let us know their plan shortly.
Pat
No, the question is still whether or not there will be a meet at all. I wouldn't expect anything before August. I don't think Pa will lift the current restrictions until May at the earliest due to the pace of vaccinations. I don't think too many manufacturers would come to the current location with a mandated reduction in attendance. Due to fact the meet is run by volunteers I wouldn't expect a change of venue to accommodate everyone being outside is a viable alternative. I think August rolls around a decision gets made based on current restrictions in place at that time. At this point the 2 or 3 day question is putting the cart before the horse.
-Greg
Come on guys. We're only on page 2. I think if we pull together as a team, we can get this thread up to 8+ pages.
There will be more cancellations. Nothing will be returning to "normal" anytime soon. The big picture is simple to see: Vaccinations are much slower than the initial lofty predictions, large crowds indoors are still a bad idea, virus mutations are another concern, and I predict we will be dealing with this virus for the entire 2021 year. Doom and gloom...nope an unfortunate reality.
I was thinking fall 21 will be open. Fingers crossed.
DaveSlie and Mark, I went to the Dayton, Ohio train show this past Sunday at the Montgomery County fairgrounds. Small groups of two or three were let in intermittently, once inside, the show staff took a thermal reading behind my ear, everyone wore masks including vendors. One set of doors to enter, a different set to leave. Wider than normal aisles to navigate. I did not notice a food vendor but I wasn't looking either. This is probably what to expect in the near future at least at the Ohio shows. I didn't stay very long, not due to virus concerns but I just plain ran out of money. Three 2 rail locos tapped me pretty hard. Doug
@pc cr ns yard rat posted:DaveSlie and Mark, I went to the Dayton, Ohio train show this past Sunday at the Montgomery County fairgrounds. Small groups of two or three were let in intermittently, once inside, the show staff took a thermal reading behind my ear, everyone wore masks including vendors. One set of doors to enter, a different set to leave. Wider than normal aisles to navigate. I did not notice a food vendor but I wasn't looking either. This is probably what to expect in the near future at least at the Ohio shows. I didn't stay very long, not due to virus concerns but I just plain ran out of money. Three 2 rail locos tapped me pretty hard. Doug
Thank you for the information to give an idea of what we may expect. It sounds like you made out well in Dayton. Living in Pennsylvania, I was wondering if Ohio was a little more open for events like this than Pennsylvania. I know early on with the virus Ohio was more open, but we here were locked down because it was bad in Philadelphia even though we live over 300 miles from Philly. Thank you again
Just wondering....Please excuse me if this topic has already been addressed in this forum.
I have been visiting some of the "virtual" model railroad shows. While it is not the same as a regular show, I have found them thoroughly enjoyable.
One advantage, I think, is the vendors being virtual. They plan their presentations ahead of time and you can see all the details.
I could go on about the future of retail on a larger scale. The markets and mode of delivery are going through a shakeup all over the place. It's a good time to "think outside the box."
I too would like to go to York this coming Fall. I have a hotel reservation. Many times I try to think things through by looking at something from the opposite perspective. If you were a vendor, how ready would you be to expend the money and effort it takes to go to York when you really aren't likely to have much of an idea of what the crowd is going to be? And given the fact that we are generally dealing with small businesses, would you be willing to risk your health and the health of your employees?
One of the early reasons that Walmart gave for insisting on masks was that they couldn't open stores if the employees got sick. Think of how that applies to a small business. And as a group, we have consistently shown at York that we are not even capable of following the directional arrows on the floor.
Gerry
I quit signing up to sell at shows last February (2020).
Think about you as a vendor "facing" and/or talking to people for 6 hours or so. One bad sneeze or cough and . . .
Remember this is a coronavirus just like the common cold and the flu A, B, C and D. All of which seem to be surviving quite well for more than 100 years.
As Americans, our lifestyle, independence, and me first attitude has kept us at #1 for quite some time. Brazil, India, and Russia may never be able to match us on a per capita basis.
Thankfully most of our authorities are trying to look at the big picture for us and act accordingly.
Unfortunately, toy trains are probably not high on their list.
The notice below was posted on the TCA Eastern Division website. I found the last sentence of the notice very interesting. The dates of the October York Meet this year are: October 21, 22 and 23.
Pat
Also very disappointed.
I went to the last Metca show. It was a small show but I had a really good time. They did check my temperature upon entering the first time and a mask was required while indoors. I hope to attend the next show.
@Hudson J1e posted:Also very disappointed.
I went to the last Metca show. It was a small show but I had a really good time. They did check my temperature upon entering the first time and a mask was required while indoors. I hope to attend the next show.
Phil, it was nice to meet you there at the METCA show. I'm looking forward to the April METCA show. Like November, we'll be following the necessary guidelines, so it will be smaller than normal, but should be just as fun.
Stu
@NOT LionelLLC posted:Phil, it was nice to meet you there at the METCA show. I'm looking forward to the April METCA show. Like November, we'll be following the necessary guidelines, so it will be smaller than normal, but should be just as fun.
Stu
You guys probably passed each other about 10 times at our club Finally connected LOL
Very nice to meet you as well Stu.
Yeah, I believe I have seen Stu around at the NJ Hi-Railers or York. LOL
Bummer about no April show... Looking so forward to October York 2021!
GGGGRRRRRR
I doubt the meet will be a week long. The vendors now already gripe about the 3 day meet, imagine if they had to setup and get a hotel for a week! While I expect a 3 day meet, I suspect the EDTCA may have some activities that precede, take place at the same time, or bookend the actual York meet.
I'd be happy to be wrong though.
@MartyE posted:I doubt the meet will be a week long. The vendors now already gripe about the 3 day meet, imagine if they had to setup and get a hotel for a week! While I expect a 3 day meet, I suspect the EDTCA may have some activities that precede, take place at the same time, or bookend the actual York meet.
I'd be happy to be wrong though.
I'm really hoping Strasburg does something again this Oct like when they had 611 in Oct 2019. That was a lot of fun getting a tour and blowing the whistle plus riding behind her.
I think you are right, Marty! Encouraging folks to make a weeklong vacation or different parts of a week would help draw more folks back after this long drought.
Let the countdown begin.
263 days to York week!
@MartyE posted:...While I expect a 3 day meet, I suspect the EDTCA may have some activities that precede, take place at the same time, or bookend the actual York meet...
I'm sure that's the plan. I can't imagine ED taking on the additional expenses for hall rental, security, etc. for more than 3 days at the fairgrounds.
Cancelled my April reservations, and made October - cancellable, of course.
I may make the October 2021 York my first York show ever. Cancellation of the NMRA National, the March Meet and other shows that I usually attend is a heck of a way to save money but their cancellation will give me some York funds. NH Joe
As noted in my earlier post, the October Meet will be three days. The other activities during York week referenced by the ED are TBD, and will be ancillary to the Meet.
Pat
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